Ancient Astronomical Computer Decoded

slimjim8094 writes "A mechanical device from 150BC was found in a shipwreck. Upon examination with X-Rays, the device appeared to be a revolutionary computer used to calculate lunar cycles. This device "is technically more complex than any known for at least a millennium afterward." From the article "The hand-operated mechanism, presumably used in preparing calendars for planting and harvesting and fixing religious festivals, had at least 30, possibly 37, hand-cut bronze gear-wheels, the researchers said. A pin-and-slot device connecting two gear-wheels induced variations in the representation of lunar motions according to the Hipparchos model of the Moon's elliptical orbit around Earth."

So it's an astrolabe?

[Anonymous Coward]

So it looks like an astrolabe, works like an astrolabe, but it's not, it's a computer?

I'm only in history 101, and I knew what it was from /. summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrolabe [wikipedia.org]

Re:So it's an astrolabe?

[jpardey]

Perhaps you should take some set theory. Astrolabes are subsets of computers, I would think. Perhaps the article is stretching the significance, but it is a device to perform calculations, like gun targeting computers, and Babbage's computational engines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_Computer [wikipedia.org]

Imagine if that ship hadn't wrecked

[Travoltus]

We might be 100-1000 years ahead of ourselves technologically by now...

*looks outside* Darn, still no flying cars!

Re:erm ...

[Anonymous Coward]

five days ago was thanksgiving weekend. puhleez don't tell me that you were browsing /..

Re:Not Again

[harlows_monkeys]

This has already been posted before

What was posted earlier was a pre-story. Basically, that this latest research had finished and was going to be presented at the end of the month. It has now been presented, and this story covers the details that were not covered in the pre-story.

Re:The Antikythera

[rxmd]

This device is fairly well known by now. Google generates 455.000 hits on the Antikythera and has more than 800 images, including a 2005 X-ray image at Wikipedia.

More so, Google generates more than 110 hits on the Antikythera on slashdot.org [google.com] (I hope the link is functioning this time)

Re:Imagine if that ship hadn't wrecked

[replicant108]

We might be 100-1000 years ahead of ourselves technologically by now...

Why would you assume that this was device was unique?

It seems much more likely that this kind of object was rare (ie, difficult and expensive to build) rather than unique.

It is important to remember that the ancients were just as intelligent as we are. In many cases they were also civilised and well-educated.

Ancient Engineering

[msobkow]

When you look at devices like this, the precision construction of the pyramids, the alignment of Stonehenge, and some of the Aztec and Mayan engineering in North America, it's pretty clear that the "primitive" people weren't as primitive as we might think.

Even without hard mathematics, a great deal of engineering can be done with simple tools:

• Circles are obvious -- a center pin, a string or rod, and the marker.
• Two center pins and a loop of string to make that ellipses.
• Estimation of position via chords
• Basic linear geometry via subdivision of angles -- taught to every high school student for years.

The interesting thing to me is that despite the varied religious and social backgrounds of the regions, every single case seemed to reserve that knowledge of basic engineering for some form of priesthood. Some say that this indicates there was a global or root religion, whether some form of Freemasonry, Kabal, Egyptian, or older religion.

Personally I think it's the obvious outgrowth of all those people living in a world that conforms to the same physical laws, properties, and geometry. No matter what language was used to describe the technique for inscribing a circle, the actual work done would have been the same.

I've even heard some people postulate that such primitive peoples "worshipped math and geometry". I suppose that's so in the largest scope, but I think it was a worship of knowledge and learning, not of mathematics per se.

It's also interesting how certain proportions and combinations of those basic shapes repeat across history and cultures. It's like we're hardwired to find those combinations comforting and familiar, no matter how they've been used.

Sinuous shapes are much less common. Only a few societies seem to have made regular use of constructs like "French curves" on a large scale, and only in more recent times. Combined with mythos of evil or powerful serpents and dragons, perhaps those symbols actually indicated rare individuals who could work with and visualize those formulas. After all, there is no denying that people working with advanced mathematics seem to intuit solutions, then prove the answer correct, or work through the details of the calculation.

Perhaps the "wizards" of old were those rare individuals, and the dragons they helped slay were actually charts and graphs predicting eclipses and such, misunderstood by peasants who saw scribblings on parchment or castle walls that they could only interpret as being pictures of some fantastical beast. :)

my guess: it was overly difficult to make

[brokeninside]

The decline of Greek culture started with the Roman conquest of the Greek empire. (Some would argue that it started with the emergence of a Greek empire itself.) Items like the Antikythera mechanism that took a highly skilled, well educated artisan with access to exceptionally good tools and high quality raw materials quite some time to make became more and more rare. Add this to the fact that such accuracy isn't really needed and a sufficiently well educated person could do the calculations for twenty years out in an evening and compose a list and you've got a really ingenuous solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Then combine this with the emergence of Christianity where the majority of feast days are calcuated on the solar calendar rather than the lunar calendar (with the sole exception of Easter and the feast days that are contingent on the date of Easter) and you don't really have any need for something like this.

Re:I knew it!

[Anonymous Coward]

Graham Hancock might be right about us being older, as a race, than we think we are.

No, it just shows how much damage to civilisation the Romans actualy did. This is an important point in the days of Pax Americana.

Re:Ancient Engineering

[msobkow]

In our case, it's been over a thousand years, longer than either Greece or arguably Rome.

Which modern "empires" would those be?

The US, Canada, and Australia are about 200 years old.

The EU has been broken and reformed in different countries and pacts repeatedly for a century. Only a few of the European countries have had anything like stable borders or socio-economic management styles (government.) Even the UK isn't 1000 years old.

The oldest cultures of Asia and India are still not stable socio-economic regions -- they've shifted and changed as much as anyone, even if they trace back their history and family lines a bit farther.

Realistically, I'd say we haven't been out of the dark ages of slavery and serfdom for more than a century. We're no where near as civilized as we'd like to pretend.

Re:I knew it!

[Scott7477]

"How much damage to civilization the Romans actualy did." I am rather perplexed by this statement. A list of contributions to civilization made by Rome could include:
-world class civil engineering: there are many structures built by Roman engineers still standing and a number are still in use
-the concept of republican government (and I mean in the sense of a body of legislators elected by citizens empowered to conduct community business; not the US political party)
-extensive body of literature and philosophy which forms much of the foundation of Western civilization today and is still relevant
-preserved Greek literature, structures, and philosophy and incorporated same into Roman culture
-demonstrated that a large political body composed of many regions incorporating a variety of cultures and races could be established and be stable and peaceful
I am not saying that Rome was perfect and obviously its society eventually became corrupt and thus vulnerable to destruction, but it is absurd to talk about Roman damage to civilization.