Why Don't You Sleep On It? 318
thefirelane wrote to mention a New Scientist study that indicates your subconscious mind is a better decision maker than you are. From the article: "The research suggests the conscious mind should be trusted only with simple decisions, such as selecting a brand of oven glove. Sleeping on a big decision, such as buying a car or house, is more likely to produce a result people remain happy with than consciously weighing up the pros and cons of the problem, the researchers say. Thinking hard about a complex decision that rests on multiple factors appears to bamboozle the conscious mind so that people only consider a subset of information, which they weight inappropriately, resulting in an unsatisfactory choice. In contrast, the unconscious mind appears able to ponder over all the information and produce a decision that most people remain satisfied with."
Brighter in the morning? (Score:5, Interesting)
Shower Smarts, Too! (Score:2, Interesting)
I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that when I take a shower (and go into a more relaxed state), I am hit with great ideas and solutions for problems. This is a very strong, repeated experience for me. I sometimes think I should bathroom tile my work cube, but this "subconscious thinking" thing makes way more sense.
P.S. C'mon, no jokes about what one may do in the shower to be relaxed. I preemptively strike at you!
This fits in nicely with another finding (Score:5, Interesting)
This fits in nicely with another finding that seems amazing when you first hear about it, but is obviously true:
People spend more conscious thinking time on a choice when it doesn't really matter.
Hard to believe, right? You'd think we would think long and hard about things that matter (in the sense that one or the other of the choices will be far better or worse than the other) and not waste time on choices where the outcome is pretty much the same regardless of what we decided. But that's not, in fact, how we operate.
If you give people a choice between, say, being paid a dollar or getting hit with a stick, they make up their minds much quicker than if (to choose an example at the other end of the spectrum) you let them pick a candy out of a box of identical chocolates. You can even induce the effect; people will eat potato chips out of a bag one after another without even looking at them, but if you spread the same chips out on the table and ask "which chip do you want to eat next?" so that it becomes something they have to decide they will generally slow to a crawl.
--MarkusQ
The summary is a bit misleading (Score:5, Interesting)
If they don't know they're going to have to make a choice after their distraction, their subconscious won't do anything special.
This is just the same old story where if you have a problem, go think about something else & your subconscious will work it out for you. It's nice to see scientific proof for something that I've always considered anecdotal.
My last thought: Some people are better at making snap decisions and some people only think they are good at it. It takes a real man to be able to admit he needs to mull things over... which is why high-pressure sales tactics often work.
Re:Brighter in the morning? (Score:3, Interesting)
In these tests, the researchers gave a complex choice, made the people do math or anagram problems, then decide. The sleeping part was just an inference, but the research concluded allowing the non-active parts of your brain to work on something was beneficial (this is what I heard on NPR, as a supplement to the article)
A Two-fer... (Score:4, Interesting)
Happy Friday.
Not Surprising (Score:3, Interesting)
Subconscious at work. (Score:2, Interesting)
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Many people misunderstand or underestimate the power of the subconscious mind. Your conscious being is only a small fraction of who you really are. Just as the human brain has unmeasured amounts of unrealized potential, similarly the subconscious mind has an almost immeasurable effect on your conscious decision making.
Lucid dreaming is one of the most concrete examples of the subconscious mind at work - people have solved waking problems such as phobias or unresolved stresses by encountering and questioning dream figures. It's a well-documented scientific phenomenon.
This page [web-us.com] has some general information about lucidity and use of the subconscious.
Interesting Research (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll start with a personal story. I tend to take a long time to purchase an automobile. In 1998, for example, I decided it was time to buy a new car. The automobile I owned was 7 years old and starting to show problems. I began by doing some reading. GM gave me the opportunity to briefly test drive a number of models at one time. After doing that, I reviewed automotive literature (e.g., Car and Driver) about what was available and what the staff thought of various automobiles. I was beginning to be inclined to a moderately economical sports model. C&D said nice things about the Camaro. Months passed. I read some more. Looked at a Toyota and a Honda. They were a bit more than I wanted to spend. Finally, a local dealer was running a sale. I showed up and found out I could get an even bigger discount because my company was a nonautomotive GM subsidiary. I wound up with a new Camaro at a great price. Over the next five years my mechanic told me the car, with proper maintenance, would last 200K miles. I was a bit surprised at that. Anyway, the automobile was more than satisfactory.
Then in 2004 I was rear ended -- badly by a truck. The car was declared a total loss. Since I hadn't even been thinking of buying a new vehicle, I was thrown for a loop. The other guy's insurance company gave me three days to get a replacement vehicle. I asked friends what to do. They advised me to buy a second hand Camaro from a reputable dealer. That's what I did. I'm still happy with the replacement. Still, though, I think I would be happier if the insurance company had given me more time to think about what I would do. I could see myself going with a new Toyota or Honda, rather than an identical vehicle. Since I wasn't given the time, though, I simply repeated my decision of five years earlier.
