More Bad News About Global Warming 852
IZ Reloaded writes "A UK govt report says that greenhouse gases may have more serious impacts that previously thought. Greenhouse gases it says, is causing global warming at a rate that is unsustainable. From BBC: The European Union has adopted a target of preventing a rise in global average temperature of more than two Celsius. That, according to the report, might be too high, with two degrees being enough to trigger melting of the Greenland ice sheet.... A rise of two Celsius, researchers conclude, will be enough to cause:
* Decreasing crop yields in the developing and developed world
* Tripling of poor harvests in Europe and Russia
* Large-scale displacement of people in north Africa from desertification
* Up to 2.8bn people at risk of water shortage
* 97% loss of coral reefs
* Total loss of summer Arctic sea ice causing extinction of the polar bear and the walrus
* Spread of malaria in Africa and north America"
Who's still denying it these days? (Score:5, Interesting)
We, north of that country, just barely (and fortunately) elected a government who feels the same way.
We're having a winter heat wave here in Southern Ontario while our summers have been bloody unbearable with bad air days...weeks, high humidity and high temperatures while massive flooding and totally untypical weather hits different parts of the world.
Exactly, what are these folks not seeing when it comes to denying global warming?
Collate = hand pick (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Who's still denying it these days? (Score:1, Interesting)
Because the data does not show that. Are you old enough to remember the discussion of this issue before it became so polarized and politicized? You didn't hear anyone talk about global warming. All of the talk was about global cooling since that's what the temperature data shows is happening. Many magazines, including Newsweek, Time, and National Geographic ran many stories about global cooling. When I taught sixth grade, our science textbook went into great detail about global cooling. I taught the concept of graphs from a set of huge (about 4' by 3') laminated posters I had that showed actual temperature data from North America and Antarctica that showed global cooling. The author of the study that the graphs were generated from was even on Johnny Carson.
Since then a group of scientists with an anti-business agenda have been pushing their agenda to try to hurt businesses. Think about the fact that scientists are talking about global cooling and political activists with no science background are the ones screaming about global warming.
Re:Can't Hear You (Score:2, Interesting)
You search for more (though I know you won't since it doesn't paint GWBush as the source of all evil).
Something tells me that increased solar activity has more to do with global warming. But hey, let's destroy the world economy and probbaly the adversity that would spurn us to find fossil fuel replacements in the first place.
Political Implications (Score:3, Interesting)
The US population is aging and having fewer kids. The European population is aging even faster and having even fewer kids. Except that the European Arabs are young and having lots of kids. Mix it all together and let me know if you figure it out...
Reply (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not sure if I feel sorry for these people or myself. These people will be dead in 30-40 years so not see the worse of it, I on the other hand have another 50-60 if I keep myself in a good condition. If the current models are correct I should exprience quite extreme weather by the time I get old enough for a brisk cold to be quite risky for my heatlh..
Profit comes before damage if you're not going to live to see the damage it's self.
Re:so, (Score:1, Interesting)
If you are religious and believe in an afterlife, you are proven right if there is one. And you can mock all atheists and infidels. However if there isn't an afterlife, you will never know (you are dead after all) and us atheists can't make fun of you.
They run around believing all will be well and go to heaven and what not, and when they are dead they know nothing more. Us atheists on the other hand know there won't be a booming sound from the sky making it all right, but still suffer from those idiots who think there will be.
Lately, I am starting to believe that ignorance is bliss. Just to be a tinier bit stupider and walk around utterly unaware of pending doom (global warming, peak oil, american presidents, everyone wanting to have nukes, bird flu, astroids we can see coming and do nothing (yet) about, clean water supplies, etc).
So DO something about it (Score:5, Interesting)
Here in New York (USA), the energy sector has been decentralized, so we can choose our suppliers for electricity. I've chosen one that is entirely based on wind and hydro power. Sure, it costs me an extra $10-$20/month, but it is one small thing that _I_ can do.
We keep looking to governments to impose a change on us, but what are we doing about it for ourselves?
Re:We need to act now (Score:3, Interesting)
China *did* sign the treaty, as another. fellow posted. But, what's more important, because China is a 'developing' country, it is not bound by Kyoto. So, they can pollute to their heart's content, as can any other 'developing' nation. This, to me, shows the hypocracy of Kyoto. The US is already more efficient than China in dealing with its pollution (though it may produce more), but people complain when we don't sign the treaty. Other nations are already starting to complain about the economic detriments of Kyoto.
Also, I don't agree that mankind is responsible for global warming. There's entirely too much evidence supporting that this is just the part of a regular cycle that is on the upswing. I recall an article that showed solar output is a greater influcencer of earth climate than man. I've read articles that say that volcanos produce more CFCs than man does.
Re:Why these predictions are wrong (Score:2, Interesting)
and you're basing that on what? the last 45 years of emission trends?
Yes, the world is going to warm a couple of degrees, and sea levels will rise a few feet. No, this will not be the apocalypse.tell that to the Dutch. or Bangladesh. or anywhere with-lying coastal regions, anywhere that relies on specific ocean currents (eg. North Western Europe) for it's current climate, anywhere... well, just anywhere, really. It's not a simple matter of places getting warmer - Britain is likely to get much colder if the Gulf Stream is affected, which it quite probably will be when the sea temperature rises. No-one can really predict exactly what is going to happen, but it's pretty certain it won't be good for most people.
Re:Some government-sponsored sensationalism, anyon (Score:3, Interesting)
First off, I have read the papers.
