Compound From Olive-Pomace Oil Inhibits HIV Spread

Researchers in Madrid are claiming that they have discovered that a type of wax found in olive skin can help to slow the spread of HIV. "Their work shows that maslinic acid - a natural product extracted from dry olive-pomace oil in oil mills - inhibits serin-protease, an enzyme used by HIV to release itself from the infected cell into the extracellular environment and, consequently, to spread the infection into the whole body. These scientists from Granada determined that the use of olive-pomace oil can produce an 80% slowing down in AIDS spreading in the body."

And it's a good fat too

[gbulmash]

Rachel Ray finds another use for Eee-Vee-Ohh-Ohh.

- Greg

Re:And it's a good fat too

[rob1980]

Yum-o!

OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it means.

[SatanicPuppy]

She uses it to fry things, which is a big "WTF?" if you know anything about olive oil. The whole point of extra virgin olive oil is that it's a lighter more flavorful oil, and it's usually substantially more expensive. Use it in a salad dressing or as a condiment, drink it straight out of the bottle like the Greeks do, but don't fry in it, jesus! It doesn't even have a very high smoke point, compared to refined olive oil.

It's like frying something in sesame oil, or flaxseed oil, or any other oil that you ca

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh? I (stir) fry with sesame seed oil all the time - BECAUSE of the taste.

Re:

[dreddnott]

I fry/saute with extra virgin olive oil - "First Cold Press", the glass bottle claims. It's imported, I live in the United States of America. It's delicious!

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[spun]

Sesame oil at least has a high smoke point. Does Rachel actually fry stuff in extra virgin olive oil? That's just plain stupid. The high heat of frying ruins the taste and creates nasty, harmful compounds. I mean, regular olive oil is a bad choice for frying, let alone EVOO.

And in case anyone doesn't know, EVOO traditionally means the first oil to run off from the first pressing. Virgin olive oil is the rest of the first pressing, and other olive oils come from the second and subsequent pressings. EVOO has

Re:

[Nasarius]

Does Rachel actually fry stuff in extra virgin olive oil? That's just plain stupid. The high heat of frying ruins the taste and creates nasty, harmful compounds.

I don't think the OP meant deep-fry, but rather saute. Personally, as I'm deathly allergic to peanuts, I do like to cook with cheap olive oil. But anyone who does that with extra virgin (even the fake stuff) is an idiot with way too much money.

Re:

[spun]

Oh. Yeah, sure, saute in olive oil. For those who are unsure of the difference, sauteing happens at a slightly lower temperature than deep frying, and the foods are only half covered by the oil. It is also important in sauteing that the food is not crowded in the pan, sauter means 'to jump' in French, and the food should have room to jump about in the pan. If it is too tightly packed, you are in effect simmering or steaming instead.

Re:

[spun]

Reread my comment. I said sesame has a high smoke point, which is true. From the wiki page:

Cooking. Sesame oil carries a premium relative to other cooking oils and is considered more stable than most vegetable oils due to antioxidants in the oil. Sesame oil is least prone, among cooking oils, to turn rancid. This is because it has a very high boiling point. In effect, sesame oil retains its natural structure and doesn't break down even when heated to a very high temperature. Also it has a good reputation for being safe to the heart just like Olive oil and Sun Flower oil. Because of this, it is ideally suited for deep frying.

I said peanut oil is good for frying. I mean, honestly, you are wrong, sesame is good for frying, but I would never use it pure! It imparts too strong a flavor and is too expensive, but it actually is very good for frying because of it's high smoke point. For frying up Asian foods, say crispy pork for sweet and sour, I often use an (approximate) 8-1 mixture of peanut to sesame oils.

Re:

[binarybum]

Try grapeseed oil - can get it at your local asian market, has a very high smoke point, it's quite healthy, and imparts very little flavor - but just enough to taste in something very mild like tofu - and it tastes good!

That's RAPE-seed oil.

[crovira]

No wonder its called Canola oil these days.

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[SydShamino]

Of course, in the U.S., EVOO is defined by acidity, so you're not buying real EVOO at the stores, just regular refined oil with a low acid level.

If someone in the U.S. is buying Hi-Vee brand olive oil, they deserve what they get.

There are plenty of stores that sell European olive oil in the U.S., where the label not only says "Extra-virgin" but also says "from the finest first-press olives only" or somesuch.

