Nanoglue Could Be Used To Make Spiderman Web-Shooters

Stony Stevenson writes "A team of US researchers is using the super-adhesive properties of nanoglue to create a super-sticky web-shooting device much like the comic-book hero Spiderman's. The nanoglue is also being trialed in the production of computer chip circuitry and is expected to miniaturize the process, meaning faster and more powerful chips. From the article: '"If we can find a way to create threads and/or intertwined bundles using the molecules in a scalable fashion, while retaining the adhesive properties, then creating web-shooters similar to Spiderman's is a real possibility," Ramanath said. "There are ways in which molecular threads/bundles can be created in large quantities. The challenge will be, however, to simultaneously engineer adhesion on certain surfaces (and not others, since we want the suit only to form on the desired surface) and also with each other during the thread formation."'"

Important application

[0.693]

Nanobukaki

huh

[omeomi]

Well, glad *that's* finally solved. Now, on to cancer...

Re:

[evanbd]

Actually, that's the whole point. Did you ever hear of anyone Spiderman ensnared dieing of cancer? OK then.

Original Journal Article

[westcoaster004]

Actually, this article seems to miss the point. Ramanath's research on this was just published in Nature (abstract) [nature.com] and actually has far more application to bonding chip microstructures than to web-slinging!

Here we harness MNLs (molecular nanolayers) at thin-film interfaces at temperatures higher than the MNL desorption temperature to fortify copper-dielectric interfaces relevant to wiring in micro- and nano-electronic devices. Annealing Cu/MNL/SiO2 structures at 400-700 C results in interfaces that are five times tougher than pristine Cu/SiO2 structures, yielding values exceeding approx20 J m-2

While I do somewhat agree with the sentiment of the above poster that 'there are more important things that we could be working on', I think that it would be fair to remember that not ever scientist is suited to work on every project - to work on "cancer" (as it is so broadly put) you need certain kinds of scientists - i.e. biochemists, molecular & cellular biologists, organic & medicinal chemists, and pharmacists in order to do direct research on cancer. This fellow (G. Ramanath) is a materials engineer, and thus would be ill equipped to doing cancer-curing research.
However, it should be noted that the ability to DO cancer research is only made possible by discoveries in other areas of science - physics (radiation therapy, imaging methods), engineering (devising machines to test for and to visualize cancerous growths), chemistry (new ways to make and deliver drugs), materials science (better materials to do all of the above!) , computing science (imaging, modelling), and biochemistry & biology (understanding cellular processes) by those who are not aiming to cure diseases, but whom seek to advance the limits of human knowledge and understanding. Creating a better glue just happens to be one such advance that may help indirectly.

Re:huh

[Plutonite]

Mountain climbers fall suddenly off dangerous slope, traditional equipment fail, spiderman web used in last second and lives saved.

Large fire in the city, building collapsing, people inside, spiderman web used to clear obstacles inside without getting close. Lives saved.

Priorities are great, but human diseases are not everything.

Re:

[LordVader717]

Dr. Octopus attempts to blow up Manhatten. Nanoglue Man saves the day!

Re:

[omeomi]

Priorities are great, but human diseases are not everything.

Yeah, it was a joke...I thought it funny that some scientist somewhere might have a to-do list that went something like:

1. Take out garbage
2. Invent Spiderman-web slinger
3. Cure Cancer

Re:huh

[Cadallin]

Would you people please grow up. For one thing, the "Cure Cancer" meme needs to die. There is never going to be a magic bullet solution to cancer, because cancer refers to large and diverse class of diseases that really only share one trait in common. That being the anomalous and detrimental growth of new tissue. Some cancers are causes by Viruses, some by other diseases, some by exposure to radiation, some are caused by genetic predisposition. Work on the treatment of any of these diseases requires an exceptional command of highly diverse and complex fields of knowledge. By and large, the people can contribute generally are, and the ones who aren't directly are usually working in related fields that may serendipitously lead to major breakthroughs. Get over it.

