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Power Science

Canada to Build 40MW Solar Power Plant 402

IceDiver writes "According to an article in the Toronto Star, an Ontario company has been given approval to build a 40MW solar power plant near Sarnia in Southwestern Ontario. This is enough power for about 10,000 homes. The plant will cover 365 hectares (1.4 sq. miles) and is to be operational by 2010. OptiSolar, the company building the plant, claims to have developed a way to mass produce the solar panels at a dramatically reduced cost, making the plant competitive with other forms of power generation. 'Compared to coal, nuclear power, even wind, solar's squeaky-clean image comes at a high price. OptiSolar is selling the electricity to the province under its new standard offer program, which pays a premium for electricity that comes from small-scale renewable projects. In the case of wind, it's 11 cents per kilowatt-hour. Solar fetches 42 cents per kilowatt hour, nearly four times as much.'"
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Canada to Build 40MW Solar Power Plant

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  • and coal? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29, 2007 @03:35AM (#18916899)
    6 cents.
  • by Burdell ( 228580 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @03:58AM (#18916973)
    The nearby nuclear power plant here has three reactors, each of which can generate over 1100MW (one reactor is currently off-line but is on schedule to be on-line next month, now capable of up to 1280MW). Even closer to my house is the dam that can generate over 140MW.
  • Re:Ratio's (Score:5, Informative)

    by Firethorn ( 177587 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @04:05AM (#18916997) Homepage Journal
    Are you sure about that? [google.com]

    365 hecters = 39.3 million square feet. The average [census.gov] size of new homes are ~2.4k square feet each, or 24 million square feet total. This doesn't count roof space though, as a two story house will have half the roof expected.

    It's close, but not a match.

    Hmm... 40MW over 10k homes only leaves 4kw average draw per house, or 16 amps of 240 during the day. Figure a 50% load factor(High end), that's 1,440 kw/h per house. At my local price of $.08/kwh $115.20 of electricity. I saw that Canada's subsidizing solar to the tune of $.24/kwh, so it'd end up being $345.60 of electricity.

    This is considered good how?
  • by reporter ( 666905 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @04:10AM (#18917017) Homepage
    Stanford University, UC Berkeley, and Georgetown University conducted an extensive study of the cost of nuclear power generation via current and future nuclear technologies [sciencedaily.com]. The conclusion is that the cost of nuclear power falls in the range: "3 cents per kilowatt hour to nearly 14 cents per kilowatt hour". That cost is much lower than the solar-cell power plant and, on average, is cheaper than wind power. Nuclear power is almost as "clean" as wind power.

    Building a solar-panel power station is "cool", "neat", and "oh, so hip". However, it makes no economic sense. Solar power is about 3x the cost of the most expensive nuclear power.

    Nuclear power is the way to go.

  • by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @04:23AM (#18917041) Homepage Journal

    If I converted to this, it would ramp my annual bill from $480 to $3200.

    No misunderstand the program. It isn't end-consumers who pay the $0.42/KWh, its the Province of Ontario, through the Ontario Power Authority. It simple gets pumped into the grid, and the consumers continue to pay the standard rate. The contract with the Province is good for 20 years.

    The idea is to spur development of renewable energy sources, while fossil fuel based plants are taken offline. It's a pretty sweet deal for the microgenerators (the program is only open to projects that generate a maximum of 10MW at a voltage of 50kV or less).

    Note that during peak periods, an extra 3.52/KWh is paid out, and the contract is indexed to inflation. And anyone in Ontario can apply to have their renewable resource microgenerator included in the program simply by filling out an online form.

    IMO, this is an excellent program. Ontario has been rebuilding nuclear capacity, has a lot of hydroelectric generation, and has been taking fossil fuel based plants offline (slowly). My family has some holiday property in central Ontario that goes unused for much of the year, and I've long thought that we should invest in some solar panels and a small wind turbine hooked into the power grid to generate some revenue. A program like this could very well make it worth it in the long run. Every such project, no matter how small, is that much less reliance needed on a fossil fuel-based plant somewhere.

