theodp writes "The WSJ has the behind-the-spaceport story on Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos' Texas land grab for his Blue Origin space tourism venture. Bezos deputized an attorney (who once handled Amazon SEC filings) to make ranchers offers they couldn't refuse (and can't talk about), acquiring property through corporate entities with monikers including 'James Cook L.P.,' 'Jolliet Holdings,' 'Coronado Ventures,' and 'Cabot Enterprises' — all named for famous explorers and all using the same address, c/o [Star Trek-monikered] Zefram LLC. BTW, FAA temporary flight restrictions are in effect for Blue Origin until Monday ('DUE TO ROCKET LAUNCH ACTIVITY'). Let's hope it's more successful than Blue Origin's maiden flight."
It's almost something like out of a comic book or a movie. Eccentric billionaire builds launch pad for private space flight, headline of the Daily Planet or something:)
Commercial space travel is just still so much in its infancy that it seems hard to imagine that someone is actually willing to invest such huge amounts rather than your average tinkering with miniature rockets kind of stuff.
Ever spend a winter in Wyoming, the Dakotas, or Montana? Farther south, you get a bigger window of decent weather to work with. You also have a better shot at attracting more people to work for you.
No kidding. I went on a long drive the last couple of weeks. The Eastward trip included those three states, and for the Westward part I went through Nebraska and Colorado instead. It's amazing how much difference it made in the temperature. Wyoming had snow and ice all over, and all three were bone-chillingly cold at night and/or if there was a lot of wind, which there usually was. And that was late fall, not winter.
Texas is also closer to the water, in case they need to ditch a rocket in the ocean. Historic
I hit a frickin blizzard in the mountains of western Wyoming...in June! I was stuck at a truck stop for 8 hours waiting for the road to become passable again.
In all likelihood because (1) launches closer to the equator (if memory serves) take less boost (2) most of the stuff on equator is either inconvenient or has various disadvantages from lack of long-term stability to lack of technical talent to infrastructure challenges (3) much better choice vis-a-vis huricanes, large stretches of open land than other southern US states (4) lots of resouces (technical, infrastructure, etc) in relatively close proximity (DFW, Houston, Austin/San Antonio) I can't say I really lik
Commercial space travel is just still so much in its infancy that it seems hard to imagine that someone is actually willing to invest such huge amounts
Do you have a better idea for how to get commercial space travel out of its infancy? Seems to me that, one way or another, large sums of money will have to be spent before we can fly into space as often as we fly across the ocean.
The mongo ski resort at Vail CO started out the same way: founder Pete Seibert bought up all the land in the Vail Valley from ranchers who thought he was opening a hunting and fishing preserve.
So he bought what? Half a county? Unless he's buying up land out east, where there are some darn small counties, e.g. Rockwall County, the average county has an area between nine hundred and a thousand square miles. If you factor in the counties in the Big Bend, 1000 is somewhat under the average.
Culberson County itself is big, with just over 3800 square miles. For the record, Brewster is the largest, with about 6900 square miles. 453 square miles is just over the size of the city limits of Dallas and doesn't hold a candle to Houston. See? Everything's bigger here.:)
In far west Texas, about the only thing the land is good for anymore is launching space ships. If he tried to do it any closer, the ranchers wouldn't sell (land's still viable) or it'd be too expensive (all the Californians, having b
He kept his identity a secret as is standard in most multi-property deals. The reason being that somebody could start a bidding war for some critical piece of land and potentially screw you out of a lot of money. As it was he paid a considerable amount for land that was suffering from a drought. The locals main complaint seems to be that he (a) won't support their local development ventures and (b) won't return their phone calls. The ones that got bought out sound happy enough. The only real part of this story was that Jeff Bezos purchased a plot of land in Texas for Blue Origin and that's not how it was spun.
"Great holy armies shall be gathered and trained to fight all who embrace evil. In the name of the gods, ships shall be built to carry our warriors out amongst the stars and we will spread Origin to all the unbelievers. The power of the Ori, will be felt far and wide and the wicked shall be vanquished."
