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PubPat Kills Four Key Monsanto Patents 436

IP Ergo Sum writes "PubPat's request for reexamination resulted in the rejection of four key Monsanto patents. According to PubPat, those particular patents were being used to 'harass, intimidate, sue — and in many cases bankrupt — American farmers.'"
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PubPat Kills Four Key Monsanto Patents

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  • Finally (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Cassius Corodes ( 1084513 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @02:29AM (#19980065)
    It's about time - but attacking the patents one by one is not a real long term solution, changes to legislation is the only thing that can fix the problem of frivolous patents.
  • by Bananatree3 ( 872975 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @02:29AM (#19980071)
    Monopolies are at best bad for the market, and at worst bad for Humanity. In this case, Monsanto's monopolizing has caused a lot of grief for many traditional farmers who save the previous year's crop seeds [i-sis.org.uk]. This kind of thing really makes me sick.
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrNaz ( 730548 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @02:30AM (#19980077) Homepage
    Yea, it's one step forward after the 2,401,323 steps we've taken back in the last few years!
  • Not done yet (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @02:45AM (#19980141)
    Rejections can be overcome by amending the claims. Also, rejections can be appealed multiple levels, delaying this for several more years.
  • by Whiney Mac Fanboy ( 963289 ) * <whineymacfanboy@gmail.com> on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @02:46AM (#19980143) Homepage Journal
    Patenting / copyright / other methods to articifially control something being copied are STUPID when applied to an entity who's sole purpose is to make copies of itself.
  • by 3.5 stripes ( 578410 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:02AM (#19980243)
    The problem is that the frankenfood spreads pollen just like the normal plants, you can't filter pollen outdoors.
  • by arth1 ( 260657 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:06AM (#19980265) Homepage Journal
    True, and it's clearly the responsibility of those who DO sell and grow GM food to prevent it from spreading. If they can't do that, why then they should not be allowed to grow it.

    (Allowing sexually reproductive GM life in the first place seems to me to be a Very Bad Idea.)
  • by jkrise ( 535370 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:23AM (#19980337) Journal
    70% of the Indian population is dependant on agriculture for their livelihood - it was closer to 80% a few decades ago. Monsanto has tied up with Indian companies, and it's business practices have driven several hundreds of farmers to debts and suicide. BT (Biologically Treated) cotton from Mahyco (if I remember right) has caused havoc in farmers' lives in several Indian states.

    Monsanto specialises in technologies that make farmers dependant on these firms every year for seeds and patented techniques. Not only should such patents be outlawed; it should be made a crime to work against nature and create genetic modifications that prevent seeds from germinating.
  • by beanless ( 1132589 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:39AM (#19980395)
    I've read reports of farmers being sued by Monsanto because their crops get contaminated by GM strains via wind, animals, or farm equipment. Could the farmers sue Monsanto for polluting their crops' gene pool?
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KillerCow ( 213458 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:40AM (#19980401)

    The little guy who grows the same crops as his grandfather had no problem to begin with.


    You're obviously not up-to-speed with Monsanto. What happens is that a neighboring field cross-pollinates, or some seeds blow off of a passing truck, and all of a sudden, your "grandfather's strain" has been contaminated with the patented Monsanto genes. Somehow, they test your field and they sue you. You can't argue with the DNA, so you are SOL and they shut you down, even though you never wanted their genes to start with.
  • by cliffski ( 65094 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:55AM (#19980449) Homepage
    in theory maybe, but farmers tend not to have the kind of finances or legal muscle required to take on a corporate entity the size of monsanto.
    Really, it should be the governments job to keep an eye on situations like this, but when the political parties are allowed to take corporate donations, the whole system is b0rked before you start.
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:1, Insightful)

    by terminal.dk ( 102718 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:57AM (#19980459) Homepage
    Nope, you sue the bastards for contaminating your crop. Trying to destroy what your family has been trying to breed to perfection for many years. The DNA does not lie. You can see who is behind the attacks.
  • Really? Why?