And secondly, are you seriously suggesting that humanity should give up all other pursuits in order to work on this problem? There are other diseases you know. And other problems that face humanity. Besides that, how do you know that this project, as frivolous as it may sound, may not produce some knowledge that will contribute to the treatment of disease?

Re:

[FlyingSquidStudios]

Is it used for sending men to the moon?

Re:

[KIFulgore]

Yeah, well I heard "they" already have a cure for cancer, they're just milking us for billions of dollars in stone-age medical care.

Re:

[untaken_name]

Well, there's a lot more money to be made in 'treatment programs' than 'cures' anyway. Not that I'm saying all doctors are bad people or anything. However, look at the cost of one AIDS patient's 'treatment plan' for one year. Over $180k. They could NEVER get away with charging $180k for a cure...and you don't have to take a cure for 4-5 years, the average amount of time someone is on an AIDS treatment plan. I can't say for sure that pharmacos don't really WANT a cure....but the lack of one and the presence

Re:

[Cadallin]

How much do you know about the way the AIDS virus works? That problem is so much harder than putting a man on the moon its insane.

Look, I'm no friend of Big Pharma. Personally, I think all medical research should be government funded and the results public domain. All drugs should be generic.

I strongly suspect that curing AIDS at all may be impossible. It would take something on the order of 100% effective nanomachines that flood through the bloodstream killing all virus particles in the body, and

Re:

[Eivind]

I strongly suspect that curing AIDS at all may be impossible. It would take something on the order of 100% effective nanomachines that flood through the bloodstream killing all virus particles in the body, and searching through the genomes of all cells in the immune system and excising the HIV genome. That's how hard the problem is.

I agree the problem is tricky. But you're overstating it. Impossible is a huge word. Consider what we trivially do today that would certainly have been classified "impossible

Re:

[Cadallin]

Of course, creating reverse chirality people carries with it the risk that someone might create reverse chirality viruses, but I think its significant to note that that is essentially the only way viruses would ever be able to affect those people. They would be immune, by nature to every naturally occurring virus on the earth, from the common hold, all the way up to HIV. They would also have some fairly strong resistance to any bacterial infection that relies on nutrients in the host being of a specific c

Re:

[Eivind]

Of course, creating reverse chirality people carries with it the risk that someone might create reverse chirality viruses, but I think its significant to note that that is essentially the only way viruses would ever be able to affect those people.

They could also, in principle anyway, arise naturally. One way-chirality viruses have afterall, so there's no reason reverse ones couldn't. Other than that there's currently no suitable hosts for them. But if a large fraction of humanity was infact reverse-chir

Re:

[Cadallin]

There are a number of nutrients that we are unable to synthesize that have chiral centers. Amino Acids are the big one. All proteins except glycine (glycine has two identical Hydrogens on the chiral carbon) are chiral. Basically its safe to assume that any large molecule that is a necessary nutrient is probably chiral. This does present a problem, yes, in that food from natural plant or animal sources would be severely lacking in vital nutrients (and in many cases poisonous) The real life equivalent wo

Re:

[Eivind]

Yeah. It's another case of the same thing. You're thinking in terms of "likely to happen", and I do agree that naturally arising viruses with reverse chirality may be quite unlikely to happen. But in the extreme case -- life arose once, with *this* chirality. Assuming that chirality really is pretty much a random thing, there's no reason it couldn't arise again -- with oposite chirality by chance.

One earth there's the sligth problem that such life would then have to compete with existing life which has ra

Re:

[untaken_name]

Well, it just goes to show you - people shouldn't create viruses they can't kill. (cue the next round of flames)

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

So, basically you're saying that everyone in the pharmaceutical industry is a sociopath involved in a giant conspiracy to keep AIDS cures off the market. Not one whistleblower has come forward to leak the news of this alleged "cure" because?

Not one company will break ranks and put a "cure" on the market, even though they're engaged in cutthroat competition with each other, because?

Hint: this kind of conspiracy mongering says more about your own character and mental status than it does about your target.