    Yaz.

  • by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @04:27AM (#18917059) Homepage Journal

    Oops -- I forgot the URL to the programs website, for the interested:

    http://www.powerauthority.on.ca/sop/ [powerauthority.on.ca]

    Yaz.

  • by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @05:09AM (#18917215) Homepage Journal

    like every greenie i've ever met, your lack of understanding of even basic economics is woeful. where the hell do you think the province gets it's money from dim wit??? CONSUMERS/TAX PAYERS. and last i heard, the production of the solar panels is more toxic then just burning the same amount of coal. i hate this kind of feel good crap. do something REAL for the environment, not this fake shit.

    I'm not a "greenie". I can, however, use proper capitalization, grammar, and spelling.

    You have to realize that in Ontario many of the existing large-scale power stations are slated to be shutdown within the next 20 years anyhow. Where do you think the capital construction costs for new and/or retrofitted plants is going to come from? Those exact same taxpayers. Who pays for the environmental consequences? Those exact same taxpayers. Who pays for the extra healthcare costs associated with the pollution the existing coal fired plants spew into the atmosphere? Those exact same taxpayers.

    The Province specifically capped this program to smaller installations. Capital infrastructure costs money, but once installed will provide benefits for many years to come (and should for significantly longer than then 20 year contract period). The taxpayers are going to wind up paying for this new infrastructure in one way or another -- an incentive like this to create new jobs, new power generation, with the side benefits of a cleaner environment and lessened health care costs (remember, health care in Canada is paid for by the Province), and it's an all-around winning scenario.

    I think it is you that needs a lesson in economics. A few lessons in English and typing wouldn't hurt either while you're at it.

    Yaz.

  • by triikan ( 1035650 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @05:18AM (#18917255)
    The advantage solar power brings is that peak usage is during the day, which happens to be just exactly when solar power is being produced. So, the coal powered plants don't have to work at as high of an output, and during the night, it still operates normally (in most areas, traditional plants operating at minimal levels (they can't be fully shut down on a nightly basis) produce more than enough electricity to meet night demands). Solar plants, unless combined with a storage mechanism (hydrogen production, batteries, etc.) do not replace traditional power, but instead augments it.
  • Re:I'm not impressed (Score:3, Informative)

    by dino213b ( 949816 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @05:53AM (#18917385)
    Historically, in the US, projects that succeed have to be subsidized by the federal government. A prime example of big projects in the US that are "perceived as successful" are dams. Private construction of dams has failed time and time again (due to massive costs) until bureau of reclamation and USACE started siphoning from the federal budget for their construction. If you examine costs vs benefits on most dams in the US, you will see that a large number of them are "useless". Funding of these puppies has been weird, at best. Initially they were supposed to pay for themselves, but, that was abandoned some time ago.

    So as it pertains to your argument, were the wealthy given benefits of expensive dam construction? No. The federal government secured funding to benefit all, rich or poor. (In the grand scheme of things, consider all of the beneficiaries poor). Sure, there were exceptions..but would you consider hydroelectric plants as dead-end technology?

    Canada has no energy crisis or an energy shortage.

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_ publications/company_level_imports/current/import. html [doe.gov]

    As you can see, Canada is the #1 supplier of oil to the US. Their population is around 33 mil and most of the population lives right next to the US border. So why would they bother with PV arrays? They are going to charge consumers normal electric rates for use --- however, big government projects are very patient. As inflation goes up and time goes on, the electricity will more than pay off for itself. Peak oil is theorized to start strangling energy exports in the next 10-15-20 years while this PV array will last 20-30-40 years without breaking a sweat.

    So the moral of the story? Count your chickens before they hatch.
  • by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @06:51AM (#18917595) Homepage
    It looks like a poor choice of location for solar power.

    Take a look at this map:

    http://www.solar4power.com/map2-global-solar-power .html [solar4power.com]

  • by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @07:03AM (#18917625) Homepage Journal

    Glad to hear that the Province of Ontario no longer has ANY taxation of its citizens! Wonderful news - I'll move there immediately!