    Why isn't it the responsibility of the non-GM crops to prevent their pollen from fertilizing the GM farmers crops? If I breed a new strain of corn using traditional techniques is it my responsibility to make sure that doesn't fertilize anyone else's corn as well?

    Don't get me wrong I agree that GM crops should require more extensive testing before they are declared safe but the idea that they can never be declared safe is just absurd. Of course we can't ever know something won't hurt us but that doesn't stop us from making reasonable calculations about risk. Of course biotech companies shouldn't be allowed to shut down a farmer just because his crops happened to get pollinated by GM material (I have no idea if this really happens) but that's just saying that we should treat GM crops sanely.

    Any chance from the past is a risk whether it is faster computers (they might take over!!) or a new variety of crops. Dogmatically insisting that no type of GM crop could ever be safe enough to be worth the risk of letting it's pollen out into the wild is just silly.

    In other words what's wrong with just deciding about each GM crop on a case by case basis using the best available science at the time (including the certainty we have in that science)?

  • by kestasjk ( 933987 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:18AM (#19980547) Homepage

    frankenfood
    Frankenfood? You mean food that doesn't need to be sprayed with (as much) pesticide because it's biologically resistant to insects?

    Genetic engineers notice an organism that does something that would be useful in another organism. If possible they isolate the protein(s) that create the useful effect. They then isolate the DNA that expresses that protein. They then insert that DNA into the other organism, and the protein is subsequently produced in the other organism.

    Genetic engineering is just a way of putting useful proteins from one organism into another. Agriculture on a modern scale doesn't stand a chance without either genetic engineering or massive amounts of fertilizer and pesticide.

    Genetic engineering isn't "natural", but then again agriculture itself isn't "natural". If you consider genetic engineering a "frankenfood" what about the walking udders, walking fur coats, unnaturally sized fruits, bizarre inbred wolves, etc, etc. Just because that genetic engineering was done with artificial selection doesn't make it any less natural.

    If you want natural; starve, along with the billions of others that this planet couldn't naturally support. I have no idea what people have against genetic engineering. (Though I completely understand anti-Monsanto sentiment of course)
  • by jimicus ( 737525 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:23AM (#19980565)
    Monopolies are at best bad for the market

    The whole point of a patents system is limited monopolies to help the market. Without such a system, there's nothing stopping me from spending 10 years in a shed developing a revolutionary new vacuum cleaner, bringing it to market - and then you waltzing into a shop, buying one, copying it and selling it for half the price I do.

    The point of a capitalist society is that the "10 years in a shed" bit gets rewarded with a time-limited monopoly, so instead of simply putting up with the status quo and accepting that all vacuum cleaners suck (if you'll pardon the pun), I have an incentive to do something about it above and beyond "making my house 4% cleaner".

    Where monopolies do harm the market is where the system is abused. The obvious solution to that is a system which isn't terribly open to abuse. Many of today's patent laws were put together at a time when nobody imagined that a company might patent a genetically modified seed and then sue farmers for saving some from last years' crop for this year, or that a huge economy around software (which changes far faster than many other fields of innovation, and is thus not well served by 15-20 year monopolies) would develop.
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:4, Insightful)

    by donaldm ( 919619 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:26AM (#19980577)
    I think you as the farmer growing normal crops could sue (IANL) for cross pollination but from what I can gather genetically modified plants should not cross pollinate. I do think that the "law" would require the farmer to prove he was innocent since it very easy for the producer of the genetic strain to prove that the farmer has their strain.

    On a side note, From what I can gather the patent on GM grain is from 1994 (I thought it went further back than that) so there is still 7 years to go, however there are many groups and even nations opposing GM grains and other GM products. Monsanto really comes across as a company that does not care about anything except being a monopoly that controls all the world's food supply. It has even gone so far as patenting pigs http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/monsa nto-pig-patent-111 [greenpeace.org].
  • by sumdumass ( 711423 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:27AM (#19980583) Journal
    The output of the GM crops are that much better. Thats why. When you spend X dollars to plant on the finite amounts of land you have control over and can plant the GM crops that not only increase yields by 30+ percent but cut cost on the X figures by needing less chemicals or pesticides the amount of monetary advantage they present is almost insane.