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[binarybum]

but you certainly can buy real EVOO at the stores. There is plenty of excellent EVOO available in the states.

Re:

[heinousjay]

No! You can't possibly! If it's in the US it must be inferior to anything European! Go read your Slashdot handbook immediately.

Re:

[Pharmboy]

You forgot to add the reason: Because we Americans are all like Jethro Bodine and don't appreciate the difference anyway.

Re:

[Pharmboy]

I entertain Europeans regularly, and most are thrilled to get a decent steak, stating that European beef is just bland and plain (I agree). And these are business owners and rather affluent people who would eat in the finer places. I guess all our harmones and antibiotics make our beef tastier. Our pork and poultry also kicks their asses, likely for the same reasons: Ours are healthier with the extra drugs they ban there.

They also like California wines (similar in quality to French). They do, however,

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[vic-traill]

Cold Press - First Cold Press, baby. Everything else on the label is just spin.

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[Ed Avis]

The 'extra virgin' classification doesn't mean very much now, if it ever did. It essentially means it comes from the first pressing of the olives. But with modern machinery, the first pressing can extract a large amount of oil. In some countries most olive oil produced counts as extra virgin, with lower grades made in smaller quantities. So it's not exactly a waste to use it for frying - it often isn't much more expensive than lower-grade olive oil.

You are right that chemically it may not be well suited

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[spun]

Not just his, but outside the US, everyone's: the first run off from the first pressing of a batch of olives. It contains the purest oil and the least amount of olive solids. The olive solids create acidity, but that is by no means the proper measure of virgin or extra virgin status.

What did you think it meant?

Re:

[spun]

Reading the wiki page, low acidity is a criteria. First pressing is also, but the one we both missed is: no chemical treatment or refinement of the oil.

Re:OT: E.V.O.O doesn't mean what she thinks it mea

[Synchis]

As mentioned in a subsequent reply, Extra Virgin Olive Oil refers to the very first Oil taken from the first pressing of olives, and traditionally has nothing to do with the oil's acidity.

In the states (and I presume canada) oils go through processing to remove impurities, kill bacteria, etc... and so whats labelled on a store shelf as extra virgin olive oil, really isn't, in the traditional sense. This is also why most north american olive oils are shipped in clear plastic containers, instead of opaque glass bottles. Traditional EVOO is light sensitive, and should be stored in opaque glass or metal cans to preserve the best flavour.

But yes, frying in EVOO is ridiculous. I use Peanut oil to fry in, and to season my Cast Iron pans (the best non-stick pan you'll ever know). :)

Re:

[SatanicPuppy]

Yep, everyone before me is right. The only thing I want to add is that there is actually a group that decides what oil actually fits in what categories: the International Olive Oil Council [internatio...iveoil.org]. All IOOC member nations (the US isn't one) have to abide by their standards in labeling olive oils. By their standards, there can be no refined oil in either EVOO or just plain VOO.

Just one more example of the FDA's obsession with pasteurization and processing. What a country...Can't get unpasteurized cheese because it m

Re:

[norton_I]

Lots of people get sick or die from food poisoning. Nobody to my knowledge has died from GM foods, irradiated foods, or growth hormone. There are no scientific studies that show negative effects from the first two.

I find the occasionally excessive enthusiasm for pasteurization annoying, but it isn't like there is no reason for it.

Re:

[SatanicPuppy]

They are way over enthusiastic...Slow pasteurization or no pasteurization for certain things is acceptable as long as it's clearly labeled...Not everything needs to be nuked to fricking death. People die from undercooked meat as well, but if I'm going to have a fillet, I'm not going to cook it brown just to save myself a tiny bit of risk. What the hell is the point?

Likewise, I'd rather be able to make an informed choice about the origins of my food...GM vegetables aren't a big concern of mine, other than th

Re:

[ElectricRook]

I'm not going to cook it brown just to save myself a tiny bit of risk.

For steaks, the most likely location of contamination is the outside. So a surface browning is sufficient.

If you've ever disassembled an animal, you know why (it's a messy operation). With ground meats, the surface contamination is mixed through the whole body of the meat.

For that reason, I'd rather buy ground meats frozen.

Re:

[NewsWatcher]

OK, I am with you on GM food and irradiated food, but growth hormone? CJD is a fatal disease [unisci.com].

As for pasteurisation, people should surely have the choice whether they want to be able to eat cheese made from pasteurised milk or not.

"It isn't like there is no reason for it".

