Verizon Can't Do Math 639
Blogger George Vaccaro recently had a problem with his Verizon based on an unfortunate miscommunication of currency. The crux of the matter was that he was quoted .002 cents per kilobyte for data during a trip to Canada but was charged .002 dollars. Normally this would have been an easy fix, however several humorous calls later the Verizon reps still were unable to discern between the difference between the two rates. You really have to hear it to believe it. Kudos George, you have the patience of a saint.
knowing verizon... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:But did he know? (Score:5, Informative)
updates (Score:5, Informative)
Re:But did he know? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Rep know he's being recorded (Score:4, Informative)
Type it into google (Score:4, Informative)
People are uneducated (Score:5, Informative)
The other day I had to help someone in payroll understand that 0.5 ("point five") hours really is equal to 0.50 ("point fifty") hours.
Don't they teach this stuff in 5th grade anymore?
Re:Type it into google (Score:5, Informative)
Re:youtube (Score:3, Informative)
I believe the audio on PutFile is longer (27 minutes verse the YouTube's 22 minute version).
Also, Andrea (the call rep) leaves her contact information at the end. Maybe someone here can explain this simple concept to her? Her phone number is 1-888-581-1070 (Ext. 2234)
If you call the number currently it says "The mailbox for Andrea is full"...
Re:Morons (Score:5, Informative)
Unless Verizon has changed since I was with them, he'll get the money back if he fights for it, but it won't be easy.
"Contact Us" link broken (Score:2, Informative)
I wanted to write Verizon Wireless directly to thank them for providing us with such excruciating entertainment.
Funny thing...The link now leads to a page to purchase new Verizon products instead.
Does anyone at Verizon begin to understand the nature of this public relations fiasco yet?
Write a letter (not an email) (Score:5, Informative)
Every time I've had an issue with the phone company this always resolves it. I've only had to write to the PUC about a company twice. Usually mentioning the PUC to the company will wake them up without you having to write a letter.
Re:Type it into google (Score:4, Informative)
Key Moment (Score:5, Informative)
George: Do you recognize there is a difference between one dollar and one cent?
Andrea: Definitely.
George: Do you recognize there is a difference between half a dollar and half a cent?
Andrea: Definitely.
George: Do you therefore recognize there is a difference between
Andrea: No... There's no
George: Of course there is.
Re:Abbott and Costello... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is why small claims court exists.... (Score:5, Informative)
I think I might have approached it like this: "Ok, so 1 kilobyte costs .002 cents, right? So how much is 2 kilobytes? .004 cents, ok? How much would 5 kilobytes be? .01 cents? Still wtih me? Ok, how about 50 kilobytes? .1 cents, right? And 500 kilobytes would be 1 cent, you still with me? If 500 kilobytes is 1 cent, how much is 1000 kilobytes? 2 cents? Ok, 1000 kilobytes costs 2 cents, how many of those did I use? About 36, right? So if each one is 2 cents, then that should be about 72 cents, right? So how come you're charging me almost 72 DOLLARS?" The point is to NEVER let them multiply anything by .002, always keep it in scale, always keep it in cents, scale it up until you're talking whole cents, then go from there.
Re:People are uneducated (Score:3, Informative)
I'm not sure what issue I would have exactly, except that it has no meaning to me. "Point five zero" has meaning. To me, "fifty" is greater than one, and has no place in numbers less than one.
I guess it's just what you're used to...
However, on hearing "point fifty", after a momentary pause of total incomprehension, I would almost certainly conclude that the meaning was the same as what I know as "point five". I can't imagine what other conclusion one could come to. I'm very curious what "someone in payrol" thought it meant?
Care to share?
Re:Morons (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Morons (Score:3, Informative)
Try the HTML entity.
I don't think it's a decimal problem (Score:3, Informative)
I ran into this sort of problem just last week, with an otherwise competent employee trying to do some measurements for a recipe. The recipe was given to her over the phone, and the person only specified the numbers. It turned out the numbers were in fluid ounces but her measuring device was labeled in millileters, so she ended up flip-flopping randomly between fl. oz. and ml in her calculations, leading to all sorts of problems.
Re:People are uneducated (Score:5, Informative)
Dude, parentage is hard!
Re:People are uneducated (Score:3, Informative)
Contact Information (Score:2, Informative)
Here's the information for Andrea. At the time of posting this, her voicemail box is already full.