    The people who are using the regular crops are traditionalist or people who see a use/market for the crops. Most of the people I know who are against the GM crops and are actually farmers are in that position because of the contracts and not any perceived threats from the genetic managment of the seeds. They don't like the idea of having to pay extra for seeds if they have a bad year.
  • Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)

    by timmarhy ( 659436 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:29AM (#19980593)
    the problem with this is patents main goal is to protect little guys who come up with a good idea and want to stop someone else stealing it.

    increasing the cost of something will never stop companys with GDP's larger then many countries. you think a million dollars for a patent on a crop is a problem? fuck bio research companys SHIT $1000000 bricks, they will view it as a minor cost.

    the only way to prevent frivolous patents, is to put a very short time frame on profiting from a patent. say i come up with an idea for the wear it all night condom. i have 2 years to turn more then $20,000 profit from my idea, or it's out in the public domain for someone else to have a crack out. this works because even if some asshole patents this, we can just wait them out, knowing their just patent squating and the moment their 2 years is up it's open season. If i CAN turn a profit on it, then it's obvious that i'm doing something with the idea, hence deserve it.

  • by ray-auch ( 454705 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @04:51AM (#19980677)
    If I breed a new strain of corn using traditional techniques is it my responsibility to make sure that doesn't fertilize anyone else's corn as well?

    Not normally - but then you aren't suing those others for having corn fertilized by your corn are you ?

    If you use a water sprayer to irrigate your land, is it your responsibility to make sure the water doesn't go onto my land ? Probably not. However, if you spray onto my land and then sue me for using your water, I ought to be within my rights to tell you it _is_ your responsibility to keep your water on your land.
  • by CmdrGravy ( 645153 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @05:01AM (#19980733) Homepage
    I can't think of any product which has Y and would really benefit from X but doesn't have it. In any case in that scenario the maker of product Y would license the patent for X so that they could use it in their product and the consumer would get what they want. This is why you can have MP3 players in one unit rather than companies selling the battery, the headphones, the decoder chip, the circuit boards all seperately.

    In a market without patents any new innovations or products would immediately be ripped off by the biggest company with the most money and manufacturing power and the original inventor would be screwed. Pretty soon people wouldn't share their inventions any more if they could actually keep the workings secret and if they couldn't they have trouble making any money from them so in the end no one would really bother.
  • Monstrous (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @05:06AM (#19980749)
    Everything about genetically modifying plants so they cannot reproduce, patenting the genes used to do this, then suing farmers that accidentally have those plants growing in their fields is simply monstrous.

    There is no surer sign that humanity's future is grim than corporations owning the rights to plants that humans grow for subsistence.

    They own the water, they own the mineral wealth, they own the forests, they own the food, they own everything there is to own.

    Truly, truly monstrous. That's the only word I can think to use to describe the situation.
  • by CmdrGravy ( 645153 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @05:08AM (#19980757) Homepage

    Organic farms also produce plenty of food in 3rd world countries - they're just not all of one sort of food and labour intensive (but labour is cheap in those places).


    I think the goal is that people don't have to live as cheap labourers working the land all day, this sort of work is not actually much fun and uses up people who could be working in factories and industry modernising the country and bringing all the benefits of cheap power, mass industrialisation, improved communications and travel.

