DNA to Test Theory of Roman Village in China 203
Reverse Gear writes "Many of the inhabitants of a lonely village in north western China seems to have distinctive western features. An old theory from the 50s suggests that a Roman legion lost in what is now Iran in the year 53BC lost their commanding officer. They traveled east, so the legend goes, working as mercenaries until they were caught by the Chinese 17 years later. The Chinese described them as using a 'fish-scale formation', which could be a reference to the well-known Roman phalanx technique called the 'tortoise'. The remainder of the legion, it is suggested, may have intermarried with the villagers in Liqian. Scientists are now trying to verify the fascinating theory by testing the DNA of the inhabitants of the Chinese village."
First they conquered Europe... (Score:2, Interesting)
Not the first indication of Europeans in China.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not the first indication of Europeans in China. (Score:5, Interesting)
While trying to hunt down the Amazons origins, they visited some nomads somewhere in China (or Mongolia, can't remember where exactly) and took DNA samples of a blonde 10 or 12 year old girl with distinct Caucasian features -- although her mother had none of these whatsoever.
Lo and behold, her DNA (and her mothers!) was identical to DNA samples taken from an Amazon mummy of something like a warrior-priestess found in what is nowadays Ukraine.
Meaning, the girl was a direct descendant of that woman who lived around 2,000 years ago.
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Photos of Liqian Residents (Score:5, Interesting)
slide #7 features a young girl with semi-blond hair, and #10 is a close-up of an older man with green-hazel eyes.
I remember the story a little differently... (Score:5, Interesting)
THE LOST LEGION
The battle of Carrhae [wikipedia.org] ended 53 years before the birth of Jesus Christ, in the last day of the month of may, with a shameful disaster for the Roman army. Seven legions having the strength of 45,000 soldiers were humiliated and routed by 10,000 Parthian archers. Carrhae, an ancient biblical city now known as Harran, is located on Turkey's oriental border. The commanding officer of this unfortunate expedition was Marcus Licinius Crassus, a 62 years old tribune who had organized that campaign eager to gain glory and wealth, even though he was already one of the most rich and powerful men in Rome. Perhaps he did it just because he envied the military successes of Pompeius Magnus and Caesar, and foolishly thought that he may equal them, even though Pompeius Magnus and Caesar were war professionals while Crassus was a mere amateur. His only triumph had been the bloody defeat of Spartacus, but achieved with Pompeius' help: in fact he had too little experience and genius to embark on a large-scale operation abroad.
The Republican government loathed to let him depart with such a sizeable army as there was no real emergency in the east, but Crassus eventually enlisted the support of Pompeius Magnus and Caesar, who did not fail to see the opportunity to free themselves of a powerful competitor whilst waiting to settle the score with each other. During the hot public debate in the Senate a tribunus plebis named Ateius attempted to stop him. Plutarcus writes that, when he realised that his efforts were in vain and that he would not receive enough supporting votes, he lit a brazier and, while throwing grains of incense into the flames, started to curse Crassus and evoke the infernal gods. Judging from the name and the behaviour of this man, we can guess that he was of Etruscan descent. Some metropolitan legions grouped in Rome and marched through Campania and then met at Brindisi with the others coming up from Calabria and then left in spite of the stormy sea. Not all the ships reached the other shore. Crassus had fortune, the blind goddess, on his side during his youth: he came out unscathed from the civil wars; then was implicated in the Catiline conspiracy but bore no consequences; he paid the debts of a spendthrift Caesar whilst being tightfisted himself and with his family. But things had changed and while aging he became a blunderer, making mistakes which were numerous and serious. For instance, in a speech to his soldiers he proclaimed that he would destroy a bridge "so that none of you will be able to return". Noticing their dismayed expression, Crassus corrected himself by explaining that he was referring to the enemy, not his own soldiers. He ordered the distribution of lentils and salt to the troops, oblivious of the fact that this was the meal offered at funerals. The worst possible omen occurred when Crassus dropped on the floor the slippery entrails of a sacrificial animal that were placed in his hands by a haruspex. (a soothsayer) Crassus attempted to correct this mistake by crying, "Fear not, despite my age, the hilt of my sword will not slip out of my hand". On the day of the battle, Crassus wore a black tunic, instead of the purple one de rigeur for Roman generals. Even though Crassus quickly returned to his tent to change, he left his officers speechless. We can still imagine those officers crossing their fingers ("fare le corna", forefinger and little finger raised, a very efficacious propitiatory gesture of Etruscan origin) and grasp a certain part of their body. Moreover, Crassus refused to listen to his veterans who were in favour of marching on the coast and avoid the desert to reach the Parthian capital. Rather, he trusted the arab Arimanes and his six thousand horsemen, who had secretly sided with the Parthians and abandoned the Romans few
Macedonians in Pakistan (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Pasta (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:First they conquered Europe... (Score:5, Interesting)
Anybody familiar with history will know Europeans have long rambled across most of Asia. Even today there are fully European looking people in Afghanistan, and most Indians and all Persians and Pakistanis have some or even alot of European ancestry. Despite the name 'European' the 'Europeans' have always lived in parts of Asia.
