Earthlike Planet Orbiting Nearby Star 617
The Bad Astronomer writes "Astronomers in Europe have announced the discovery of a planet with only 5 times the Earth's mass, orbiting a red dwarf star 20 light years away. It orbits the star so closely that it only takes 13 days to go around... but the star is so cool that the temperature of the planet is between 0 and 40 Celsius. At this temperature there could be liquid water. Models indicate the planet is either rocky like the Earth or covered in an ocean. While it's not known if there actually is liquid water on the planet, this is a really big discovery, and indicates that we are getting ever closer to finding another Earth orbiting an alien star."
More links: (Score:5, Informative)
Very cool news!
Re:Only 5X the mass of Earth! (Score:5, Informative)
More information... (Score:5, Informative)
The link in the blog seems to be broken. There is some more information about the planet (Gliese 581 c) on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], MSN [msn.com], and Space.com [space.com].
quick maths on gravity (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This is worth sending a probe. (Score:5, Informative)
still, this is within the realm of practicality, and if it returns promising results it could usher in a new era of colonization.
Re:When do tickets go on sale? (Score:5, Informative)
The optical planet hunters often conveniently forgot this system (or dismiss it for various reasons).
Re:How long to get there? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Only 5X the mass of Earth! (Score:2, Informative)
No info on the atmosphere but its certainly exciting news.
Re:Rocky like Earth? (Score:2, Informative)
Ion drive not up to the task (Score:4, Informative)
The best theoretical ion drive I've read about has an Isp of 10,000 seconds. That translates into an exhaust velocity of 100 kps (rounding up a bit).
Speed of light: A touch less than 300,000 kps.
Plugged into the rocket equation:
Mf+Mp / Mp = e^{300000/100) = 2.72 ^ 3000
Well, the Windows calculator tells me that's 5.0899334329769958439246007097416e+1303
That's the ratio of ("fuel" and payload) to payload.
Um, even if I screwed up somewhere, and I'm off by a factor of a million, that ain't good.
Re:5x the mass = impossible gravity (Score:2, Informative)
Gravitational pressure? WTF?
I think you are confusing water pressure (which is equivalent to the weight of the water column above you) with gravity which is pretty much the same at the bottom of the sea as it is on the surface. I will also point out that life happily exists at the bottom of our deepest ocean trenches, 35,000 feet down, where the pressure is about 16,000 psi. The fishies down there are made of "organic cell structures" and are not "instantly crushed from the pressure". "How can this be?" I hear you ask. Because the cells are filled with water, which as you have stated correctly (about the only thing correct in you entire post) does not compress.
Gliese 581 (Score:2, Informative)
The star is a variable, so it may periodically hammer planets in a close orbit with massive flares. If the planet was covered in a sea that might offer enough protection from the hard radiation of the flares to let life develop. It's surprising that a planet in this new orbit wasn't disrupted by the Neptune size giant closer to the star.
Re:How long to get there? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Probably not tidally locked. (Score:3, Informative)
Seems like a very big conclusion to leap to based on a sample size of one and even that single system contains an exception. Is there an underlying model which explains why planets above a certain mass must have dense atmospheres? Mars doesn't and I thought it's gravity was sufficient to stop heavier molecules escaping.
Re:How long to get there? (Score:5, Informative)
About the most we could realistically hope for is somewhere between 0.01c to 0.1c. Antimatter-induced microfusion, dusty fission fragment rockets, thermal rockets, nuclear saltwater rockets, various kinds of sails, etc, seem to be the most realistic options. But probably not during our lifetimes.
Re:Probably not tidally locked. (Score:3, Informative)
As for our system, it's not a sample size of one, it's a sample size of six planets of Venus size or greater. Yes, there's an exception, but we're reasonably sure we know why -- the same reason that we have a moon (formerly Earth's eighth continent
Re:Rocky like Earth? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Uninhabital new worlds (Score:3, Informative)
If the planet radius is constant, it does, at least according to Newton's gravitational laws. But gravity also is inversely proportional to the square of the planet radius (given a constant mass), so a low density planet (large, but low mass) has lower gravity than a high density planet (small, but high mass), and the gravity decreases faster with increasing radius than it increases with increasing mass.
The planet in the article would have a gravity of approx. 2.223g according to my calculations.
Re:Uninhabital new worlds (Score:5, Informative)
ORL J Otorhinolaryngol Relat Spec. 1995 Jul-Aug;57(4):189-93.
Effect of prolonged hypergravity on the vestibular system: a behavioural study.Sondag HN, de Jong HA, Oosterveld WJ.
Vestibular Department ENT, University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
Golden hamsters were exposed to conditions of 2.5 times normal gravity (hypergravity, HG) for 4 months. During this period, tests were carried out to study equilibrium maintenance, swimming behaviour and open-field behaviour of these HG hamsters and of control hamsters living in a normal-gravity environment. The tests proved to be useful devices for detecting differences in perceptive-motor behaviour between HG hamsters and control hamsters. The HG hamsters had more difficulties in balancing on tubes and orientation during swimming. In the open-field study, the HG hamsters showed less locomotor activity than control hamsters. However, no differences were observed between the groups in washing, rearing and number of times having defaecation. These findings indicate that the daily transition from 2.5 to 1 g was not experienced as stressful by the hamsters, although performance on several perceptive-motor tasks was decreased, especially during the first weeks.
Re:New discoveries... (Score:2, Informative)
OK. We know that F = G Mm/r^2
So, if the Mass is five times bigger... and the radius is twice that of earth, the force will be 5/2^2 = 1.25G
I don't think that we are able to accurately measure the size of the planet, but the site above quoted 1.5 times earth's radius. That would give us 5/1.5^2 = 2.22G
Plug your own numbers in and take your choice
Re:How long to get there? (Score:5, Informative)
2.25G in a car? (Score:2, Informative)
Is your daily driver a formula 1 prepped vehicle? If not I seriously doubt you pull more than 1G on a dry skid pad. (when you say "my car" I'm assuming you are speaking of the vehicle you regularly drive). One of the best production cars for skidpad grip is the Ferrari Enzo and it "only" pulls about 1.05G.
2.25 G (Score:2, Informative)
Do you really pull 2.25g in your car?
Let's give you the benefit of counting the Earth's gravity toward what you are feeling in your car on the skidpad. So you've got 1g straight down plus a lateral component N, and the total is 2.25.
The vectors form a right triangle, so a^2 + b^2 = c^2, right?
a = 1, b=N, c= 2.25
a^2 = 1, b^2 = N^2, c^2 = 5.0625
1 + N^2 = 5.0625
N^2 = 4.0625
N = 4.0625^.5 = ~2.01
Sports cars with special tires pull lateral around 1.0 G. Formula 1 cars and other extreme ground effects cars pull 2 g and more, but most people are never in one of those.
So, either
1) I've screwed up my physics
2) You've got a very uncommon car
3) Even adding regular gravity to what you can pull on a skidpad, you're maxing out your automotive G's closer to sqrt(2) = ~1.4
Well, that was fun. BTW, I agree with your point. 2.25G wouldn't kill us, tho I bet it would greatly reduce the lifespan of one's knees, hips and back. Certainly SOMETHING could live there tho. Probably alien warrior badasses who, should they come to Earth, could jump 50 feet and throw cars around like they were toys. That'd be cool, apart from how much it would suck. Hopefully we could get them hooked on television.