Perhaps there are good reasons to pasteurise, but you ever tried cheese made from raw milk? These cheeses taste better and when it comes down to it, if I wanna take a risk, surely it is up to me to decide.

Re:

[Noehre]

Iatrogenic CJD is caused by natural hGH harvested from cadavers, not rhGH made in a lab.

I'm pretty sure they don't use cadaver hGH anymore.

Re:

[mrbooze]

500 degrees seems awfully high for many oils.

Olive oil can be perfectly safe for frying:
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/May /23/il/FP705230314.html [honoluluadvertiser.com]

Pomace oil, particularly, is commonly used for frying in parts of the world.

Re:

[0100010001010011]

Let your 'friend' know that animal fats work best for cast iron. Most vegetable oils tend to get gummy. A good hunk of lard does wonders

hmm.

[apodyopsis]

..and works as a lubricant too? :-)

my, thats handy.

Re:hmm.

[Rakshasa Taisab]

My hand does not have HIV, so i fail to see the relevance.

Re:hmm.

[Lockejaw]

..and works as a lubricant too? :-)

If you use it that way, it may increase rate of HIV transmission -- remember, folks, condoms are soluble in oil.

Re:

[drinkypoo]

Actually yes, any old oil will dry out latex, that includes corn oil. But there are also polyurethane and vinyl (eew?) condoms.

HIV is not AIDs

[MSTCrow5429]

I'm skeptical. The source article, by stating "these scientists from Granada determined that the use of olive-pomace oil can produce an 80% slowing down in AIDS spreading in the body," conflates HIV with AIDs. You can slow down the spread a virus, such as the human immunodeficiency virus, in the body. You cannot slow down the spread of a syndrome, theorized not as caused directly by HIV, but by opportunistic infections as a result of HIV infection, in the body; only said opportunistic infections.

Re:HIV is not AIDs

[Chris Burke]

Yeah, the opportunistic infections have an opportunity because of HIVs effect on the human immune system. Reduce the spread of HIV, reduce the effect on the immune system, reduce the opportunities of opportunistic infections. Pretty simple if you ask me.

I don't think that a layman's article conflating HIV with AIDS -- not an unfair layman's conflation, considering that there is at least a causal relationship between them even if they are not the same thing -- should inspire such skepticism.

Re:

[Chris Burke]

I think you're conflating the word conflation with some other word, since you never pointed out what I'm conflating "the fact that the conflation he was pointing out (i.e., that the article conflates HIV with AIDS) is a serious conflation and is a little more significant than a layman's conflation which would not conflate the specifics to non-laymen who would understand and appreciate such a conflation" with.

Re:

[Elemenope]

Ah! Recursion burns!

Re:

[Chris Burke]

Are you sure you aren't conflating recursion and fire? I did once, and my attempts to pop the stack did no good.

Re:

[Elemenope]

Are you sure you aren't conflating recursion and fire? I did once, and my attempts to pop the stack did no good.

The. Best. Computer. Science. Joke. Ever!

Re:

[iamacat]

HIV directly infects brain, causing dementia and, if you take anti-viral drugs that do not cross blood-brain barrier for long enough, probably death. AIDS patients are much sicker than those taking immunosuppresant drugs after a transplant. Opportunistic infections are only part of the story, you would die from AIDS even if you lived in a sterile glass bubble.

Re:

[Otter]

There doesn't seem to be a paper yet, but the guy has a serious publication record and doesn't seem prone to publicity stunts. Probably it's the usual case of a university PR office hearing "HIV" and going nuts with the press release.

Correlation != Causation

[L. VeGas]

I suspect it's more likely that individuals with a slower-than-typical HIV growth after infection from the virus are the same individuals that really, really like olive-pomace oil.

Occams razor and all that.

Re:

[Lockejaw]

How can they tell which petri dishes of cells like olive-pomace oil? Should they make them fill out a survey?

skeptical at best.

[Brigadier]

I'm always skeptical of these third world countries scientific claims of some miracle cure usinging some natrual substance. i recently went to a seminar given by a recruiter for one of the larger universities in the Caribbean. I was flabergasted to hear them making claims of there findings as far as avocado curing aids and other such BS. The fact is though ambitious i'm sure they lack the level of technical abilities and testing proceedure to make a truly scientific claim. Flame me if you want but this is

Re:

[Kelson]

I'm always skeptical of these third world countries scientific claims of some miracle cure usinging some natrual substance.