  • by misanthrope101 ( 253915 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @05:14AM (#19980781)
    Well, if GM crops push out non-GM owned by you on your own land, you can sue the designers. If someone's non-GM crops push out your GM crops, you can sue the designer. That would be God, per the 90% of the population that believes in Him. Good luck with that. I hear the appeals process leaves a bit to be desired.
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrMr ( 219533 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @05:52AM (#19980965)
    You're probably both right: The EU treats unwanted GM-cross pollination as bio-terrorist rape, while the US considers anything that might reduce the profit of a paying supporter as an attempt to overthrow the best government money can buy.
  • Re:short-sighted (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NearlyHeadless ( 110901 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @05:55AM (#19980987)

    If GM crops nudge out the conventional ones, eventually we'll be in a position where a company can starve millions of people to death at will. Legally.


    That's just silly. There are lots of different kinds of seeds and lots of different kinds of crops. The patents in this case would all expire by 2011 even if they are eventually found valid.
  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @06:12AM (#19981065) Homepage
    Why do I feel the need to feed the trolls?

    Because there's a chance that you're making a sincere argument? Yeah, probably...

    If Monsanto's GM patented genes were "containable" then I would say there's good argument for your side of this. But the problem lies and always has lied in it being uncontainable. Accidents of all sorts have happened and worse. One of Monsanto's tests is to kill a section of a farmer's field. If it doesn't die, then it contains their GM patented genes. (If the witch floats...) There is pollination as a problem... the GM patented gene plants give even if they don't receive. And seeds ALSO have a way of blowing in the wind in the cases where the seed IS the product like wheat.

    But ultimately, there are far too many innocent people being harmed by this one corporation. This one corporation, by itself, has managed to harm humanity in ways that are simply unprecedented. If you truly believe that the value of money is of higher importance than that of the future of humanity, you need to rethink your position on this since the odds are good that you are also human.

    Just as patents on medicines are used to deprive people unable to pay for it from life, these patents on food are used to deprive people unable to defend themselves growing their own crops.

    There's an entire planet out here that doesn't care about "the value of a stock" and the systems of nature do no ask permission from lawyers.
  • by amber_of_luxor ( 770360 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @06:13AM (#19981067)

    f you want natural; starve, along with the billions of others that this planet couldn't naturally support.,/p>

    Enough food is grown on the planet for everybody to eat a healthy diet, without resorting to GM Food. Starvation is the result of not distributing food to where it can be used. Famines are the result of governments playing political games with their population.

    Amber

  • by Ihlosi ( 895663 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @06:51AM (#19981247)
    You mean food that doesn't need to be sprayed with (as much) pesticide because it's biologically resistant to insects?



    I think you meant to say: Food that can be sprayed a lot more liberally with herbicides because it's resistant to them.


    See Round-Up (tm) and Round-Up Ready (tm) seeds. Both by Monsanto, by pure coincidence, of course.

  • Re:Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) * on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @07:10AM (#19981343) Journal

    Yea, it's one step forward after the 2,401,323 steps we've taken back in the last few years!
    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. -Lao Tzu
  • by enrevanche ( 953125 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @07:13AM (#19981355)
    What a pile of corporate propaganda.

    Monsanto genetically modifies food so that it can get the farmer both ways, buying the seed and the tons of additional herbicide.

    We evolved in the same biosphere as insects, so changes to a plant to prevent the insect from being able to eat them may also have effects on us. These are not properly tested. They should require many years of observation on animals feed these foods for a long time before they should be allowed on

    None of these changes are tested properly. Monsanto is one the "Agent Orange" corporations. Their "research" cannot be trusted. They've lied when they knew about grave health issues with their product. They continued to sell it even though it caused substantial harm to thousands of GIs and probably millions of Vietnamese. (And this is the tip of the iceberg concerning Monsanto.)

    GMOs are designed for one reason, to make money. They do not care what the long term effect is as long as they can spin it. These foods are not designed to help the worlds poor, but to sell more product, to make farmers dependent on it, to add the food supply to the ever growing list of things that a few corporations control.

    This is all marketing hype, there is no need for GMOs.

    By the way, starvation is caused mostly by policy, not technology. There is more than sufficient food production. Maybe you should look into how the IMF & World Bank among others force third world countries into producing export crops, often even during times of starvation.