Jeff "The Prior" Bezos will walk on the land they call Texas and they will accept Origin!
I can't believe they're canceling that show. I love that show! Amanda Tapping has got it going on. Claudia Black is fine too. Vanessa Angel is a fox. Now I'm bummed out.
Bezos bought some land and used various aliases to do so. So what? Did he defraud anyone?
The real problem is more profound:
Government protects property rights, that would not exist in the absence of government, as its primary function. Productive people (measured by income, capital gains, value added, sales, etc) are tired of being taxed to subsidize said protection, as well they should be. The largest single property right so protected is centralized ownership of land.
In the case of a land value tax (as opposed to a more general asset tax), these should make reference only to the land value of the home site and job site -- not the total asset value.
There are rumors coming out of the Bush Administration that the President was chased around his ranch by the ghost of Ronald Reagan before the election. The ghost supposedly said, "Look at what your 'youthfulness of inexperience' did to the country! Walter Mondale could've done a better job!":P
!FDC 6/6007 ZAB TX.. TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTION, VAN HORN TX. 1330-2000 DLY EFFECTIVE 0611121330 UTC UNTIL 0611132000 UTC. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.143 FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT DUE TO ROCKET LAUNCH ACTIVITY WITHIN A 5 NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS OF 312515N/1044515W OR THE SALT FLAT/SFL/ VORTAC 127 DEGREE RADIAL AT 25.9 NAUTICAL MILES SFC TO 10000 FT MSL. BLUE ORGIN COMPANY, TELEPHONE 253-437-9367, IS IN CHARGE OF THE OPERATION. ALBUQUERQUE ARTCC/ZAB/, TELEPHONE 505-856-4500, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY.
The way this is presented "Bezos messes with Texas" is soooooo negative. If the man wants to buy land what's the problem? You don't like it - you go buy the land to stop him. Remember, Walt Disney did exactly the same thing when he accumulated land for Walt Disney World in Orlando. Want something to complain and whine about -- go back to that purchase a few years ago where Manhatten Island was had for a few shiny trinkets.... perhaps a rebate is due there? Don't forget the nasty work that local governments are up to with their powers of eminent domain; buy up properties that have been in families for many, many years to let their developer-buddies line their pockets and provide campaign contributions in return. Now *that's corrupt in my book.
Like everything else, if these guys ever get it together and actually launch something, it's going to be in Calif*. Calif* is where the customers are, where the investors are, where every single business venture ends up. It doesn't matter how over crowded or expensive it is. Some kind of biological programming requires every investment to be crammed into one state.
Like everything else, if these guys ever get it together and actually launch something, it's going to be in Calif*. Calif* is where the customers are, where the investors are, where every single business venture ends up. It doesn't matter how over crowded or expensive it is. Some kind of biological programming requires every investment to be crammed into one state.
This is simply not true.
Mass [neweconomyindex.org] was higher - at least in 2002 and Colorado was only slightly behind.
James Rouse did the same thing in Maryland in the 1960s and yielded Columbia, Maryland. This is hardly an original trick. Wake me when someone has a new idea.
A more honest article would discuss how Bezos isn't allowing the town to profit off of his purchases aside from the property deals themselves. From the article they wanted to approach him about building a museum about his project to attract some tourism, they wanted to know how many jobs his enterprise would generate.
The main point I picked up is that he is insulated with lawyers to keep from being harassed by people in a depressed region desperate to make a buck off of him.
Messing with Texas"? Come on...its normal for the business to be done this way when you are buying lots of land from many sellers.
It has, after all, been done before [go.com]...
In all likelihood it's going to be a very short hop, sort of like the things Armadillo Aerospace has been doing. They probably just want to verify their ability to launch and land, not necessarily test things out to capacity.