People in my area (Washington, DC) are stressed out from too much to do and too little sleep. I see people making all sorts of decisions that are at best unwise, at worst destructive. Sleeping on a decision, taking the "luxury" of time, both conscious and unconscious, would, I think, improve the quality of decision making around here. Some of us do manage to do that. I can see better results by doing that rather than the mode where people are always "on." 24/7 looks like folly, not dedication.
Isn't that always the way? (Score:3, Interesting)
At least for me, this is always the way. After a certain point, there is nothing to be gained from continuing to bach away at something. Do something else; play with something; get some sleep and look at it fresh in the morning. I always like to have a couple of background projects at work for just this purpose. Some of them have actually turned out to be useful.
Reminds me of the job offer that produced my current position. I told my boss-to-be that the offer was good and I was inclined to accept it. But on general principles I would sleep on it and make it official the next morning.
Reminds me also of a spectral analysis simulation I did in one of my grad courses. One part of it just didn't work. The results were nonsensical, but I had a deadline, wrote it up anyway, and included a mention that the results in one section were suspect. I then did other things over the weekend, looked at it again, saw the problem immediately, reran the simulation, got good results, wrote them up and handed them in. The professor was pleased, saying that this was just what a grad student should do. I got an A in the course.
...laura
Unconscious Decision Making (Score:2, Interesting)
Seems like its not that the subconcious mind makes better decisions, but that the subconcious mind can make your life miserable if it disagrees.
Regarding big decisions (Score:3, Interesting)
I find that in the mornings I'm prepared for all out war. Take on the big fish, sue the bastards who need suing, fight for every last dime that's mine, buy low sell high, haggle with the insurance company for lower premiums, uphold civil liberties, take the principled stand.
At night? Be cautious. Don't make noise. Try to work things out amicably. Or just surrender. Run from the fights. Sure, you can search my bag, officer.
Knowing that I am this way, how can I make any decision at all that I can live with? Just bust a fuck-it, I guess.
Alternate theory (Score:5, Interesting)
That isn't to say you can't figure stuff out while asleep. I'm still glad my brain decided to solve a differential equation while sleeping. I sure wasted enough time working on it awake.
So who know. Maybe it's a constantly changing mix of solving and acceptance.
Re:emotions vs logic (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sleep vs. Meditation (Score:2, Interesting)
From what I understand (and I'll be cruicified for sure if I'm wrong) , the lag between the point where a memory is retreived based on some sort of stimulation (i.e. you smell a perfume your high school girlfriend used to wear) and the time you become aware you've even remembered it is staggering by brain measuring standards.
Apparently this is the transition from gut instinct to rational thought. If no established pattern exists in your wiring to relate that type of memory to that type of stimulation then "all you have to go on is a gut instinct".
So the notion that you may make better decisions while your brain's initrd is still loading isn't just showing how cool of a machine you have in your head
I'd post a link, unfortunately the article I'm basing this on is in a Scientific American, and that could be one of many. I'm motivated only to post, not to get out of my chair.
Why do things get discovered over and over? (Score:3, Interesting)
Isn't this how our economy works? (Score:5, Interesting)
Trying to find real information on a product is sometimes very difficult. Instead of making better products, companies make a cheaper product and spend a little more on marketing to promote it.
blah blah blah... im getting offtopic...
I think it's an issue of context. I don't think it's that you're sleeping on it, but rather you are thinking about the issue outside the context of marketing and environmental pressures. Removing something from context generally allows you to see that thing more clearly.
People do not know how to make decisions (Score:2, Interesting)
One of the best courses that I have completed was a US Army one. It was CAS3 (Combined Arms and Services Staff School). They taught a formal method which deals with identifying possible solutions, identifying screening criteria (which removes solutions that are not viable), identifying evaluation criteria (which allows you to compare one aspect of a solution to another solution), weighting the evaluation criteria, and determining the best solution.
This is a method where it is possible to avoid comparing apples to oranges, and compare apples to apples, i.e. Car A is cheaper than Car B, but Car B has better fuel economy. You compare the cost of Car A to Car B and the fuel economy of Car A to Car B. Furthermore, because you have identified fuel economy as more important than cost, Car B should be the winner (absent any other evaluation criteria).
It is a little more complicated that that, but that is the Reader's Digest version. While this is not the only method to solve complex problems (including non-military ones), it is one that is not too difficult to use (with practice) and it works.
For further reading, see FM 5-0 (Chapter 2 covers it, but not in much detail) or, if you can find it, "52d Infantry Division & Fort Riley Staff Officer's Guide" (Chapter 5, Decision Briefing Example covers the steps of the analysis quite well).
Ancient custom? (Score:5, Interesting)
In this way, a person could get to know the potential business partner or in-law, learn how they do things when their guard was down at least a bit, and find out whether they can get along as people; and get the basic facts and factors of the decision.
Then, after sleeping on it and 'digesting' the information, they could use their more analytical daytime-brain to go over what they might not have thought of the night before. In the end, one might say that each side of their brain had the chance to contribute to the decision. (Since the two hemispheres of male brains as a generality are be less well connected than those of females, I would argue that this strategy may be especially useful for men.
I wish I recalled more detail but it was just a page or so of a book or article, and I don't even recall what the book was about.