Wait... Spain is a third-world country?

Re:skeptical at best.

[Chris Burke]

I'm always skeptical of people who classify Spain as "third world".

Re:skeptical at best.

[roman_mir]

Well, it's not one of the States, it must be the 'third world'.

Re:

[Chris Burke]

You have no idea where Universidad de Granada is, do you? Hint: Granada, Spain, a "First World" NATO country. TFA even says it's the medical branch in Madrid. You know where that is? Hint: also Spain.

Re:

[marcello_dl]

I'm always skeptical of these third world countries scientific claims of some miracle cure usinging some natrual substance (...) I'm sure they lack the level of technical abilities and testing proceedure to make a truly scientific claim.

But this is illogical. Scientific doesn't mean accurately measured, it's a matter of method. A Fermi problem's solution is not unscientific.

Back to the topic, verifying the effectiveness of a cure for AIDS doesn't necessarily involve a pretty color image of a neutralize

its NOT in the Extra Virgin Olive Oil

[G4from128k]

Olive pomace is the left-over skins and fruit pulp for the first pressings of the olives. Secondary treatment of the pomace with steam and solvents extracts the residual oil and also extracts this seemingly beneficial oil/wax.

Ironically, the cheaper grades of olive oil probably have more of this oil.

Re:

[suv4x4]

Ironically, the cheaper grades of olive oil probably have more of this oil.

Why "ironically". Do you intend to use food olive oil to prevent HIV next time?

The irony of NOT Extra Virgin Olive Oil

[G4from128k]

It's ironic because most people, including some of the early posters, associate high-quality, high-price, extra virgin olive oil as being "more healthful" than the cheap stuff. I'd wager than more than few victims of HIV/AIDs are buying extra virgin oil on the news of the experimental result in hopes of stemming the progress of their illness.

It's ironic if oil extracted with chemical solvents is actually more beneficial than the pure, traditional, cold pressed oil.

Correlation

[Brian Cohen]

I noticed that eastern Mediterranean countries that produce a lot of olives [wikipedia.org] have a lower incidence of adult HIV [wikipedia.org]. Not to imply that there is causation, and I know that other factors are at work, but I still found it interesting.

Pickles.

[C10H14N2]

Scandinavia has the lowest rate in the world, Iceland beating everyone save North Dakota, which is populated nearly exclusively by Viking stock. Across Europe, there is a very strong correlation between latitude and HIV infection rates that roughly follows the increasing tendency toward pickling of both sustenance and self.

If anything, it ain't the oil, it's the vinegar.

Re:

[moosesocks]

Which is interesting, because you'd tend to think that descendants of Northern cultures would have weaker immune systems, given the fact that viruses tend to thrive in warmer climates.

Italians?

[Zarjazz]

So how come the home of Olive oil, Italy, has one of the highest infection rates in Europe? http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/hiv-aids/hiv-aid s-infection-rate-by-country-europe-and-the-new-ind ependent-states/ [overpopulation.com]

extra virgin?

[192939495969798999]

What's an extra virgin? the /. regulars should know, right? hey-o!

Re:

[Dachannien]

Ironically, most extra virgins don't have to worry about slowing down the spread of HIV in their bodies.

in South Africa, this has been known for ages :-(

[r00t]

Guys there believe that sex with a virgin will suck the HIV out of their bodies. Very young girls, even babies, are frequently raped for this reason.

Cool, but you know *somebody* will read this as...

[FlyByPC]

"If I eat olive oil, I won't get AIDS."

Re:Cool, but you know *somebody* will read this as

[Tackhead]

> "If I eat olive oil, I won't get AIDS."

His tongue's strong to the finish,
'Cos he eats more than spinach,
He's Popeye the Slashdot-man!

test tube works better than clinical

[peter303]

There were lots of promising anti-HIV and anti-virals that were promising in the petri dish, but failed in clinical application. Hope this one is a clinical success.

AIDS Cocktail

[EnsilZah]

Does this mean the AIDS Cocktail will now come with an olive in it?
Shaken, not stirred?

*Ducks*

Tags

[Khyber]

How the hell are we supposed to run a decent site when stories get tags such as the ones for this story? Slashdot becomes digg more and more each day with this childish nonsense.

Similar to Monolaurin for Herpes virus

[Theovon]

Monolaurin is an extract from coconut milk that is used to kill herpes virus strains including Epstein-Barr.