4,000 year old noodles. (Score:2, Interesting)
Put your 50BC brain in gear (Score:4, Interesting)
Your brain sees -- clearly -- a picture map of the world from space.
A 50BC brain sees no such thing.
To the well-educated 50BC brain, it would be self-evident that continuing to travel East will bring you to the edge of the world. Perhaps they planned to then circle around the "edge" and come back "up" the Nile -- something that's hinted at in the "Alexander" film that came out a couple of years back.
Or perhaps they figured they'd circle "around" to the North, and come down "through" Gaul to get home.
This is all assuming that such a "lost legion" did, in fact, exist -- something I personally feel is unlikely.
Fish scale (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:First they conquered Europe... (Score:3, Interesting)
The other way round... (Score:4, Interesting)
Now this is nearly unelievable because I know this area: mostly plains, lots of roads. Such a story seems unlikely to the casual listener; however, I did ask an Haematologist about it. He confirmed this story which is well-known in the field.
Some humans just like to travel, you know... (Score:5, Interesting)
My theory is humans just like to travel around a bit, or sometimes settle far from home because of economic or political necessity or benefit. Hey, we see it today, why not 2000 years ago?
In the UK we've got Hadrian's Wall, big old wall the Romans built in the north of England. There's documented proof that soldiers from other parts of the Empire were stationed there, from north Africa, Greece, Spain, etc... Who's to say a few of them didn't taking a liking to the place and decide to settle, maybe met a local girl, got a bit of a good little business number going locally, that sort of thing?
The idea of a bunch of soldiers going freelance in exchange for a load of money and ending up quite a long way from home (Romans in China) - well why not?
Re:Not the first indication of Europeans in China. (Score:3, Interesting)
Most of that has now been confirmed using DNA. There was a number of waves going as far back as the Dorian invasion which overthrew the bronze age greek civilisations and established what 500 years later became the golden age greece. This was followed by gotts, westgotts, barbarians, huns, bulgarians, etc. All of them displaced from outer mongolia a few centuries before they ended up in Europe.
Actually, no. There were lots of nomadic invasions that came from places other than the Mongolian plain. Most of the Germanic tribes that laid the Roman empire low came from Scandanavia. The Slavs that were the terror of the Balkans around 600 A.D. came from the Pripyet marshes.
Plenty of nomadic invasions hailed from the Mongolian plain, however. The Scythians, the Sarmatians, the Alans, the Huns, the Turks, and the Mongols, to name a few.
Re:suspicious?? (Score:3, Interesting)
While chuckled while reading the article and had the same thought, genetically, that's not possible. Blond hair is a recessive trait; you need both parents to have the gene. So unless one of this fellow's parents also had an affair with a blond to produce him, you musing simply doesn't add up.
It wouldn't be the first time Western traits were found in Chinese population. I remember visiting the Natural History museum in my girlfriend's home city of Chongqing 2 years ago and there was a display there talking about Europeans migrating and interbreeding with locals. However the timeframe for this would have been a thousand or two years before the Roman Empire, back when humanity was generally more nomadic.
I'll say one thing, it definitely now puts this village on a list of places I'd love to visit and see. I've been to this region of China before, but didn't get that far north; I went straight west all the way to Urumqi.