Second, as you may have heard elsewhere, correlation is not causation.
Third, while the CO2 rises from those studies are large, they are not accompanied by a correspondingly large rise in global temperatures. In fact, I recall at least one study that expressed surprise at how small the temperature rise was compared to the rise in CO2 levels.
Fourth, the rises in temperature since the onset of the Industrial Revolution are significantly less than those (documented in those very same studies you mention) from various periods in pre-industrial and in pre-human times.
So my question remains: What evidence is there that takes the factors I mentioned into account that supports the idea that humans affect global temperatures?
It's all been predicted already (Score:5, Interesting)
Therefore forget the instant freeze of "The day after tomorrow" and prepare for the instant flood.
Companies have only one goal:get rich quick.
Nobody would build a hybrid with a 120V socket capable to drive power tools and a microwave. That's because it would kill some of the same company's other business: Portable generators, regular cars, trucks and SUVs. (Not to mention the housing business since you could live in your car in style!)
You won't see a solar rechargeable Cell phone/MP3/Flashlight/am~fm radio/garage door openner/Car key for at least 40 years. Why? because it would kill the disposable battery business. (BTW: did you know that a AA has more juice than a C or D cell! look at the specs on the rechargeables.)
It's all about creating waste to for us to consume more to drive profits.
Were all gonna drown for these assholes' profits.
Re:Can't Hear You (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, lets. The heart of the problem is that politicians (especially Bush) want to ignore global warming, and are tied to the oil industry for funding.
Bush has nothing to do with America using renewable energy, and I'm sure he'd like them to stop, and use oil supplied by his favourite companies instead.
Re:I've heard worse (Score:3, Interesting)
So if Greenland gets greener and warmer...
Re:Can't Hear You (Score:2, Interesting)
Something may well tell you that. But it isn't science.
Not science eh, then please exlplain the reason that the ice caps on Mars are melting. It's been a pretty steady decline in ice according to the rover that we have had over there for the last 8 years. I'm sure Global Warming is a problem over there with all the gas guzzling martians pumping out CO2, eh?
Re:The key issue is... (Score:5, Interesting)
So what? We can't figure out what's causing it so we are gonna ignore it? Stop throwing this "we don't even know what causes it" smokescreen around and spend some time thinking about what we do agree on. It is happening and no matter what else, that is NOT a good thing!
Perhaps a report claiming even more dire issues or a faster occurence of them?
Don't even start with that "we don't agree on the effects" bullshit either. We all agree that it ain't good for us. The specifics of our troubles are not important. This is a boondoggle that does nothing but obscure the real point. We are in trouble and we need to start fixing it.
China is coming up like the old Eastern Soviet states did, ramping up without regard for the environment or people around them.
China has just recently begun correcting many of their environmental policies. They spent the better part of 3 decades ramping up industry without concern for the environment, but the government is trying to fix the problem. The people are even rioting over the pollution issue now. They are trying, which is more than I can say for us in the U.S.
Kyoto did not do this and that invalidates it.
I agree, but it's retarded to walk away from the table as Bush did over the problems with Kyoto. It suggests that he doesn't want to see the problem addressed. If you have a problem with a treaty, you don't say "Fuck it, that sucks so I'm outta here". You say "That sucks. Let's try this instead." You negotiate a better treaty. The fact that he walked away without so much as trying that speaks volumes about his underlying intent and motives.
Blaming the issue of non-compliance on oil and republicans is just playing stupid politics.
No one is playing politics here but you. I voted for Bush in 2000. I have no agenda against him or his party. But he has screwed up and he is playing fast-and-loose with our environment in a dangerous way. It's just "playing politics" to ignore that and throw up obfusticating arguments to the contrary.
FYI, I did not vote for him in 2004. I don't like being lied to and I don't hold any allegiance to any political party.
Re:Can't Hear You (Score:0, Interesting)
Science did, it was the axis tilting, mars needs a bigger moon to stabalize it's axis.
Saying global warming doesn't exist is like saying the dinosours didn't exist and that god put the bones in the ground to confuse us; It is in direct conflict with a mountain of scientific evidence. The global temprature is rising, and even if the result of a climate cycle, we know greenhouse gasses are able to contribure to the retention of planetary heat. From an objective point of view humans are a part of the natural fauna of the earth, so whatever we do is "natrual", the question is: do we really want the consiquences of aiding the global tempreture rise? there are any other number of reasons not to pollute with fossil fules/greengouse gasses, most are similar to the reasons for not taking a shit on the floor of your living room; you don't want shit on the floor that's gross. Similarly I like non-acidic rain, and fresh air I can breath, I also dislike smog, so I don't drive cars(at all, ever).
Re:I've heard worse (Score:2, Interesting)
The earth, however, for the last few hundred thousand years has not seen these levels of CO2, ever. Also, the temperature lags CO2 levels.
Antarctic Ice Core Data [daviesand.com]
Be sure to look at the graph on the second page.
Re:Wake up Americans (Score:4, Interesting)
Tell that to Luxembourg.
Well if you had the slightest idea about Luxembourg, you'd know it's not only a very small country, but also one which has about half of it's workforce come into the country across the borders every day. If you added those people into the calculation, per-capita consumption would be much much lower. The same goes for tobacco and alcohol btw. And yes, those foreigners do buy their stuff in Luxembourg, since it's much cheaper there than in their own countries, due to lower taxes.
Disclaimer: Yes, I'm from Luxembourg