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Biotech Science

New Drug Helps to Dampen Bad Memories 255

wile_e_wonka writes to tell us Researchers at Harvard and the Montreal-based McGill University are working on a drug that would allow psychiatrists to dampen painful memories in their patients when combined with therapy. "They treated 19 accident or rape victims for ten days, during which the patients were asked to describe their memories of the traumatic event that had happened 10 years earlier. Some patients were given the drug, which is also used to treat amnesia, while others were given a placebo. A week later, they found that patients given the drug showed fewer signs of stress when recalling their trauma."
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New Drug Helps to Dampen Bad Memories

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  • by joto ( 134244 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:07PM (#19744851)
    Would you like a drug?
  • by jt418-93 ( 450715 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:14PM (#19744947)
    it's important to remember the bad times, so you don't end up there again. something about those who can't remember history repeating it.....
  • by Himuanam ( 852822 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:17PM (#19744983)
    The most traumatic thing most of Slashdot has experienced is having their parents turn off their internet connection, come on, all we're going to get is comments about alcohol or how we're becoming a drug-obsessed culture. Experience something *really* traumatic or know someone who has, and you'll see the benefit of research like this.
  • Right... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by p3d0 ( 42270 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:25PM (#19745075)

    it's important to remember the bad times, so you don't end up there again. something about those who can't remember history repeating it.....
    Yeah, those rape victims really should try harder next time not to get raped.

  • by MikeFM ( 12491 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:38PM (#19745181) Homepage Journal
    Yeah, for some of us that'd set us back to prenatal mindsets. I think Eternal Sunshine was convincing enough that doing this is a bad idea. IMO there is just about nothing as bad as someone you cared about forgetting you.
  • by dave420 ( 699308 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:48PM (#19745279)
    Or what about folks who kill themselves because they can't live a day without being caught up in bad shit that's happened? They won't have a chance to learn from their bad times, as their bad times will have killed them. I'm not having a go at you, but bad memories aren't always afterschool-special-type memories, but often some really fucked up shit that reaches down to every atom in your body and flatly refuses to let go, even slightly. Stuff like this drug might actually help some folks try to live a normal life again.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:48PM (#19745283)
    Quote: "if you clear the symptoms with mind numbing drugs, it means you just suppressed the symptoms, not removed the actual cause."

    I hate to say this, but you can't change the past.
  • by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:49PM (#19745285)
    How does a drug target specific memories? Or does it simply make you an emotional brick?

    I'm always wary when I hear things like that. Drugs that change your mental framework. We don't know jack about the brain, to be blunt. LSD has been out for decades now and we still don't have a clue just how that stuff works. Yet we keep cranking out more pills for "mental" problems.

    Why do I also have the feeling that this pill would only suppress the traumatic experience instead of making people deal with and resolve it? Is that the new medicine? Instead of curing, we treat. Which is incidentally also more profitable, because a cured person is just that, cured. Doesn't need more medication. Treatment, though, can take months, years, decades or however long you want. And for the whole time, he keeps swallowing tablets and gets his shots.
  • by Tim C ( 15259 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:54PM (#19745341)
    Self-medication is done without training or regard for potential damaging side effects. Self-medication with alcohol and other narcotics also generally has a social impact as well as a negative impact on the user's own life.

    When a trained medical professional prescribes a drug, you have to assume that the drug itself has been through a rigorous testing and approval process, that the medic is well-trained and completely aware of what they're doing, etc. (I know that's not always the case, but it's far more likely than in the self-medication scenario)

    Basically, if you self-medicate, especially with alcohol or narcotics, you're far more likely to fuck up than if you take a prescribed drug.
  • by trolltalk.com ( 1108067 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:56PM (#19745359) Homepage Journal

    "I don't see how a chemical that supresses feelings that need to be felt is going to be at all beneficial to a trauma victim"

    Past a certain point, the feelings don't need to be felt - they're a barrier, not a character-builder. By reducing the associated stress, maybe the person is able to be less afraid look closer at what happened, and gain new insight?

    We do it with mood-altering substances all the time, from "comfort food" to chocolate to booze, etc. All legal. Sugar has a tremedous impact on your mood - just look at any hyper kid on a sugar high - and yet I don't see people recommending we starve people because food can alter your moods.

    I'd say lets do some more testing and see what happens.

