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Comments: 447 +- Science: E-Paper On Cereal Boxes on Thursday December 15 2005, @02:55PM
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technology
coastin writes "Wired Mag has an article about electronics maker Siemens,
readying a paper-thin electronic-display technology. They say
it is so cheap it could replace conventional labels on disposable
packaging. Imagine items on grocer's shelves that flash commercials
at you as you walk by. From the article: 'When kids see flashing
pictures on cereal boxes we don't expect them to just ask for the
product, but to say, "I want it", said Axel Gerlt, an engineer
at Siemens tasked with helping packaging companies implement the
technology.'"
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Do more than anyone expects, and pretty soon everyone will expect more.
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Can you think of a better way (Score:5, Insightful)
Underrated (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Underrated (Score:4, Insightful)
We're talking about advertisers intentionally making it *more* difficult for parents to instill discipline in their children, and you're blaming the parents?!
Reality check: being a parent of a two-year-old and a six-month-old means that you are devoting approximately 30% of your processor time already to making sure that the kids aren't (a) harming themselves, (b) harming others, (c) making a mess, (e) being properly fed and clothed, and (f) learning how to interact like reasonable human beings. That's the involved parents; the loser parents just ignore the kids until they scream.
Walking down the grocery store aisle with one kid in the seat and one kid walking means that *if* you want to actually choose a product and place it in the cart, you will have to stop holding the two-year-old's hand and focus on the products.
Your two-year-old, being smart like her daddy, might just decide that now is the optimal moment to go for something interesting, like flashing cereal boxes. Now what, Dr. Spock? I suppose you're going to "instill discipline" right there and she'll just straighten right up for you.
News flash: unless you want to make every infraction a capital [1] offense, your kid will buck your will on a regular basis. The smart parent will decide which battles are worth fighting and which ones are worth reasoning through ... and reasoning through with them takes time.
In short, getting a kid to the point where he or she has self-discipline requires ... um ... time and patience [2]. You have to have self-discipline yourself to pull it off, which means that you can't expect to press the magical "discipline" button and have them behave. Have fun raising your own kids.
[1] Nothing short of the death penalty will guarantee compliance. My daughter responds pretty well to time-outs, but I spent part of my childhood proving that my dad couldn't spank me hard enough to make me obey him.
[2] As in, I haven't had time for any hobby coding projects since my first daughter was born.
Parent
Epilepsy? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Epilepsy? (Score:4, Funny)
In this age of data mining, persons afflicted with a seizure at the supermarket will quickly receive a coupon for a free shake from Baskin Robbins.
Parent
Re:Epilepsy? (Score:3, Insightful)
You misspelled "everyone."
Seriously. Pop-up ads on cereal boxes? I can't fucking wait.
The epileptics have it easy; once they go into a seizure they will be able to stop paying attention to the damn ads.
Re:Epilepsy? (Score:4, Interesting)
There are potential benefits here, though. For one thing, if you can add some buttons to make the display interactive, you can fit a lot more information onto the label.
Parent
How utterly depressing (Score:5, Insightful)
> expect them to just ask for the product, but to say, "I want it", said Axel
> Gerlt, an engineer at Siemens tasked with helping packaging companies implement
> the technology.'
Western culture appears to have lost its vision.
New technology being thought of in terms of how much you can make a child coerce its parent into buying cereal?
We're amusing ourselves to death.
It's much worse than that... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't tell you how many boxes of Frosted Flakes I ate for the primary goal of getting the Disney Afternoon figurine inside. There were also numerous times I thought I wanted something, but didn't actually know what it was.
Parent
Re:It's much worse than that... (Score:5, Interesting)
Had to ask a woman (mid 20's, high school drop out, and quite frankly couldn't even approach pretty without plastic surgery) if, after looking at an ad, she thought some shampoo that cost more than she made in an hour would make her "beautiful". Was totally shocked when she said yes, and decided I couldn't do a job where the point was to find people's misconceptions and exploit them.