The thing that bugs me about all of this is that most MDs don't seem to know about these things. MDs want to put you on toxic antivirals from pharm companies, when you can take something just as effective and nontoxic to humans like monolaurin.

If you're interested, see the Medicinal properties of the wikipedia article. "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_milk"

NOT published or peer-reviewed!

[posterlogo]

None of the news blurbs about this research mention any sort of publication associated with these findings (for example: "published in this week's issue of Science", etc.). Also, a quick search in pubmed for garcia-granados shows limited publications in specialist journals, nothing nearly as flashy as this olive-oil HIV thing. My guess is they haven't published yet, or even had their paper reviewed yet. Most respectable journals embargo press releases until the issue of the journal comes out in which the findings are reported. This could certainly be interesting, but for now I would take it with a grain of salt, especially the part about "the use of olive-pomace oil can produce an 80 per cent slowing down in AIDS spreading in the body." WHAT body?? There's no way this treatment is in human clinical trials. This statement is pure baloney. Judging from their publication record, the Garcia-Granados lab is purely an organic chemistry/biochemistry lab. I seriously doubt they have any data with mammalian models.

Re:

[posterlogo]

"The effects of this compound in the fight against AIDS are simultaneously being studied in the UGR and in Hospital Carlos III in Madrid by a team headed by Prof. Vallejo Nájera."

Well, that's where they're doing the human trials, though I can't imagine how they could be doing this so fast... maybe the clinical trial system is different is Spain.

There are 2 main vectors for HIV/AIDS...

[MadHungarian]

Yes, it is a nasty disease, a friend of mines 25 year old son was recently diagnosed with it. And a very gifted pianist I know has had it for several years. I have a lot of sympathy and compassion for anyone with this terrible disease. But that said, there are two simple rules...

1. Don't share needles if you are a drug user.
2. Sexual contact - use a condom.

If everybody followed these simple, common sense rules, there would be no HIV/AID epidemic.

Re:Please help me understand this.

[evanbd]

Yikes, there are so many problems with this arguments I don't know where to begin. But, whether you're trolling or not, it's a commonly stated one, so I'll answer it (at least in part).

Regardless of how you define "moral behavior," many cases of AIDS are spread through "moral behavior." People get it from their spouse, when neither of them knew the spouse had it. The spouse might have gotten it from a previous partner, or a blood transfusion problem (fortunately rather rare now). What about the child who contracts it from their mother?

Whether sex outside of marriage is moral or not is a matter of personal interpretation. Certainly much of society views it as normal. Many people have a single monogamous relationship at a time, but more than one through their lifetime. Is that so immoral that we should condemn them to die because of it?

There is no evidence of "recruitment" by homosexuals. Rather, there is a mounting body of evidence that people become homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual as a result of factors beyond their control -- both genetic and environmental. This, combined with ample of evidence of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, would seem to imply that homosexuality is quite natural -- and that therefore the classification of it as immoral is a rather odd invention of mankind.

As to why AIDS gets so much funding -- it's a horrible disease, with a near-100% fatality rate. It infects a staggering number of people. It is currently busy depopulating much of sub-Saharan Africa (where, by the way, the primary mechanism of spreading is between married partners and from mother to child). Diseases that are epidemic in scale, have exceedingly high fatality rates, and which we don't know how to cure should scare anyone. Hopefully all this research will be helpful if another such disease appears.

Re:

[Johnny Mnemonic]

It is currently busy depopulating much of sub-Saharan Africa

You might be interested in this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti c le/2006/04/05/AR2006040502517.html [washingtonpost.com]

How AIDS in Africa Was Overstated

Reliance on Data From Urban Prenatal Clinics Skewed Early Projections

By Craig Timberg

Washington Post Foreign Service

Thursday, April 6, 2006; Page A01

KIGALI, Rwanda -- Researchers said nearly two decades ago that this tiny country was part of an AIDS Belt stretching across the

Re:

[Lorkki]

This, combined with ample of evidence of homosexuality in the animal kingdom, would seem to imply that homosexuality is quite natural -- and that therefore the classification of it as immoral is a rather odd invention of mankind.