  • PACIFY (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hoggoth ( 414195 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @01:58PM (#19745373) Journal
    'Ok, Mr. Jones. How do you feel now?'
    'I feel wonderful...'
    'Do you still feel outraged when you think of our government controlling your life?'
    'No, it really doesn't bother me that much.'
    'What about this protest meeting you are organizing?'
    'Oh, that. I know it should be important, but I really don't feel like going anymore. I think I'll stay home and plant some flowers.'
    'Good, Mr. Jones, you may go now.'
  • If reality is perception

    It isn't. This is easily demonstrated by beating a coma victim to death. They won't perceive your actions, but they'll still die. If you really want to try the schroedinger's cat falling in a forest line of things, make a robot do the beating. The coma victim will in fact die without being measured.

    and the basis of perception is memory

    It isn't. There are a variety of individuals with brain injuries that impede or destroy memory. They can still perceive you, and remarkably, they're often still able to function to a degree in the real world.

    are you changing your personal reality

    There's no such thing as a personal reality. Put down the Led Zeppelin, and if you're well educated in Philosophy, climb out of the barrel. You can make all the solipsisms you want, and yes, it's particularly difficult for me to convince you that I exist, when you can just claim that every sense by which you're detecting me is faulty.

    That said, this isn't The Matrix, and you can be affected without being aware of it. As the old saying goes, the bullet you don't hear is the one that killed you.

    and in effect, changing who you are?

    This ... is a difficult point. On the one hand, yes, in many ways we are created and defined by our experiences. On the other hand, though, in many ways we aren't. Consider for example that thing that Ripley's Believe It or Not always does when they're out of material, where they find two twins who were seperated at birth, and point out how they wear the same kind of clothes and the same teeth are missing and their girlfriends both have the same weird deformities and whatever.

    Are you removing part of who you are? Maybe. But, look, what about if you lose your fourth toe? You lost a little bit of who you are there, too, and you're a different person for it. Sure, it's a trivial tiny difference, but it is a difference. These things have a scale. I was changed as a person when I got my elbow injury. Not in a huge way, sure, but it's real. I stopped working out because the stress on my elbow is no longer safe. I used the scar to impress each of two different girls.

    So, you remove a traumatic memory. Does that change a person? Sure. But, then, change isn't always a bad thing, and there's such a thing as changing back - or, at least, there may be now. Consider the case of someone coming back from a brief tour in war, with shell shock. They can't talk, they can't sleep, they scream every time there's a loud sound, and seeing a gun on TV leaves them crying for hours. Don't laugh; there are people who were wounded psychologically in just such a way.

    Say you could remove those memories. Say that turns them back into (almost) who they were before the war. Is that a change? Yes. But maybe you might do better to think of it as a "change back." This drug is apparently thought of for trauma. Rarely is it the case that those changes caused by trauma are beneficial. I'm no psychologist, but can see the case for this maybe becoming an important tool in repairing serious psychological damage.

    Is the only cure for trauma personal metamorphosis?

    Of course not. People come back from trauma every day. That there are other ways, though, doesn't mean that this way isn't important. There are something like 30 ways to remove an ulcer. Half of them are in use today. One might expect there to be only one, but the human situation is complicated; sometimes you need to do it through the mouth, sometimes through the butt, sometimes with a remote control robot, sometimes by just opening the stomach.

    Different situations need different solutions.

    I can understand that there are people who are so traumatized by past events that they require medical attention but is effectively erasing those events from memory the best solution?

  • by zombie_striptease ( 966467 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @02:16PM (#19745557)
    Pissed because p3d0 made a valid point? Fine, forget the inflammatory wording and concentrate on the content: there might be some traumas that aren't constructive or character building. Sometimes, bad shit just happens, without any sort of silver lining. Would you look down on someone for needing help coping and finding it in a treatment like this?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @02:42PM (#19745793)
    This is about disconnecting the emotional baggage that has engrained the memory so deeply that it causes dysfunction in a person's life. People experience trauma and war and torture and rape and they have memory so tied to high emotion, they have flashbacks and agoraphobia and paranoia after lots of reasoned therapy. These drugs don't change the memory or the valuable lessons that bad memory imparts. It just lowers the emotional ties that can turn bad memories into disassociation and lifelong dysfunction.

    Some of these arguments against this type of therapy are barely better than the puritanical arguments that lead to undertreatment of pain.

  • by AutopsyReport ( 856852 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @02:47PM (#19745825)
    Ok, I'll bite. I know your half-joking but as someone who has a wealth of traumatic experience under my belt, I do not see the benefit of this research.