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:4, Insightful)
Its illegal in my jurisdiction to have advertising (magazines, etc.) directed to children under 13.
This is over and above any broadcast requirements.
This could be a good thing if it gets parents more used to saying "Mo!" to their kids. After all, a pissed-off parent is already hostile to your product.
And I REALLY don't want to see the ads for Preparation H!
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:5, Funny)
Is that anything like saying "Ni!" to old women?
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes it takes *seriious* time and effort to do this but it is well worth it.
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:3, Insightful)
There's nothing I hate more than sanctimonious prick parents saying things like "well, you have no children so shut your mouth and keep your opinions to yourself!" or even more drug addicts who say shit like "You've never been addicted to meth, so you don't know - shut your mouth!".
Look, I've never raised a kid (I've taken care of a number including my own siblings for great lengths of time over months or years, though) and it doesn't take a fucking rocket scie
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:3, Interesting)
It only took two times of dropping to one knee in the middle of the grocery aisle, upending my son onto the other knee and a couple of quick whacks on his bottom to curtail whiny outbursts over whatever pretty shiny box with on it that he wanted. Not even hard whacks, it was the embarrassment and shame of having that done in front of strangers that did it. He's 4, and now is able to have a somewhat reasonable conversation about 'why' he can't have something. He might not like it, but h
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:5, Insightful)
Haven't a great many of the popular advances in the 19th and 20th century been driven by marketing, and the desire to draw attention for purposes of profit? The earliest visions of the phograph's uses were more oriented towards automated marketing than towards the memoranda and music they were actually used for. Color printing was exclusively for the purpose of making product packaging more appealing, and television only became possible as a mass-market item when it was married to marketing (to this day, commercials are the life blood of the networks).
Early radio broadcasts were practically commerials with a thin veil of entertainment laid over them. It took a little while for radio commercials to seperate from the actual content (when they started announcing the products during frequent breaks, rather than the programs constantly hawking a product within a poorly contrived story).
Holograms were invented simply to see it done, but the bulk of the funding came from companies who sought to apply them as the new wonder-label (which turned out to remain prohibitively expensive for some time, and just never that appealing).
Western technology has been driven by three primary needs:
* direct threats - be it war, disease, famine, etc. Death avoidance.
* misguided ambition - attempting to create something unrealistic, and ending up with something unexpected (and often unnoticed for some time)
* commerce - the inherent desire to make people give you money
Altruism is a noble thing, but it's greed that makes the world actually turn.
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, it's conservation of angular momentum.
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:5, Interesting)
Many cultures have risen to heights, both technological and philosophical, some of which we ourselves can't yet lay claim to. But from a historical standpoint, Eurocentric societies have rapidly moved from being quite literally the armpit of the known world, to the absolute domination of the globe (both the US and modern Russia count as eurocentrically derrived, in the long run). Only China and the middle east can claim to have had a global impact worth comparing.
Why? Simple. Europeans, back in the dark ages, identified, enumerated, and understood human nature. They knew their sins, which made them easier to pursue.
Greed - the need to make money, and to find more ways of getting as much of it as possible.
Sloth - just plain lazyness. We want our machines to do the work for us.
Gluttony - the drive to produce more plentiful food, that tastes better, regardless of nutritional content or actual need.
Wrath - newer and better ways to kill our fellow man
Envy - one nation sees what another has, and wants it for themselves, so they have to figure it out for themselves.
Pride - the need to produce something better than what's out there, to become famous for your creations, or for national pride.
Lust - I'm not sure how to articulate why this actually drives western progress, but I'm certain it's the keystone to all our social evolution.
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:4, Funny)
They already do this. They're kids.
Parent
Re:How utterly depressing (Score:3, Funny)
Harry Potter (Score:5, Insightful)
Seeing Nick Nolte's mug shot scowling out at me from a post office wall would be most disconcerting.
Then again, a moving poster of [insert favorite model here] would be most intriguing.