  • Re:Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) * on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @07:17AM (#19981387) Journal

    In all the cases that are cited in the PubPat press release [prnewswire.com] [prnewswire.com] the acts are intentional.
    That's the problem with patenting plants. Intention is a difficult thing to prove absolutely when you're talking about pollination. As we all learned from Jurrasic Park, DNA is a hard thing to control.
     
  • Re:victory! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jank1887 ( 815982 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @07:36AM (#19981491)
    but only if you consume 50 times your body weight over a course of 2 weeks...
  • by Shados ( 741919 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @07:51AM (#19981587)
    At first glance (I didnt read the article), I'd be saying the patents in question were american awarded ones, yes? If so, then it would be a bit hard to use said patents to hurt non-americans. In the same way if Monsanto had patents (maybe they do!) in, let say, australia, it would be correct to say they would be used to hurt and bankrupt australian farmers, no?
  • The problem (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jandersen ( 462034 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @08:08AM (#19981715)
    Having looked through some of the responses I can see that this debate has become one about GM as much as one about abuse of frivolous patents.

    GM first - the main problem I see with GM crops is not so much that "it is unnatural" and therefore harmful. Philosophically speaking, nothing we do is unnatural - it all follows the laws of nature, even if it isn't always good for us. That's an aside, though - the real problem is more one of genetic pollution. Never mind they say that it doesn't happen "very often", whatever that means; the basic idea with the gene modifications we see from the likes of Monsanto is to create a plant that has some sort of advantage, in a very narrow sense, over unmodified plants - once the modified gene escapes into the wild, which it will unless the modified plants are unable to reproduce sexually (and what is the point of corn that doesn't produce seeds?) - once the genes escape, we don't know what will happen. Perhaps the genes that were a moderate afvantage for a crop plant turns out to be a huge advantage for a wild species, and suddenly we have a big problem on our hands; we simply don't know, and we have no way of reliably assessing the risk. This however, is the least of the problems.

    The real problem, as Monsanto shows us, is that these patents it will be used as a weapon by multinational corporations; it gives them power far beyond what is reasonable, and on a very dubious foundation. The likely truth is that no matter which genes any company "invents", they already exist somewhere in nature; in light of this I think the law should be changed, at least for genes - either it should rest on the company to prove that their invention is a real invention, or it should simply be impossible to patent genes.

  • Re:Naaaah (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @08:56AM (#19982089)
    Intention is a difficult thing to prove absolutely when you're talking about pollination.

    Absolute certainty is not the standard, fortunately. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard in criminal cases, in civil cases the standard is even lower. Sure, enough seeds may have blown off a passing truck to seed 95% of his 50 acre farm with their crop, or perhaps pollen from a Monsato field pollinated 95% of his crop last year (despite the nearness of his own heirloom pollen 8" away). Except the fact that likely last year he planted Monsato crops and against his contract retained seed for this year (where the heck else did he get enough seed for planting his entire field?)

  • by TapeCutter ( 624760 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @09:05AM (#19982165) Journal
    I agree that the guy in all probability bred seeds from plants that surived in non-cultivated areas where he sprayed and he did this with full knowledge of what he was doing. However it seems to me that the judgement side-stepped intention as irrelevant. The way I read it (ok skim it) is that the undisputed fact the patented gene was found in the plants was enough to demonstrate infringement because he had "used" the gene. /IANAL
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by yoder ( 178161 ) * <steve.g.tripp@gmail.com> on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @09:13AM (#19982265) Journal
    "...while the US considers anything that might reduce the profit of a paying supporter as an attempt to overthrow the best government money can buy."

    Bingo!