Hint

Re:

[untaken_name]

You should learn to read. Failing that, you should learn to think. You're the one that made up the 'conspiracy' theory. I'm just saying that it makes more business sense to charge someone a lot of money every year to treat something than it does to sell them a one-time cure. Do you not agree with this statement? If not, please tell me why. Otherwise, shut your ignorant, conclusion-jumping, superior attitude-spewing cockhole.

Re:

[KIFulgore]

I'm glad you put that out there so the conspiracy theorists can read it!!

That said, I was being facetious ;). I actually studied virology for 2 years in grad school.

Re:

[Eivind]

Yeah. But only in a noncompetitive market. There is *very* little treatment for N-1 companies to make in selling 'treatment programs' for a disease the moment the last company has a 'cure' on the market.

Which unfortunately doesn't match todays climate -- there is very little real competition on hard problems. Because the problems are hard enough that there simply isn't a lot of companies on the planet that can even hope to have a chance of solving them.

Aspirin and similar generic, easily-producable, unp

Re:

[omeomi]

are you seriously suggesting that humanity should give up all other pursuits in order to work on this problem? There are other diseases you know

No...it was a joke...I thought it funny that some scientist somewhere might have a to-do list that went something like:

1. Take out garbage
2. Invent Spiderman-web slinger
3. Cure Cancer

Materials Science

[dreamchaser]

Yes, because we all know advances in materials science have never benefited anyone.

Re:

[kc-guy]

Like the cure for cancer, AIDS is a common banner to rally around, although 25 million people have died of AIDS since it was first recognized in 1981, while malaria causes disease in approximately 400 million people every year. (Wiki AIDS and Malaria)

Everyone has their pet projects, and each can be argued as more important than the other, but in the end technology intended for one purpose benefits other areas as well.

This excludes NASA's research, which has produced nothing of applicable scientific or medic

It's not

[pjt33]

Okay, so I haven't read the article, but the summary strongly implies that where it says "is using" it means to say "hope someday to be able to use".

Re:

[localman]

Ah yes, very easy to criticize the priorities of others... especially as we sit and argue the fate of the world here on Slashdot :)

Why not each of us working on a cure for cancer?

Re:

[omeomi]

Ever hear of a joke?

Re:

[localman]

No, you?

Re:

[Jeff DeMaagd]

What do you think a person with talents in the material science can do with cancer? That's about as dumb as going into McDonalds and asking the cashier why she isn't out curing cancer - because biology might not necessarily be where her talents lie.

Sounds like they have some sticky problems ...

[Mostly a lurker]

... to solve

Not a sure thing yet, but...

[css-hack]

"If we can find a way to create threads and/or intertwined bundles using the molecules in a scalable fashion, while retaining the adhesive properties..."

Alright, so it sounds like they're just using the spider-man analogy because it sounds cool... but if it's even remotely possible that I'll be swinging from buildings any time soon, just tell me where to throw my money!

*Disclaimer: as a starving student, I actually have no money to throw, but a guy can dream... right?

actually...

[wizardforce]

Well, glad *that's* finally solved. Now, on to cancer...

well actually now that we have this super nano glue we can make better computer chips which make faster computers which biochemists can use to simulate proteins/enzymes involved in cancer so that is the idea... but really the spiderman thing does seem kind of silly now until you realize the awesomeness of swinging around places:)

Re:

[Bender0x7D1]

Don't underestimate the importance of being able to suddenly swing into different places. [xkcd.com]

Re:

[revengebomber]

...but then we thought, hey, let's use it for games!

Re:

[M8e]

In facist US of A, you sticks to nanoglue.

Compression

[Glowing Fish]

The most unrealistic thing for me about Spider-Man's web shooters for me was always the amount of compression that would have had to occur. I don't think there is any way to get hundreds of feet of rope inside of a container a few inches around.

Although since there was so much other knowledge of physics that had to be suspended, I managed to let it ride.

Re:Compression

[Bender0x7D1]

That's because you are assuming that the web is some sort of solid "rope". However, there are a lot of things on the market today that can expand to many times their original size. For example, there is expanding foam insulation that ends up many times larger than when it was applied. If the web was some sort of expanded "mesh", instead of a solid rope, you could get quite a bit of webbing inside the container.