Grocery store? (Score:5, Interesting)
Boy, did the prognisticators really miss that one -- everyone kept talking about web-enabled microwaves. Little did they know the web-enabled cereal box would come first.
Yeah, right (Score:5, Informative)
Average prices for labels run about $3-$10 per thousand. The most expensive labels on metallic stock with lots of spot colors might be $30 per thousand.
That's still 3 cents per label for the most expensive ones. I doubt they could even sort out the power supply for these things that cheaply.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:3, Insightful)
By leaving most of the original printing intact the application of power becomes optional and could be done through an inductive system set on the store shelf. It probably wouldn't cost the store too much to begin with and would pay for itself after a short period. Not to mention, once the box is off the shelf, an
Re:Yeah, right (Score:3, Insightful)
And TV is more expensive than newprint. Guess which one is in deep sales trouble.
Re:Yeah, right (Score:5, Funny)
I feel your pain, brother. I work for a retail color laser printer. Printers are the worst bosses. This one pays me cash, the bank once said something about yellow dots in my money, and refused to accept a deposit.
Parent
Just what the environment needs (Score:5, Interesting)
On the bright side you'll always know if the product is fresh or not. Not fresh: no display. Of course then you won't know till you open it if you have Cheerios or Chex Mix.
Re:Just what the environment needs (Score:4, Informative)
i wonder how many more resources go into the production of e-paper over tree/hemp/etc. paper? anyone feel like doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations?
i feel very concerned when i notice so much focus on recycling and very little focus on consumption. if you are concerned about the earth/your home/"your back yard" ask yourself "how can i consume *less*?" because by consuming less we make the recycling problem smaller.
if this site http://www.weeeman.org/ [weeeman.org] is at all accurate, we geeks are using quite a bit of our share of the earth's resources with each new computer we purchase. according to this site, if we divide the earth's resources evenly amongst the current population, our individual "earthshare" is equal to ~two football fields. purchasing *one* computer uses ~4.25% of your earthshare. if you purchase six computers you consume 25% of your earthshare. and this doesn't include _any_ of the other things you are consuming (car, house, other electronic devices, etc.).
here's a couple more sites for more information about e-waste:
Basel Action Network - BAN
http://www.ban.org/ [ban.org]
Computer TakeBack Campaign
http://www.computertakeback.com/ [computertakeback.com]
btw, here's where you can get the most eco-friendly paper i know of: http://www.livingtreepaper.com/products.html [livingtreepaper.com]
peace
Parent
First things first (Score:5, Insightful)
Pretty please?
Oh, and make it uncrippled. Yes, I'm looking at you, Sony.
Re:First things first (Score:5, Informative)
Two e-ink based readers are supposed to be released soon: The Hanlin V8/V2 [jinke.com.cn] and a device from iRex [teleread.org]. The iRex reader is supposed to support Linux and be released in "early 2006" in Europe. The Hanlin V8 with a proprietary OS is supposed to be released "by the end of this year" in China for around $300, with the Linux-based V2 being released in May worldwide at about $320.
My money is on iRex, since they're backed by Philips and have a larger screen, but they might be more expensive than the Hanlin device. We'll see!
Parent
I can see it now... (Score:5, Funny)
Curse or Blessing? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me know when this matters. (Score:3, Interesting)
OLED too. Considering they keep showing off larger and larger displays, and the stuff is supposed to be dirt cheap to manufacture, I sure haven't seen any OLED displays bigger than a few inches across. If they are truely as cheap as they claim they are, lifespan isn't an issue as you could buy frequent replacements. Make a 17" OLED display with a modular capability to easily swap out the display itself. If it only cost $50 for the display itself, replacing it a few times during the lifetime of the product could still be cheaper than existing technology.
Medicine vials? (Score:5, Funny)
"You say the defendant, Local Pharmacy Inc., failed to warn your late husband about possible side effects of the drug?"
"Yes, sir."