    "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field." ~Albert Einstein

    "Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where they is no river." ~Nikita Khrushchev

    "The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." ~P.J. O'Rourke
  • FUD about GMOs (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MaizeMan ( 1076255 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @09:20AM (#19982347) Homepage
    >We evolved in the same biosphere as insects, so changes to a plant to prevent the insect from being able to eat them may also have effects on us

    Great, sounds logical. Until you learn that the CRY proteins expressed by bt crops crystalize into their toxic form only under highly basic conditions. Because we took different evolutionary paths for millions of years, our stomachs are highly acidic while insects stomachs are highly basic. On top of that you've been eating the CRY proteins on organic food for decades, as spraying with bacteria producing those proteins has long been considered an organic form on pest control.

    "GMOs are designed for one reason, to make money."

    Monsanto's GMOs are designed for one reason, to make money. Fixed that for you. ;) I've known a lot of scientists who've spent years and years developing crops with no commercial incentive (either crops that aren't grown in the industrialized world, or adding traits that are only of value to subsistance/small scale farmers). You can talk all you'd like about how starvation is a policy problem, but it's people who paint all genetic engineering with too broad a brush who're holding up the approval of crops like golden rice (4,000 children die of vitamin-A deficency every day) and virus resistant cassava. Its very easy to say there's no need for GMOs when you live in a country where most nutrition problems are caused by too much food rather than too little.
  • by TapeCutter ( 624760 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @10:05AM (#19982811) Journal
    Throughout the western world the board of directors of a publicly traded company are required to obey the (legal) wishes of the majority of the shareholders, it's not hard to guess what people are wishing for when they invest in the stock market.

    If you don't like the behaviour of company X then don't invest in the shares or purchase their products - the problem is that if you have superanuation or a pension fund then you probably have already invested in company X and if company X has a monopoly on the food/water supply it's kinda hard to avoid the product.
  • Ahh... you see my corn crops are natural, doing their natural thing. If a bee takes my pollen into your field - that's nature. If a bee takes pollen from your field into mine, it's theft?

    You are growing Frankensteins, keep them locked up.
    (Or we may just come to your house with torches)

  • Well Said (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Gr8Apes ( 679165 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @10:33AM (#19983083)
    That is an interesting take on it. In short, patents should be time specific to their domain. So, by this reasoning, software patents (if allowed at all) should have a maximum lifetime of about 2 years. That makes patenting software almost irrelevant, as the patenting time and costs exceed the value of the patent, since in 2 years the software has historically been obsoleted by the next version or 3.
  • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @11:50AM (#19984233) Journal

    Are you saying it wouldn't be so bad/unethical if the companies were harming non-Americans?

    US Patents only apply in the US, in other words, to AMERICANS. These US Patents have nothing to do with non-Americans, except perhaps very few immigrants, if you want to get pedantic.

  • by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @12:20PM (#19984681) Homepage
    I'll try to make this as simple as possible:

    Healthcare shouldn't be an "industry." It is and should always be a service. It's not a product and it shouldn't be a product. Health shouldn't be treated as a commodity to be bought or sold and certainly not the exclusive domain of the wealthy or the privileged. Technology and development of technology ultimately belongs to all of humanity. It is a "favor" that any given governmental body rewards those who develop things that benefit the world a temporary monopoly, but it is exactly when that monopoly is abused or used as a weapon to stifle other business, the rights of individuals, or otherwise adversely affect the world or mankind, then that monopolist should be stopped in some way.

    Business that serves people in delivering things that people need for survival such as healthcare and food should be held outside of normal business in that their practices do not follow the normal supply and demand market paradigm. The demand doesn't vary based on supply or pricing. There will always be a need for healthy foods. There will always be a need for quality healthcare. And to allow profit-seeking business to adversely affect peoples lives so that they can "protect their property" (which is ultimately given to them "by the people") is not just an immoral act, but an act against the interests of humanity.

    As the food industry goes, (the original topic here?) should Monsanto and companies like them be allowed to freely pursue their aims, it would remove healthy organic foods from the market place replaced by "patented foods" which can only be grown and produced with their permission and sold by their rules. All the while, they are completely escaping the collateral harm they are causing. There are links being made, for example, between GM foods and the decline in the bee population. (Bees are an indispensable and irreplaceable part of farming and the world's ecosystems such that the extinction of bees would mean the extinction of man quite literally.) There have been many other problems identified with the use of "disease resistant" and other durable forms of GM foods as well, many of which lead directly to health problems. But as choice for healthy food diminishes, (and the cost for healthy food goes higher) the quality of life diminishes as well... they are presently not being held accountable.