Re:

[Glowing Fish]

Yes, a lot more, but not as much as Spider-Man uses.
When he swings, every strand is what, 50 feet long or so? And he might use dozens or even hundreds of those between having to change. So that is anywhere from 500 to 5000 feet of rope, strong rope, inside of an inch wide canister. It doesn't seem likely. Slightly more likely than "unstable molecules", but still.

Re:

[The_mad_linguist]

Maybe it also reacts with air as its formed, which means not all of the strand is contained within the can.

(Now I'm sure *some* comic book geek is going to point out how Spiderman used webbing in space or something)

Uses the bodies own saline/fluids

[spineboy]

I often thought that maybe it used part of his bodies own interstitial fluid as part of a binary mixture. That way when Spiderman uses a lot of webbing, he becomes dehydrated, and just needs to drink more.

Re:

[Mr. Bad Example]

> However, there are a lot of things on the market today that can expand to many times their original size.

One of these things is in my pants.

Re:

[Tablizer]

I don't think there is any way to get hundreds of feet of rope inside of a container a few inches around.

Store the liquid in a big codpeice with a hose to the arm. Maybe inside phoney pectorials also. And, it'll help spidey get laid.
           

Web strings compressed into a few inches

[Derling Whirvish]

I don't think there is any way to get hundreds of feet of rope inside of a container a few inches around.

You can do it easily. You create the web strings from two liquids like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y479OXBzCBQ [youtube.com]

Re:

[Cthefuture]

The maximum length of silk is related to the size/weight of the spider. I don't know about spiders but consider a silkworm can spin 1500 feet of silk then scale that up to human weight and I think you get the picture.

Re:

[Glowing Fish]

But there is also the cube/square problem.

The cross-section needed to support a 50 kilogram man is quite different from that needed to support a 5 gram spider.

Re:

[Glowing Fish]

And what I am saying is there is a limit to how strong and dense you can make something that is that compressible.

Is there a real life example of something that could shoot a 20 foot rope out of an 8 ounce can that can support a light human being?

And then we are looking at something that can come out of a 1 to 3 ounce cannister that can shoot out up to a mile of super strong rope.

Re:

[pushing-robot]

I don't think there is any way to get hundreds of feet of rope inside of a container a few inches around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silly_String [wikipedia.org]

Length of Spider Web

[bill_mcgonigle]

I don't think there is any way to get hundreds of feet of rope inside of a container a few inches around.

Well, I tried a quick Google and couldn't find the linear length of a spider's web, but it has to be dozens of feet of material for web that gets rebuild every day - and most of those spiders have bodies on the order of a centimeter in diameter.

Did you ever do the experiment in organic chemistry where you make nylon in a flask? You can spend an hour twisting a string out of the liquid bath. Ah, here's

Spell it right!

[KrayzieKyd]

God-Damn! For the last GD time, it's Spider-Man!

Not only did they spell it wrong...

[Glytch]

But they talk about his web-shooters as if he built them. Everyone knows that Spiderman grew them in the first movie.

Oh boy...

[Bellum Aeternus]

And mall security thought silly string wars were a mess...

Hmmm

[NRO826]

So, despite the fact that this could ultimately mean "faster and more powerful chips," the scientists seem far more concerned about whether or not they get to dress up in their spidey suits and swing from building to building. At least they have their priorities

Is it that easy?

[Anonymous Coward]

When you really boil down what's going on here, this article is fundamentally absurd. Imagine if all types of research, even those that weren't in the spotlight at the moment, could generate news articles merely by providing a reasonably credible but statistically improbable extended speculation onto their future development?

"We're convinced that, if this algorithm were part of the software powering a future cellular phone that could call a radio telescope to send a signal to a giant mass compressor orbitin

Blah... Been done in the 1970's...

[__aaclcg7560]

When the Spider-Man TV show was running during the 1970's, there was a toy that was supposed to shoot out the web stuff. The liquid work for stringing a line from the point of one toothpick to the point of another toothpick that dried solid. Didn't do squat against the cat or anything else. I was deeply disappointed that I wasn't able to become a superhero.