Decision making made easy (Score:4, Interesting)
A complex decision is a whole bunch of trade-offs, profit-and-loss variables. Each variable has a probability associated with it, and they can cascade together. I use a system of "expected value" summations, and it works pretty well.
For instance, in buying a car there is the price (and the 100% likelihood that you'll have to pay it), a set of features, and a set of unknown costs (maintenance), and a set of emotional value points (prestige, convenience, dependability). Each of the costs has a probability that you'll incur it, and each of the values has a probability that you'll receive it. Some of them are related, and may need to be refactored to make the math work out for you.
You multiply each of the costs and outcomes (positive and negative) with their value to you (on some scale of your choosing) and their probability of occurring, and sum them all up. That choice gets a score.
Compare the score from all of the other choices you could make, and your decision is made.
The nice thing about this system is that by breaking down the fuzzy-factor "value" for each outcome and pairing it with a probability, you see the real cost for each while simultaneously hiding the answer from yourself. Subconciously you will tend to favor the choice you want to make, but be careful that you don't fudge the probabilities.
As a simple example, consider recreational sky-diving. The value you get from jumping -- a rush, some prestige, and maybe some sex out of it somehow -- compares with a (call it) 99% probability of landing safely and a (call it) 1% probability of landing with a splat.
For me, I assign a pretty high value to keeping my skin intact. How much would I pay someone not to flatten my skull?
stay on ground = free + 0 (death from falling) + 0 (fun)
= 0
skydiving = -$50 +
= -$50 - 1/100 (very big number) +
= (probably something negative, and I have to pay 50 bucks).
As a side note, you can see that the resultant costs of a decision and the cost to make it happen are just two labels for the same thing. That is, whether something is a cost or benefit is just the sign on the term.
Nothing new about that (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:That's ``unconscious'' (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm pretty big in to consciousness. To me, that is all there is. Cognito ergo sum. "I think, therefor I am" for the english version.
To me, there are 3ish states of consciousness. Altered state of consciousness, via chemicals either natural (mental "disorders") or introduced (chemicals). Unconscious, which is "not conscious". An example is "superstitious behavior", where a person may do something repeatedly with no conscious awareness of it. One example would be when a person has a bad tooth or something, and the unconsciously try to cover the bad tooth with their lip. 99% of the time, the person will disagree with you if you tell them that they are doing the unconscious thing because, well they are not conscious of it. Another example of unconscious behavior in humans is that girls are more likely to wear tight, revealing shirts, optionally with their belly exposed when they are at the peak of their menstrual fertility. Then there is "subconscious", which is like intuition. You may look around and see something that you are not conscious of, but make a decision based on the observation. This could be something like smell. Humans are not very good sniffers, but they can tell things like dominance and fertility of others via smell, but not be consciously aware of it. They will however behave according to the smell data or whatnot.
Granted, there is no clear distinction between unconscious and subconscious. If I get smashed in the head, and fall unconscious, that is not subconscious. To me, the distinction between unconscious and subconscious, is that unconscious simply does not have conscious involvement. It just happens. Subconscious creeps into consciousness and a decision is based on the "subconscious" data, but there may not be any conscious thought of the subconsciously observed thing.
Re:No big surprise... (Score:5, Interesting)
Meanwhile, they lose thousands in financial investments that were entered too hastily, and are jealous of the fun vacations and outings we do -- with less income -- while they wait for the perfect opportunity to come along. Usually, being able to ignore unimportant problems is a big asset.
Re:Shower Smarts, Too! (Score:1, Interesting)
Alan Watts was saying this in the 1960s... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Isn't this how our economy works? (Score:2, Interesting)
This is the way of the Tao (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the way of the Tao.
Analytical Intuition (Score:3, Interesting)
When making big decisions, I sometimes make exhaustive analytical charts in which I list factors making a choice, numerically weight factors in relationship to each other, and assign values for how each option satisfies that factor.... and then sit back and watch myself tweak and adjust the weights and values. Almost inevitably, I catch myself fudging the data to favor one option over the others; that's the option I choose. So I do genuinely evaluate objective criteria as I consider the question, but I give my subjective intuition the final say. And I've always been reasonably satisfied with the choices I've made this way.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2, Interesting)
For example, the book said that playing an instrument for only a few minutes is better, and repeating the task only 3 times is more than enough. The next session will yeild surprisingly better results. If I wanted to play a high note on a trumpet, then I would play it only 3 times successfully in a row, and then quit. The next time around, the next highest note would automatically be achievable, and then I would go at it for 3 times, etc.
The idea is that your mind has had a chance to learn the next note, but the body is too tired in this session to play it. So, attempting it while your body is tired would only develop bad technique. That's not to say that the training has to end. If you want, you could train on other aspects, like a new musical phrase, that doesn't involve those high notes, etc.
I'm sure that problem solving has similar obstacles.
That being said, I agree with what the others have said about attacking a problem for a minimum amount of time. It all depends on the nature of the problem, and how many factors are involved.
Re:Brighter in the morning? (Score:3, Interesting)
(I think when you had a TRS-80 I had a TI-99 4/A. wooo!)