Ouch. Citing naturalism as a basis for any ethical argument is really just asking for trouble. Ethics are a property of human societies, and you can find practically endless numbers of examples from the rest of nature that support either socially acceptable or condemnable behavio

Re:

[evanbd]

Actually, I agree with you. Naturalism as a basis for ethics is severely flawed. Ethics ought to take a logical approach, based on goals and principles. It does, however, have some basis when it comes to morals -- rules handed down from authority as opposed to derived from first principles. If your argument is "homosexuality is immoral because God said so" then the fact that animals engage in the behavior is relevant -- after all, God created them that way, they didn't have free will to choose it. The

Here is why

[backslashdot]

The HIV virus is a very interesting virus. Of all the common viruses, it is one of most deadly and the hardest to cure. It kills millions of people every year. Which other virus is doing that? Please tell me. This is why it is interesting for study. Most of other infectious diseases people are dying of can be cured with antibiotics, but people never get them.

When the next viral pandemic hits, we want to make sure we know all about how to quickly and effectively deal with it.

Cancer and heart disease do get more funding than AIDS (as they should). Although it's pretty sad that I have to mention this .. you should know that curing AIDS will save many heterosexual and monogamous women's lives in Africa (you and your preacher should be interested in that right?). These are innocent women who's husbands cheated on them with prostitutes. Also importantly, treating AIDS will enable children in Africa to grow up with mothers and/or fathers.

PS> Why don't you stop hating? The venom is eating away your rational thoughts.

Re:Here is why

[eln]

Of all the common viruses, it is one of most deadly and the hardest to cure. It kills millions of people every year. Which other virus is doing that? Please tell me.

Not caused by a virus, but how about malaria? It not only kills millions of people a year but has severe economic impacts, because even if it doesn't kill you you can get it over and over again. It's hard to develop an economy when a huge chunk of the people are sick most of the time.

Malaria and AIDS in concert are great contributors to the overall sense of hopelessness and the inability to sustain a functioning society that plagues much of Africa. They are both exacerbated by poverty, and in turn exacerbate poverty, making it much more difficult for people to lift themselves up.

Finding cures for malaria and AIDS would probably do more for the overall global economy than anything else could.

Re:

[doktor-hladnjak]

I can't remember where I read it, but I did read something not too long ago about how being HIV+ affects severity of malaria and how malaria affects contraction of HIV+ and progression to AIDS. Basically, once you get one, it becomes much more likely that you'll get and have more medical problems faster with the other one.

Re:

[dgatwood]

Of all the common viruses, it is one of most deadly and the hardest to cure. It kills millions of people every year. Which other virus is doing that? P

The HPV virus. It has been linked to multiple varieties of cancer, including cervical cancer and various skin cancers. I don't know exact death figures, but they're in the upper tens of thousands, I believe, and were it not for early detection and advanced cancer treatments, would also be measured in millions of deaths per year.

Not saying HIV isn't im

Trolly trolly troll troll.

[SatanicPuppy]

It's because we like immoral behavior; if it only affected religious zealots, we'd add it to the water supply.

I just love how so many so-called Christians can be so happy to watch other people die. Whole buncha stone throwing fake christians in the world today.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate all religious people. Just the holier-than-thou hypocrites who talk about god while imposing their narrow-minded world view on everyone else.

Re:Please help me understand this.

[Ironix]

I'm a homosexual and I've been HIV+ for 11 years now. Lucky for me, I'm one of the small percentage of people with whom the virus seems to have a difficult time spreading. As such, in those 11 years I have yet to take any medication.

Now with that out of the way, I must stress that as a homosexual I am completely and utterly uninterested in converting ANYONE to my lifestyle. Nor have I ever in my 13 years of being 'out' even tried to 'convert' anyone. I would think that you would find this true of most any homosexual that you'd care to talk to.

With that said, I have yet to collect a toaster oven.

Re:

[Y-Crate]

Do you mind if ask whether or not you experienced Acute Retroviral Syndrome after your initial infection (to your knowledge, anyway)?

In light of your body's natural resistance, I'm curious to know if HIV came charging in, replicating like crazy, before got knocked back to where it is now, or simply made a small foothold and went on from there.

Re:

[CrankyOldBastard]

One reason why there is so much funding devoted to HIV/AIDS research is that the economic costs of the disease are so high. Then if you consider the social costs of a large proportion of the population being orphaned, the cost of research is paltry by comparison.

I have to point out as well the contradiction in the phrase "homosexuals are indoctrinating your children and making them choose their lifestyle" - you can't make someone choose something, although you can make particular choices more likely by

Re:Please help me understand this.