Re:

[edwardpickman]

Just load the liquid into a super soaker. Trust me you'll get one unhappy cat and when you try to get the stuff off him one hairless pissed off cat.

No Broken Bones?

[bill_mcgonigle]

I was deeply disappointed that I wasn't able to become a superhero.

At least you found out before you went out the window...

Finally a reality..

[dteichman2]

xkcd [xkcd.com] anyone?

Finally these words are relevant:

[Anonymous Coward]

"how do i shot web"

Pffffft

[Tablizer]

It's called a dick, people. Prior art.

This is just begging for an Urban Dictionary entry

[breadguard]

May I propose:

Nanoglue - The translucent, cement-like substance, binding only the most important corners of one's magazine collection. Recent studies suggest a negative correlation between the quantity of this substance to the relative proximity tissue paper caches. However critics of this axiom find other factors common to this phenomenon such as the social constructs where electronic devices are not given any or unequal access to a roommate's "interweb connection". Causes of this temporary condition ma

Tags

[tholomyes]

What, no "Spider-Man" tag? And I think tags have been production "beta" for long enough.

Oh, *THAT* Spiderman.

[ZombieRoboNinja]

At first the term "Spiderman" suggested some strange type of monstrous insect, but fortunately the submitter indicated that this is in fact the name of a character from a children's "comics book." This type of reminder is always welcome on a site like Slashdot, where a large portion of the readership has little familiarity with such works of fiction, or indeed with the so-called "science fiction" in general.

Re:

[elwell642]

This from a guy whose nick is ZombieRoboNinja?

The REAL application is high-density memory.

[Spy der Mann]

Check out this part of the article:


This is where the Ramathan's nanolayer bonding comes into play. Because the nanoglue forms such a strong bond and also prevents the copper and silica from mixing, the use of tantalum can be eliminated from the equation, effectively shrinking the space between the two materials from about 15 nanometres to one nanometre.


One nanometer. Current Flash memory can't go below 40 nm right now. If/when Ramathan's discovery gets applied to the industry, it'll be quite a boost for reaching smaller and more energy-efficient computers.

Re:

[Mikachu]

Energy-efficient computers? Psh, I'm waiting for the iPod Nano 80GB!

Na no!

[tsa]

I studied chemistry, moved to micromechanics, and now I suddenly find myself doing 'nanotechnology', because I spend my time making submicrometer-sized structures for a living. For 'nanophotonics', no less! And we make structures that should work in the infrared (typical wavelengths around 1.5 um)! So a better term would be microphotonics. Suddenly every branch of science has the phrase 'nano' slapped to it. What the hell is the difference between nanoglue and normal glue? Hell, I even heard the term 'nanochemistry' once! Is there any other chemistry? I mean, hyping technology to get more money from the suits for research is unfortunately necessary, but this whole nano thing is getting more and more ridiculous.

Re:

[rapidweather]

I have an anti-nano cat. A kitty-cat, mind you.
He's big, but not fat. Some cats are small, sorta nano-like, but not him. Like Spider-Man, he can jump up on cars, etc. in order to get a better view of his territory.
Looking out for Enemy cats, and for the occasional mouse. Sometimes those turn out to be rats, so you have to watch where you step as he will bring killed rats to you, expecting praise, and a few minutes alone with the refrigerator, you having opened the door for him, and are asked to look the oth

Re:

[tsa]

I am a tiny bit confused by your story. Mind you, not a nano-bit! A tiny bit. And Amused too, by the way :)

Re:

[kencurry]

I'm a chemist, and I find the same "nano" rantings annoying.

Selling and advertising have polluted our thinking and our vocabulary. Too bad,- that for people to get exicted about this work, the scientists have to sell it as a promo tie-in to a movie.

out

Re:

[Fred_A]

Hell, I even heard the term 'nanochemistry' once! Is there any other chemistry?

I do find the idea of using nanochemistry in conversation highly amusing myself. I suppose macrochemistry would be closer to engineering then (or Lego maybe) ?