"Show me the bottle. Let's see here. 'Not to be taken with alcohol. May cause dizziness, blindness, and death.' Clearly, if he had read the bottle, he would have known about the 'death' side-effect."
"Sure, but the label didn't say 'death' until just an hour ago. It said 'headaches'."
Grassroots Press Story ca. 2099 (Score:4, Funny)
For Immediate Release.
A recent conference of historians meeting in the bombed-out shell of a Hyatt hotel held a panel discussion on the cause of the downfall of human civilization as it was once known. The group uanimously traced the downfall of civilization to the following statement from the early part of this century:
"What were they friggin' thiking!" exclaimed noted historian Dulcinea Bumkis. "I mean seriously -- wasn't there anybody who looked at this and thought, 'That's the most idiotic idea I've ever heard.'" Another historian noted that a little-known insurrectionist going by the handle "Zordak" on a popular message board advocated just such a position, but he was quickly drowned out by a chorus of six-year-olds chanting for Cocoa Puffs.And that is how western civilization crumbled... (Score:5, Funny)
Pathetic parents? (Score:5, Insightful)
And I expect good parents to whack them upside the head until they say please.
And then whack them upside the head until they politely shut up after the parent says "No".
If Google has taught us anything... (Score:5, Insightful)
Adult? (Score:4, Insightful)
The adult industry was the original driving force behind the internet progressing, so who knows what will happen next. If theres money in it, you can guarantee that the big adult companies will come knocking on the door after a while.
ugh (Score:4, Insightful)
And imagine me walking to the nearest competitor that will not annoy me with real life pop-up adds.
Phillip K Dick got it right (Score:4, Insightful)
I dont think so... (Score:3, Insightful)
interesting development.... (Score:4, Interesting)
This means that as people check out, the cash register could swipe the RFID tag on the umbrella that was just sold and tell all the other umbrellas to raise their price on this e-paper by $1.00 because it might be raining.
E-paper. E-Ink. E-cheap. NOT (Score:3, Informative)
You can buy an E-Ink Prototyping Kit [eink.com] for $3000. This is a sheet of "E-ink" material, with the little balls that rotate, mounted on top of an 6 inch LCD panel, attached to a little computer. Runs Linux, even. This gets you a little black and white display. Since there's an LCD panel behind it, this can't be cheaper than an LCD panel. It is sunlight-readable, though.
There are some E-Ink point of purchase displays, but they're fixed signs where sections can be turned on and off, much like the special LCD displays that are used in control panels. These are still a few hundred dollars. Along the same line are the various "E-Ink clocks".
If you want a display that holds its image with power off and is sunlight readable, try Kent Displays [kentdisplays.com]. It's not "E-Ink", but it actually works.
Re:The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing (Score:5, Interesting)
You mean, in the same way it's possible to "hack" the FPU out of a CPU into another unit? THINK about it. If they print all the circuitry as a single device, you'd have to have fab-quality tools to directly interface with the ePaper. That is NOT my idea of a "hackable" piece of ePaper. (Especially since it would be cheaper and easier just to purchase a generic ePaper display.) And that's assuming that they don't further cut corners with tricks like not adding eInk to areas that don't change in the animation.
Parent
Re:The Wolf in Sheep's Clothing (Score:3, Insightful)
You have to account for that "everything else" BEFORE you can think about the extra cost of the digital display. Just because you have put ePaper on a cereal box doesn't mean you don't have to market it or ship it. The cost of that display is above and beyond everything else, and must directly eat in to the profit margin.
Re:It's coming (Score:5, Funny)
Why would we limit ourselves to inanimate surfaces? I envision a day when I go to a seafood restaurant and the oysters have a self-updating "I've been out of water DD HH.MI.SS" display attached to their shells; the lobsters have a "My claws currently weight WW ounces each, and I was harvested only HH hours ago" display on their carapaces; and the waiters have dazzling, dynamic pieces of flair attached to their uniforms that vibrantly inform me how much they love their job.
Parent