    Oh wait, they still have to tax the population to pay for things like health, education, roads, power subsidies?

    Somewhere this solar power plant is getting its $0.42/kWh, and if it's coming from the government, it's coming from your taxes. Essentially your tax dollars are funding this private company - you're paying $0.42/kWh minimum, whether it shows on your power bill or not.

    A few points:

    • As you said, taxation pays for health care in Ontario. Not all that far from the area in question is the Nanticoke Power Plant -- the largest coal fired power plant in North America. Pollution from fossil fuel fired power plants causes thousands of deaths in Canada per year, primarily of the elderly, who have to be hospitalized for lengthy periods of time due to respiratory problems. Pollution from fossil-fuel plants is already costing taxpayers. Reducing pollution will (in time) net a tax savings for taxpayers.
    • Most of the large scale power plants in Ontario are ageing, and will be in need of replacement in the next 20 years. The Government has stated its intentions to close Nanticoke by 2009. If new generation capacity is going to be built anyhow, who do you think is going to pay for it anyhow? That's right -- taxpayers.
    • Projects like this one will create jobs, which is a net increase for the Province when it comes to overall tax collections.
    • As seen in the blackout of August 2003 [wikipedia.org] (and I was living in Ontario at the time, and remember it quite well), Ontario's electricity grid and system of lots of large, distant power plants makes failure really easy. One of the potential solutions to mitigate the effects from such things occurring again is to have a lot more regional microgeneration plants. Encouraging the creation of such facilities can lessen the effect on the economy and the lives of citizens if such an event happens again.

    FWIW, I haven't lived in Ontario for a few years. I have family that still does, however. IMO, this seems like a pretty good investment on the part of the Province and on the part of taxpayers -- taxpayers get clean burning energy, pollution-related health care costs decrease, jobs are created, and with a bit of luck and ingenuity green power related industries move to Ontario due to its expended market. Sounds like a pretty good deal to the citizens of Ontario to me.

    Investments cost money. Governments have been investing in fossil fuel based power plants for decades, through either direct ownership or subsidies. Hell, chances are very good that the power in whatever region you're living in is or has been subsidized by tax dollars. Why start bitching about it just because in this case it's a green technology subsidy

    Yaz.

  • by Firethorn ( 177587 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @07:55AM (#18917823) Homepage Journal
    I just have to say that I agree with you. That's one of the points I've tried to make: There are limits to funding, economies, etc... While the supply is not fixed, there are processes that are more efficient than others.

    A 40MW plant of solar is unlikely to enable the takedown of even a single coal plant. Even ten of them is unlikely to. Ten of these solar plants would cost $3Billion dollars, which, depending upon which figures you use, would result in 1-3GW of new nuclear plant capacity, which would enable the shutting down of a number of coal plants.

    Is it just me, or does it appear that somebody's being awfully free with the troll mod on anybody being down on solar power, or this install of it?

  • by joib ( 70841 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @08:07AM (#18917863)
    Concentrating solar power works comparatively better in areas with little cloud cover, since they are entirely dependent on direct radiation, vs. normal solar cells which at least get some output from diffuse light.
  • Re:simcity (Score:5, Informative)

    by jez9999 ( 618189 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @08:53AM (#18918039) Homepage Journal
    In Simcity2k, the best way to get power was to raise a block of 3x3 land, cover it with water, and build 9 hydro plants on it. Never blow up. :-)
  • by tylernt ( 581794 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @01:01PM (#18919423)

    The main problem with nuclear energy is not the accidents, but the storage of the waste material, which remains extremely poisonous for a very long time. Maybe you didn't know that.
    Only because of legislation. We could actually recycle and re-use the waste (as France is doing) if the politicians would just allow it. That, combined with new pebble-bed reactors that are virtually meltdown-proof, make nuclear pretty attractive.
  • by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Sunday April 29, 2007 @04:39PM (#18920937) Homepage
    It's slightly more complicated than this - I believe only certain types of breeders can basically guarantee only short-lived waste (fundamentally by being able to "burn" basically any actinide), and those breeder types were still in the research phase in the early 1990s.