Discovery Channel's Mythbusters got clearance to 10,000 feet for their salami rocket test, the thing flew only 20 feet but it still counted as a rocket launch.
Easy; follow the money. The FAA knows that they could never get away with bullying the airlines to the degree that they push around general aviation with TFRs and other BS.
If you RTFA you will see that he is paying ~$250/ acre. It is above market value but it is not really that much money for someone that rich. In fact he probably found the $7.5 M that he paid one rancher inside the cushions of his couch. If I am reading the FA correctly, he has purchased 5 to 10 ranches - each of about 30 to 60 k Acres - about 300 k acres in total. This is about $ 75 M. For someone with $4.3 B this is close to chump change. He probably earns more then that from Amazon (including options and stock value) each year. Remember Amazon is only about 10 years old - so he has averaged ~$400 M each year.
by Anonymous Coward
on Saturday November 11 2006, @03:22PM (#16807452)
...than I would have thought. I guess if most sellers set their prices based on how rich the buyer is, most buyers would rather buy anonymously. This is the best explanation of Bezos' actions that I can figure.
I guess if most sellers set their prices based on how rich the buyer is, most buyers would rather buy anonymously. This is the best explanation of Bezos' actions that I can figure.
Not just that, but if it becomes well-known that a rich buyer, especially if it's a large company, is making a land grab, a few property owners could basically extort the buyer for more cash. That is, the current owner could say to the buyer, "I know you're trying to buy up all this land for some important reason, and I know y
Actually in some of the early days of the railroads, Huntington would send his agent over to make you an offer on your property. It was typically lowball. If you refused to sell, the agent would politely say goodbye, and then the boys with the pick handles would come in and beat you and your family to death. Then, after allowing a few days for the news to travel, they'd visit the next property owner, who would be happy to sell for the lowball price.
Today, they'd just use eminent domain (which would probably
I'm sure Mr. B is not particularly worried about overpaying for that land. (Compared to farm and cattle land in say, Ohio that is some dirt-cheap dirt!)
That is the best reason for rich - sliding over obstacles to your wild-ass goals on a thin film of filthy, filthy lucre.:-)
I guess if most sellers set their prices based on how rich the buyer is, most buyers would rather buy anonymously.
The reality is that most sellers DO set their prices based on how rich the buyer is - or change the price darned quick if they find out a buyer is rich. Oh umm we're not sure we want to sell anymore (cough) but we might settle for _this_...
And most rich people DO buy through corporations and third parties. For a lot of reasons (including taxes), but th
Yeah, I've heard rumours that Amazon is having issues with renting new spaces - lots of property owners are jacking up the rent when they find out it's them. I still want to go work there - especially if I could get bizcards that say 'Rocket Surgeon' and be sort of right.
He knows that he can get a better price by not identifying himself, and it's his prerogative to do so. A billionaire is just as entitled to shop for a bargain as anyone else.
It's the same thing Walt Disney did in Orlando to build Disey World. You want to offer people a fair, above average price, but don't want them taking advantage of your "notariety" as a billionare to make unreasonable demands.
Kinda cool (Score:4, Interesting)
Why Texas? (Score:2)
Any specific reason? I think land in some of those spots would be even cheaper..... but probably even more desolate.
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I went on a long drive the last couple of weeks. The Eastward trip included those three states, and for the Westward part I went through Nebraska and Colorado instead. It's amazing how much difference it made in the temperature. Wyoming had snow and ice all over, and all three were bone-chillingly cold at night and/or if there was a lot of wind, which there usually was. And that was late fall, not winter.
Texas is also closer to the water, in case they need to ditch a rocket in the ocean. Historic
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Wyoming weather sucks the big one.
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(1) launches closer to the equator (if memory serves) take less boost
(2) most of the stuff on equator is either inconvenient or has various disadvantages from lack of long-term stability to lack of technical talent to infrastructure challenges
(3) much better choice vis-a-vis huricanes, large stretches of open land than other southern US states
(4) lots of resouces (technical, infrastructure, etc) in relatively close proximity (DFW, Houston, Austin/San Antonio)
I can't say I really lik
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(0) Bezos is from Texas. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Bezos#Early_lif
Other factors may enter into it, but I suspect that he saw the list of potential places and picked Texas as his favorite.