    Me and my extended family combined have been through suicide, two rapes, abortion, divorce, infidelity, homelessness, and a slew of other things that many people face, but many do not. I don't consider myself unlucky or unfortunate. You're probably thinking I come from a wrecked family or live in a poor part of the country, but the opposite is true. I come from a very solid family. We are all good, successful people that have made poor bad decisions, had bad things happen unexpectedly, or a mixture of both. Many of the ordeals we've been through are terrible to imagine, deal with, and recover from. Drugs would have temporarily aided, but they wouldn't have provided a lifelong solution to dealing with the problems.

    It's the decisive moments where you put the spurs on and kick your own ass through a problem that builds character, experience, and a willingness to push forward with life. Drugs are not a solution to navigating your way through the shit life throws at you. Your compass is the willingness to use hard work, patience, forgiveness and toughness to continue moving forward.

    People that fall back or remain stagnant for long periods of time after a terrible experience do not have the power to move foward; drugs will not aid in gaining this force.
  • Re:Right... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @03:18PM (#19746195)
    Look, while nothing justifies a crime, people can place themselves in danger in foolish ways. Suppose I was mugged late at night walking through a bad part of town. I sure hope the police catch the bastards, and the judge better not give the muggers a smaller sentence "'cuz I was asking for it" but all the same it was dumb for me to have been there.
  • Re:Right... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grasshoppa ( 657393 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @03:19PM (#19746205) Homepage
    Yeah, those rape victims really should try harder next time not to get raped.

    No one likes to say it, but often times rape victims should have known better.

    Go out with the guy that other girls warn you about? Sure, why not. They must be jealous is all.
    Walk down a dark alley in a bad neighborhood? Sure, what could possibly happen?

    I am not saying these things are their fault; The sick fuck who did it deserves to have his balls chopped off for it. What I am saying is that, from a rational perspective, if you can learn from your previous mistakes you won't repeat them. This obviously doesn't apply to people just minding their own walking down the street, which is a smaller subset of overall rape victims.

    Women; Learn how to defend yourselves. A knee to the groin will usually disuade the most aggresive attacker, and pepper spray is always a hit at the parties. You are in control in that confrontation; The attacker has just convinced you otherwise. Don't let him.
  • by splatter ( 39844 ) on Wednesday July 04, 2007 @10:58PM (#19750013)

    hum, seems to me back in college I found this.. Oh Yeah it's called Pot!

  • by howlinmonkey ( 548055 ) on Thursday July 05, 2007 @07:46AM (#19752567)

    As a person who has a wealth of traumatic experiences, I have to say that you couldn't be more wrong. I have experienced abuse, neglect, abandonment, extreme poverty and more abuse. I have also lived with depression for most of my life. I have attempted suicide, hurt myself, and lived long stretches where I was barely functional because of this illness.

    I am sick of hearing that depression, or other mental illness, is somehow a character flaw. I am beyond tired of hearing that I, and others like me, need to "kick our own ass" and get up and get moving. I am sorry that you had such difficult experiences, but it is obvious that you do/did not suffer from anything like depression or PTSD because of them. Drugs have been a form of salvation for me, allowing me to live without the lingering effects of the awful things I experienced. I am able to function normally as a husband and father today because of drugs.

    Before you go spouting off your Ayn Rand self-reliance, pull yourself up by your bootstraps BS, understand that the experiences of other might be different from your own. Count your blessings that you were able to survive without medication or other intervention, but refrain from judging those of us who are "weaker", and need the help.

  • Re:Right... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by grasshoppa ( 657393 ) on Thursday July 05, 2007 @09:47AM (#19753401) Homepage

    Speaking as someone who has worked the doors, messed around with lots of martial arts, and known some of the foremost self-defence experts in the world, that's complete shit. You have obviously never been in such a situation.


    Never been in a rape situation? True. Never been in a situation where I needed to take someone out of a fight? False. It has been my experience that, unless some serious drugs are involved, a knee to the groin and some pepper spray usually disuade any male from doing pretty much anything for the next 10 or so minutes.

    It is extremely difficult for a woman to fend off a serious attacker.

    Only if she believes that.


    Pepper spray is also next to useless. A better option is a spray can of WD40 at the eyes. I'm told that's very nasty, and effective.


    Speaking as someone who's been hit with pepper spray, I don't buy it. Even those around the initial impact area experience breathing problems and have a hard time getting their eyes open.

    I can't speak for WD40; But whatever works.

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