[element-o.p.]

Dude, I'm Christian too, but seriously -- comments like this are entirely counter-productive. Let me dissect your, and I use the term loosely, "logic" point by point:

1) Quote: Why does AIDS get such a huge amount of funding?
Perhaps because it is a truly horrible disease that brings a boatload of suffering to millions of people around the world?

2) Quote: Other diseases kill far more people every year...
True. Do you think no one is working on them?

3) Quote: ...and most of them aren't caught by immoral behavior.
Is AIDS/HIV only caught by immoral behavior? Back in the late '80s, there was a huge story on the news about a kid in Florida (IIRC) who caught AIDS from a blood transfusion (this was before screening blood for HIV was as common as it is now). In what type of immoral behavior did this kid engage? How about EMT's, paramedics, doctors, nurses or other good Samaritans who contract AIDS while attempting to render assistance to someone else who has AIDS? If you are a paramedic or E.R. nurse, can you tell for certain which of your patients is "moral" before supplying medical care? Or would you just prefer to let everyone care for themselves?

4) Quote: The pastor at my church says it's the gays promoting their choices as normal behind all this.
The problem with conspiracy theories is that it requires everyone involved in the conspiracy to carry the secret to the grave. Most people can't keep a secret. Ergo, conspiracies of the magnitude you are describing tend to be very, very rare.

5) Quote: The homosexuals are indoctrinating your children and making them choose their lifestyle. They can't reproduce so they have no choice BUT to recruit. They are forcing the government to back their behavior with laws... Laws against God and Jesus.
Like I said above, I am a Christian, too. I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle for the same reasons that you don't agree with it. But I'm also the first person to say, yeah, I've made mistakes in my life, too. I'm no more or less perfect than the very people you want to turn your back to, and neither are you. You say God gave laws prohibiting homosexuality. He also gave laws prohibiting adultery. Do you remember the story in the New Testament where the Pharisees wanted to stone the woman "caught in the act of adultery&quot? Do you remember Jesus' answer? "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Now let's take this one step further. What do you think is a Christian's purpose on earth? Somehow I doubt it's to work hard five days a week, sit in a pew on Sunday morning, buy a big house and a nice car and watch the world turn. I suspect it has a little more to do with telling others that they can be freed from the screwed up lives we tend to live when left to our own devices. If that's the case, then do you think someone is going to listen to you if you start out by telling them that, because of their own immorality, funding to cure the disease that is slowly taking their life away should be canceled? How callous is that? On the contrary, I think a true Christian -- someone who really lives the life modeled by Jesus -- would instead be rushing to the sides of the AIDS victims in an attempt to reach them with the gospel before the end of their lives. If researchers can develop a drug to buy you more time to reach such a person, a Christian should be all over that.

The pastor at my church says you should hate the sin, but never the sinner. That , in my humble opinion, is pretty good logic.

Re:

[pembo13]

I hope you all don't believe someone who actual goes to church wrote that, right?

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[Weirsbaski]

The pastor at my church says it's the gays promoting their choices as normal behind all this. Two Sundays ago he said (and I quote as I remember it well) "The homosexuals are indoctrinating your children and making them choose their lifestyle. They can't reproduce so they have no choice BUT to recruit. They are forcing the government to back their behavior with laws... Laws against God and Jesus."

Yes, government says that beating the shit out of gays "just for fun" is wrong, and that's the proof that gay

Re:

[geekinaseat]

Seriously... doesn't slashdot have any mechanisms to ban users who are consistantly racist/anti-homosexual and generally offensive on here? I realise that every one of this guy's posts have been modded down to -1 and therefore rarely get seen but this kind of offensive behaviour should not be tolerated. Thats my 2 cents anyway.

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[ampathee]

If you ban him, he'll just create a new account.
All his posts are quickly modded down, and you can add him as a foe since he's not banned and therefore creating new accounts (and give foes a -5 modifier).

1984. Thoughtcrime. Crimethink.

[r00t]

The fundamental human right to have and express an opinion is rather endangered these days.

Europe lost it a long time ago. Merely expressing the opinion that the Holocoust didn't happen will put you in jail in many European countries. France is not a free country. Germany is not a free country. I think Austria and Belgium are on that list too, among others.

In the USA, you can still express irrational hatred, but this causes you to be unfairly punished for minor crimes. For example, suppose you hate black pe

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[demon driver]

Legally, the denegation of facts is not necessarily a right according to the freedom of opinion or speech, see libel.