    "fortunately, the bootleggers take care of that"? Are you kidding me? Profiteering and illegal acts are a "fortunate" byproduct of an already humanity-abusive system?! Are you thinking your own thoughts to conclusion?

    I have failed in being brief, but only because I see this as a critical issue.
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @01:09PM (#19985421) Homepage
    WHO is going to sue the biggest agro conglomerate on the planet?
    WHO is going to shell out a minimum $5000 retainer to some lawyer just to get a consult?
    WHO is going to continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars at increments of $300 until the case is adjudicated in some lower court?
    WHO is going to continue to spend even more money if the first round doesn't go to the "little guy"?

    The family farmer is much like the garage inventor.
  • by WNight ( 23683 ) * on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @02:44PM (#19986717) Homepage
    It's ridiculous to patent the components of something that self-reproduces.

    Let Monsanto sit on it until they come up with a fool-proof way of keeping their seeds limited to those who buy them.

    I want millions, and I've written software that I'm sure would help Monsanto. Should I patent it then slip it into their company networks via a worm and sue them? Seems like a winning strategy.

    After all, if they hadn't wanted my patented software their IT department should have inspected every network packet, by hand if necessary...

    People who advocate patent/copyright extension are the biggest leeches/thieves in society today. Some thing may be hard to research without a known market (drugs, that the government regulates heavily) but for every semi-valid patent there are a thousand absolute liars patents XOR and cat entertainment via laser pointers.

  • Mod parent up. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MagikSlinger ( 259969 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:25PM (#19987193) Homepage Journal

    That's the scenario patent advocates love to trot out, but try offering concrete examples and statistics, not hypotheticals. (Such as how patents allowed James Watt to retard the progress of the steam engine for decades, perhaps?)

    I'm glad someone brought that up. When the patent expired, the efficiency of the steam engine shot up (see parent's link). And without patents, people still innovate because they need to make a buck. They just find other ways to get more value out of their invention. One way is old fashioned "trade secrets". As your product hits the market, the secret will eventually be reverse engineered but you have time to make your cash. More importantly, you have the time to produce something better than the other guys who have to play catch-up.

  • by jsebrech ( 525647 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @03:55PM (#19987593)
    If you scrap the whole thing you're left with only the negative effects and none of the positive ones which people are currently enjoying.

    Not true. If you scrap it, you remove all the costs involved with the patent system, like ineffective markets, delayed introduction of some categories of products (especially software is delayed strongly under the influence of a patent system), and spurious litigation by patent owners.

    You're assuming that the current system has no positive benefits at all which I believe is not the case. I agree the patent system is open to abuse, particulary in the area of software but I also think a lot of people have used the patent system in the way it was intended and reaped benefits from it.

    Let me put it like this: what study or source of reliable data do you use as a basis for your idea that the patent system is a net benefit to society?

    I am in fact personally in favor of scrapping the patent system, because I've never heard anyone make a sensible case for why it should be kept. Yes, it has benefits, but those benefits come at, to me, a greater cost than they are worth. You don't need a patent system to have innovation. A free market will force people to innovate or fall behind. And for those things that aren't profitable without monopolies: put them in the hands of government. If you're going to have an inefficient mandatory monopoly, let it be one that people can vote out of office rather than one they have zero control over.
  • Re:Naaaah (Score:2, Insightful)

    by armareum ( 925270 ) on Wednesday July 25, 2007 @06:25PM (#19989309)
    I'm surprised a Trekker with mod points hasn't modded you 'Troll' yet. He never actually said those words!

Suggest you just sit there and wait till life gets easier.

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