    That said, the fact that research was 100% halted in the early 1990s by the Clinton administration on one of the most promising of these breeder types (the IFR) due to proliferation concerns (showing a fundamental lack of understanding of the reactor, only seeing the name breeder and saying "breeder = proliferation" even though the waste products from the IFR would have been utterly useless for building nuclear weapons) means we're 15+ years behind in that regard.
  • by TuballoyThunder ( 534063 ) on Sunday April 29, 2007 @06:40PM (#18921845)
    > If you were to try and run the world on conventional reactors, the supply of uranium would last us 20 years or so.
    > If you can use breeders, you will get maybe a 100 years (depends how much we use). If you add in thorium, several
    > hundred years.

    Twenty years--lets look at that the number carefully. The current mineral inventory of uranium, coupled with current enrichment technology and usage gives you about 70 years [world-nuclear.org]. If one projects that number of reactors triples, then we can get the twenty years that you quote.

    Let me present the following, albeit rough, argument. The historical trading range for U3O8 has been about $10 in "current year" dollars--in 2006 dollars, the prices has traded in the $10 - $80 range. The two excursions has been in the 70's and 2004+. From 1980 until 2004, the global demand has been low and the HEU blend down program with Russia introduced a cheap source of U3O8 into the market. Thus, investment in uranium mining, conversion, and enrichment has been low. When one factors in loan financing and depreciation, there is little incentive to invest when there is over 30+ years of inventory available.

    Lets adopt the 20 year inventory as factual. The assay of U235 in the tailings from enrichment is typically around 0.3% (vice 0.711% in natural uranium)--the amount varies due to the price of uranium feed versus the cost in enrichment. Depending on how many SWU's one uses, current enrichment technology can produce natural uranium feed equal to about 10% - 25% of the mass of the DU feed. If one uses a more efficient enrichment technology, for example atomic vapor laser isotope seperation (AVLIS), even more natural uranium could be produced. Another option is to recover uranium from the oceans.

    So depending on what the projected trend is on the price of uranium and the rate of new uranium ore discovery, the economics of tailings enrichment or new enrichment techologies may become viable. If one then factors in reprocessing of spent fuel, the viability of the uranium fuel cycle goes far beyond twenty years.

    The biggest problem with solar power is that only 1366 W/m^2 reaches the upper atomosphere of the Earth. Thus to generate 1GW, you would need a 700000 m^2 (0.73 km^2) at 100% effiiciency. If you didn't want to build an orbiting power station, then the solar fluence becomes much less. Lets say half makes it to the surface in the mid latitudes (in North America the range is 125 - 375 W/m^2 [wikipedia.org]) and you can make solar cells that are 50% efficient (current cells are 15%) you will need 2.9 km^2 to generate 1 GW. The net generating capacity of the United States is 978 GW [doe.gov], thus one would need 2900 km^2. Of course, one needs sunshine for solar collectors to work, so lets assume in the summer you have a 50% split between day and night and that you get full power for the 12 hours of sunlight. Lets further assume that the night time power consumption in the summer is 20% of the daytime power consumption. Lets further assume that there is some magical energy storage system that is 100% efficient, you would then need 3500 km^2, which is 10 times the size of New York city. If one assumes you can site the collectors with a 50% density (e.g. 1 m^2 collector requires 2 m^2 of real estate), then you need 7000 km^2 (20 times the size of NYC or twice the size of Rhode Island).

    For a point of comparison, the Palo Verde nuclear power plant generates 3800 MW and the plant is sited on 16 km^2, thus it generates 0.24 GW/km^2. My widely optimistic solar power plant generates 978 GW in 7000 km^2, which is 0.14 GW/km^2. This does not factor in the "off site" requirements (uranium mines, enrichment, solar panel manufacturing, etc.) but does provide a rough comparison of the two technologies. The Palo Verde generates electricity at 1.33 cents/KWH. A

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