Analyzing the path from the Weimar Republic to Nazi Germany, which included continued hate-speech propaganda which was not been properly dealt with by the authorities, democratic post-war Germany (and other European countries) made laws banning hate-speech which would be classifiable as "incitement of the people" ("Volksverhetzung"), in order to hamper such developments in the future.

There ar

Re:

[Ant P.]

Wouldn't just taking the warning labels off everything solve this problem?

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[anakin876]

Would you really call that pretty easily? When you consider th level of technology and whatnot - I would imagine it's kind of complicated.

you got that research wrong

[r00t]

It's not exactly "each male child has a higher chance of being gay than the previous one".

It's consecutive male children. Granted, a woman with only 2 kids can't have 3 males in a row, but there isn't much difference between 7 kids and 12 kids.

Either way, this suggests that homosexuality is NOT genetic. Since the research used adoption cases to rule out the family situation, the womb environment is suspected, particularly the mother's immune system. In other words, it's a birth defect. (there is no rule tha

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[doktor-hladnjak]

What's to say being gay is a defect though? Similarly, personality has complex environmental and genetic components, but we don't claim reclusive computer geeks (for example) are defective. Well, at least not around here.

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[Otter]

The only experiments described are in cell cultures. (I.e. the stuff is dumped directly on cells in in a dish.) The "can produce an 80% slowing down in AIDS spreading in the body" seems to be just wishful thinking at the moment.

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[packeteer]

haha, homophobia is funny... NOT!

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[cculianu]

How did you catch HIV? Was it IV drug use? I only ask because I think it's exceedingly rare to catch HIV through straight sex -- I know like 15 HIV+ people (a friend of mine works in a clinic) and it's funny because to us we wonder who the straight people are that get it. It's almost always homosexual males that practice anal sex or IV drug users.

Just wondering.

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[doktor-hladnjak]

If you look across the entire world, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of people who are HIV+ (and especially those dying of AIDS) caught the disease through heterosexual sex. Europe and North America are exceptions to the rest of the world, although even in those places the share of infections from heterosexual sex (particularly among non-drug using black and hispanic populations) continues to climb.

a rather evil suggestion

[r00t]

It is not sane to trust a flimsy latex membrane to save you from horrible diseases that can kill you.

It is not moral or ethical to suggest that somebody trust their life to a condom.

Sure, it may work most of the time, but "most" is nowhere near good enough. You can accept "most" when the consequence is something like losing $1000, losing your job, a broken arm, a dead pet, etc. It's not good enough for human death.

What makes the suggestion really evil is that most people don't understand probability, let al

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[doktor-hladnjak]

Of course you're assuming that if the condom fails, you will get definitely HIV, which is a faulty assumption.

You really need to multiply that 1% (the chance of failure) by the chance that you'll become infected from a known positive partner (depends on the act but even receptive anal sex is about 1 in 50 or 2%) by the chance that your partner is HIV+ in the first place (varies greatly by population but even among gay men in big cities it's about 10%). So instead of 1%, you're looking more at something lik

No, it's not

[phorm]

You have to pass all these obstacles:

- Have an infected partner
- Have a broken condom
- Actually contract AIDS from the exposure

Now in most cases, if you knowingly have encounter the first obstacle and proceed with sex, protected or not, you are knowingly engaging in a heavy risk. Multiple partners of course increases the risk of being unknowingly exposed, so knowing your partner is a bit thing, but adding protection to a known partner does greatly reduce risks.

99% protection is still pretty damn goo

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[r00t]

I'm just being generous with the 99%. Mostly I've heard 80% to 90%, sometimes 70% or worse.

The numbers vary because not everybody uses condoms correctly every time. People are quite bad about it actually. When counting failures, do you count only the cases where the condom was properly used or do you also count the times it failed because the user was a horny idiot fumbling around in the dark?

Nearly all of us think that we are not that idiot, just like nearly all of us think that we are good drivers. We can

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[r00t]

Note that 99% is absurdly optimistic if it only includes condom failure. I chose that number on purpose, being generous and simplifying things.

If you want to argue over details like chance of infection with unprotected sex, then I'll take back my 99%. Real world condom success, including the problem of many people who mess up, is far lower. (be careful: many condom-related numbers wrongly exclude incorrect usage)

Shall we go with 70% instead?