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Do you have a better idea for how to get commercial space travel out of its infancy? Seems to me that, one way or another, large sums of money will have to be spent before we can fly into space as often as we fly across the ocean.
Much like Vail (Score:2)
rj
Messed with Texas? (Score:2)
290,000 acers = 453 sq miles = Texas size project area.
Re:Messed with Texas? (Score:4, Funny)
Nooo... 290,000 acers = a whole lot of plastic, but where's the AC Adapter? Dangit!
Parent
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See? Everything's bigger here.
In far west Texas, about the only thing the land is good for anymore is launching space ships. If he tried to do it any closer, the ranchers wouldn't sell (land's still viable) or it'd be too expensive (all the Californians, having b
And? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Origin, Jeff "The Prior" Bezos (Score:3, Funny)
Jeff "The Prior" Bezos will walk on the land they call Texas and they will accept Origin!
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Bezos's property rights (Score:2, Offtopic)
The real problem is more profound:
Government protects property rights, that would not exist in the absence of government, as its primary function. Productive people (measured by income, capital gains, value added, sales, etc) are tired of being taxed to subsidize said protection, as well they should be. The largest single property right so protected is centralized ownership of land.
Bezos could really stomp on
Erratum: Bezos's property rights (Score:2)
Bozo gone to Texas... (Score:2)
The FAA NOTAM (Notice To Airmen) (Score:5, Informative)
Land Grab indeed. (Score:4, Insightful)
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go back to that purchase a few years ago where Manhatten Island was had for a few shiny trinkets
Well duh. They guys who sold it lived in Brooklyn. If some yahoo came up and offered to buy the island next door to you, wouldn't you sell it to him?
Time to move to Calif* (Score:2)
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This is simply not true. Mass [neweconomyindex.org] was higher - at least in 2002 and Colorado was only slightly behind.
James Rouse did that in the 1960s (Score:2)
A more honest article (Score:2, Insightful)
The main point I picked up is that he is insulated with lawyers to keep from being harassed by people in a depressed region desperate to make a buck off of him.
This isn't new... (Score:2)
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Or they just want to avoid curious people in their piper-cubs and cessnas from having a peek...
Because it's only going to 2000 feet. (Score:3, Informative)
This is a VTO/VL test. The first few DC-X flights were similar.
Re:It's not like he's using eminent domain (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
I guess your attitude may be more common... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
extortion (Score:2, Insightful)
Not just that, but if it becomes well-known that a rich buyer, especially if it's a large company, is making a land grab, a few property owners could basically extort the buyer for more cash. That is, the current owner could say to the buyer, "I know you're trying to buy up all this land for some important reason, and I know y
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Then, after allowing a few days for the news to travel, they'd visit the next property owner, who would be happy to sell for the lowball price.
Today, they'd just use eminent domain (which would probably
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Alleluja.
I'm sure Mr. B is not particularly worried about overpaying for that land. (Compared to farm and cattle land in say, Ohio that is some dirt-cheap dirt!)
That is the best reason for rich - sliding over obstacles to your wild-ass goals on a thin film of filthy, filthy lucre.
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The reality is that most sellers DO set their prices based on how rich the buyer is - or change the price darned quick if they find out a buyer is rich. Oh umm we're not sure we want to sell anymore (cough) but we might settle for _this_...
And most rich people DO buy through corporations and third parties. For a lot of reasons (including taxes), but th
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So what? (Score:4, Insightful)
-jcr
Parent
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Actually I was thinking about The Man who Sold the Moon by RAH. The character in that book had similar problems launching over inhabited land.
An alien who wanted to get into orbit these days would just buy a ticket from the Russians.