Andrea: 1-888-581-1070 (Ext. 2234)
Re:Type it into google (Score:2, Informative)
Try:
Re:Damn (Score:1, Informative)
Don't worry, Eigenvalues evolved as a trick to help solve differential equations (generally insoluble by the human mind) in the course of quantum chemistry theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigenvalue [wikipedia.org]
So don't feel bad, humans cannot solve differential equations. It is why we invented computers. (Very few people realise that.) This however does not stop educational institutions from trying to force students to memorise the solutions to differential equations, sigh.
Babbage's Analytical Engine:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/lpae.html [fourmilab.ch]
Bush's Differential Analyzer:
http://web.mit.edu/mindell/www/analyzer.htm [mit.edu]
(ballistic firing solutions used throughout WWII engagements)
ENIAC:
http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/eniac-story.htm
Gear's programs:
http://www.cs.uiuc.edu/about/history.php [uiuc.edu]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing [wikipedia.org]
So again, don't feel bad, I cannot emphasise enough that the human brain is incapable of systematically solving differential equations. Intuitive solutions have arisen, been tested empirically and named after their various discoverers though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equatio
http://www.civilized.com/ [civilized.com]
One more time: we invented computers to solve differential equations, forcing students to memorise them is asinine.
This is a bee in my bonnet because it prevented me from getting to grad school in pure science while being a chronic marijuana smoker, the short term memory issue was a bit of a problem in this respect, but only only differential calculus was a problem while stoned, the rest of a pure science undergrad was a breeze because it was all logical bottom-up theory. Memorisation is not knowledge and intelligence.
Most undergrad programs have since relaxed their requirements in this respect, too late for me however.
Re:My Message, for example (Score:3, Informative)
When I was working for the database end of the billing system for a Telco (and their size was a fraction from Verizon) they ran into the following problem:
The month has only 30 days!
I kid you not. See, the problem with telco billing systems is not necessarily their complexity (it has a fair amount of this, but after all is said and done it's an accounting system), but the massive amount of data those systems need to process.
Every damn call generates a CDR (call data record), which is fed into the billing system and a hickup of the system for only a couple hours, or to deal with non-streamlined issues (like retrieving and actually correcting an old invoice) is a severe disruption of the whole system. Here's a hopefully not too crappy analogy:
You miss your train at London Paddington Station for Cardiff. It's not your fault, you where there in time, but the automatic gate didn't recognize your valid ticket and you thus missed the train.
The train operator will not stop the train at Swindon and have it return to Paddington just because they fucked up. They will cheerfully honour your ticket and let you board the next available train to Cardiff.
Anything else would be just too much a disruption of the flow how a train network works.
This certainly shouldn't justify rotten customer service, or a guy with a strange accent in a call center in Bangalore who actually doesn't know what he's talking about. Just some perspective on why it may just not be possible to actually correct an invoice already generated. (You can argue that the bone heads designing the system should have thought of it. But since they probably didn't your second best choice is a credit on the next invoice).
Re:class action lawsuit in the works? (Score:5, Informative)
1) Nobody would work there.
2) A recording would do the job far better.
Basically, how it works is that you are told to give the customer accurate information to the best of your ability (although slanted in favour of the company). You also follow guidelines while in the call, to keep in accordance with company policy. You can get in trouble for going outside of those guidelines, but they are guidelines, not rules. The whole reason you are there, instead of a recording is to keep the customer happy.
Now, what I would have done in this case (and would have gotten full support from my supervisor), would have been to credit the ~$60 back to the customer's account, and inform him that he will see the credit on next month's bill. (We actually were only allowed to credit a maximum of $50 without going through the billing department, but the point remains).
No, I think the short and sweet of this story is that Verizon employs morons. (And just a tip, if you ever call Comcast, and get someone with a Texas accent, ask if they are from Lubbock. If they say "yes", then just hang up and call back).
Re:People are uneducated (Score:3, Informative)
But the precision is different.
If you have 0.46 or 0.54 you'd round both to 0.5. Now let's say we multiple:
0.5 * 2 = 1
0.46 * 2 = 0.92 ~ 0.9
0.54 * 2 = 1.08 ~ 1
With 0.50 we'd have:
0.50 * 2 = 1.0
0.496 * 2 = 0.992 ~ 1.0
0.504 * 2 = 1.008 ~ 1.0
So if 0.5 isn't your end result you're better off using 0.50 (or whatever the value is) for you calculations and only round at the end.
Re:legal to record? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:knowing verizon... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:knowing verizon... (Score:3, Informative)