"This table was assembled thanks to advanced macrochemistry bonding devices known as 'screws'".

Art imitates life, or is it....

[TyrWanJo]

What i find interesting about this is that often trends in art are precursors to those in science, i.e. the renaissance theorems about perspective in painting and its eventual application to physics, or Jules Verne's numerous stories that seem, by today's standards, almost prescient. I believe this is another one of those cases where an art form has preceded and accurately, to some degree, predicted the course of the future of science and technology.

Groan.....

[IHC Navistar]

Things Essential For The Survival Of Humanity:

1. Spider-Man web shooters.
2. A More Efficient beer bong.
3. Penis enlarging pills.
4. Larger breast implants.
5. Better tasting malt liquor.
6. A better, more gripping "Reality TV" show.
7. More comfortable prisons, because doing Hard Time is just -oh so- hard.
8. Protesting for the sake of protesting.
9. Spending billions of tax dollars to build a bridge to nowhere.
10. American Idol.
11. Beauty pageants.
12. Porn, porn, and more porn.
13. Making porn more readily available.
14. Viagra.
15. Rogaine.
16. Giving Illegal Immigrants a free pass into the United States.
17. Paris Hilton.
18. Trying to get you IPod "Just Right" instead of finishing your essay on the importance of education.
19. Second Life and World of Warcraft.
20. Developing a cheaper, low carb beer that tastes great and is less filling.
21. Making better videos for YouTube.
22. Devloping technology that allows you to drive faster and safer through traffic while talking on your cell phone, checking your email on your Blackberry, and catch the lastest and hottest music videos on your dash mounted LCD screen.
23. Perfecting the "Keg Stand".

- .....cut to.....
1,995,263. More efficient engines.
1,995,264. An inexpensive, efficient fusion reactor.
1,995,265. Manned exploration of the solar system.
1,995,266. College curriculums that contain field-relevent studies, rather than including irrelevent ones.
1,995,267. Colonization of the moon.
1,995,268. Colonization of suitable planets.
1,995,269. Manned exploration of space.
1,995,270. Social attitudes that create the desire to learn more, rather than to smoke pot, inhale potato chips, and play video games all day.
1,995,271. Taking technology out of video games and putting it into things that actually matter.
1,995,272. More efficient treatments for cancer.
1,995,273. A cure for AIDS.
1,995,274. Practical solutions to counter global warming.
1,995,275. Understanding the importance of farmers and agriculture to human society, rather than ignoring them as "redneck idiots".
1,995,276. Explore the secrets of the Universe.
- .....End List.....

Wow. I gues I really have my priorities out of order.

Re:

[suv4x4]

You forgot to include one more:

24. Wasting my time in overly long and overly plenty Slashdot posts instead of doing anything either from the beginning of the list, or the end of it.

Whining is easy, it has been easy for centuries, but now with the Internet, it's even easier. I'd rather take the web shooter than this, thank you very much.

Starting countdown... now

[Catbeller]

How many seconds until some company sells webshooter cannon to the police to quell all those dangerous peace protesters? I'm guessing two years of seconds.

The purpose of every new technology, the foremost purpose, is to shut up all those people who keep pointing out how stupid the majority are.

I webbed you...

[bronzey214]

...that means you got the apartment!

Ideal transportation

[failedlogic]

If this technology is cheaper than a car to buy...then I know what I'm buying next for transport. They only need to give me a free CD player and 0% interest. :)

Re:

[dbcad7]

Just don't try and travel through Kansas.

Wait...comic book?

[Enoxice]

...like the comic-book hero Spiderman's.

Wait...when did they make a comic book out of the Spiderman movies? I hope they didn't mess up the characters or plot too much; everyone knows that movie-to-comic-book transfers are always disastrous (except, of course, for Fantastic Four).

Man, those sentences almost hurt to type; but I guess it was all in the interest of comedy, so it was worth it. :P

just like cleopatra

[vuffi_raa]

cool so I can have gauntlets like in cleopatra 2525- how else am I supposed to fight the bailies?