Computer Characters Tortured for Science 306
Rob Carr writes "Considered unethical to ever perform again with humans, researcher Mel Slater recreated the Milgram experiment in a immersive virtual environment. Subjects (some of whom could see and hear the computerized woman, others who were only able to read text messages from her) were told that they were interacting with a computer character and told to give increasingly powerful electric shocks when wrong answers were given or the 'woman' took too long to respond. The computer program would correspondingly complain and beg as the 'shocks' were ramped up, falling apparently unconscious before the last shock. The skin conductance and electrocardiograms of the subjects were monitored. Even though the subjects knew they were only 'shocking' a computer program, their bodies reacted with increased stress responses. Several of the ones who could see and hear the woman stopped before reaching the 'lethal' voltage, and about half considered stopping the study. The full results of the experimental report can be read online at PLoS One. Already, some (like William Dutton of the Oxford Internet Institute) are asking whether even this sanitized experiment is ethical."
Interesting Experiment (Score:5, Interesting)
Fun for everyone! (Score:4, Interesting)
Then ask them if they'd torture a criminal.
After the torture (for those who do volunteer) tell them that there was a mistake and that the guy was innocent. But their assistance is needed with the real criminal.
Re:Did subjects know about the Milgram experiment? (Score:3, Interesting)
In order for the study to have been tightly-controlled and more importantly, valid, they would have had to control for that. They may have asked if the participants knew who Milgram was, but they would probably have not asked to if they had heard of the experiment, as it would have introduced a slight bias. Mind you, Milgram's experiment was ground-breaking in that it showed that even ordinary people can perform actions contrary to societal norms, which was the thesis based on the "I was only following orders" cant of concentration camp operators during WWII. It is of course not an excuse, but merely an artifact of societal control -- which gets expressed most strongly in a totalitarian regime.
Computer / Photoshopped Pornography (Score:4, Interesting)
And then there's the more obvious- kill or be killed- games that exist. Not to dip into the Matrix "Your mind makes it real" mentality that you see written into laws now adays targeting violent games but there may be some form of truth to that axiom. To some individuals that can not or will not socialize this may provide the tipping point that triggers their anti-social behaviour.
Interesting research. It'll be more interesting to see how the ethic committees respond.
Re:Fun for everyone! (Score:5, Interesting)
The first and second groups act as they did in this study.
The second and third groups act as the first and second, but with a man.
The fourth and fifth groups act as the first and second, but with a man, but of a different race (black subjects get a white victim, etc).
The sixth and seventh groups act as the first and second, but with a man they are told is an enemy combatant.
There are a lot of variations of this, and I doubt any of them are very ethical. But being unethical doesn't make the results uninteresting or invalid, but without a sufficiently large group, any results would be generally untrusted (but still interesting!).
Exposure to Video Games Important? (Score:5, Interesting)
I've got to wonder what the participants' exposure to video games or other "virtual environments" would have on their responses. To a gamer, I'm not sure rapid heart rate, and sweaty palms indicate increased anxiety. They might have just been "getting into the game."
I remember when Half-Life first came out my friend and I spent a lot of time running around beating the innocent bystanders with our crowbars and watching them beg for forgiveness. We weren't doing it because we were sadists, just curious gamers. We'd never seen NPC's react in such a realistic way before, and thought it was "cool". My girlfriend came into the room while we were doing this and was horrified, got really upset and asked us to stop. Not being as avid a gamer, I don't think she was used to dissociating her emotions from video game characters.
I don't think video game violence numbs players to real world violence, but it sure numbs them to video game violence. Seems to me like prior experience would play a major role in your reaction to this experiment.
Why is this ethical? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Of course it's ethical (Score:5, Interesting)
This made me think of a personal antecdote. I don't know how many people played any games from the dungeon keeper series, but I used to play the first one a lot. One of the hallmarks of the game is that you're an evil character. However, as much as the ability to play a different persona appeals to me, every time I set out to play an evil character in any game I end up feeling remorse for killing innocents, even though they aren't real.
Anyway, in dungeon keeper (Real time strategy) you start out with a group of loyal imps. They are weak, small and do all of the mining and grunt work in your dungeon. They are unique in the game in that they can be created, and will always serve you no matter how poorly you treat them. The game allows you to slap creatures to make them work harder. There is little downside in doing this with imps since they won't flee the dungeon in anger and since they are poor fighters their health level isn't really important. Logically, all imps should be regularly slapped for maximum dungeon efficancy. And in fact, the computer controlled rival keepers do just that.
But I couldn't really do it as a matter of course. I actually felt bad, knowing full well that they weren't real. They made noises like they were in pain but of course thats just the computer. It was only when I was in a dire spot (doing a fast gem seam grab at the start of the map and then fortifying the walls to hold off an attack) that I would slap them, and even then I felt kind of bad.
So I can sort of understand how the results are similar to the original experiment. Its evoking an emotional response, and playing it again logic.
Too much time in virtual reality could be harmful (Score:3, Interesting)
I hear people talking about TV and movie characters (i.e. actors pretending to be people who don't exist in the first place) as if they are real. People pay real money for virtual goods. However, I've also heard soldiers (particular pilots) compare real combat to video games. It seems like the line between virtual reality and actual reality is pretty dim for some.
But given the amount of time people spend on TV, in front of computers, or playing video games, this is hardly surprising.
Re:Why is this ethical? (Score:2, Interesting)
Despite the fact that all of the participants of this experiment knew that they were not hurting anyone, they still felt various levels of stress when given an audio/visual representation of their actions (compared to relatively minor reactions when interacting through a text messaging client), even though the display was of a very low quality. It would be difficult to predict that people would react to pretending to hurt fake people, and so there really was no way to determine the "ethicalness" of the experiment until the results were in.
Personally, I think that the objections to either experiment are bogus, held by people who simply refuse to admit or allow others to admit that good, honest people can be ordered to do abhorrent things, whether it's facing the fact that the people who tortured and gassed Jews were just like everyone else, or that they might be on par with the people hired to break strikes by slaughtering women and children [umwa.org]. God forbid the people in charge might actually have to face accountability for the results of their orders. Will no one rid me of this meddling priest?
Re:There is a problem with ethics! (Score:4, Interesting)
Fast food workers torture co-worker [go.com]
Re:Unethical? (Score:4, Interesting)
Mirror Neurons (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Did subjects know about the Milgram experiment? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's perfectly possible that they asked questions like that after the experiment. That way they get their data and it doesn't put any ideas in the subjects' heads.
Re:Did subjects know about the Milgram experiment? (Score:2, Interesting)