Behind The Curtain On T-Day

Ant writes "MSN Encarta has Columnist Martha Brockenbrough's article on the myths of this American holiday. From the article: 'A lot of what we know to be true about Thanksgiving really isn't. Determining exactly what did happen is difficult. For starters, we don't even know for certain if the Pilgrims served turkey, although it's a strong possibility.'" Additionally, maotx writes "Contrary to popular belief, turkey does not make you sleepy. While purified tryptophan is a mild sleep-inducing agent, there is not enough in turkey to have a sedative affect. And on top of that, turkey isn't even unusually high in tryptophan compared to other foods, such as beef or soybeans. So for those of us enjoying turkey today, bring on the turkey and have a Happy Thanksgiving!"

Re:The first broken myth...

[Doctor Crumb]

The first Canadian Thanksgiving was celebrated on April 15, 1872 in thanks for the recovery of the future King Edward VII from a serious illness. The next Thanksgiving didn't occur until 1879 when it was celebrated on a Thursday in November.

As for it being celebrated in October, it has more to do with Canada having a shorter growing season and that celebrating the harvest makes more sense near the end of harvest season in october. The holiday did bounce around a lot, but I don't think that Armistice day was the sole reason for the move to october.

http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/jfa-ha/action _e.cfm [pch.gc.ca]

another critical article

[Doviende]

"Some aspects of the conventional story are true enough. But it's also true that by 1637 Massachusetts Gov. John Winthrop was proclaiming a thanksgiving for the successful massacre of hundreds of Pequot Indian men, women and children, part of the long and bloody process of opening up additional land to the English invaders."

from Robert Jensen's Give Thanks No More [zmag.org]

here's another part of it i found interesting:

Any attempt to complicate this story guarantees hostility from mainstream culture. After raising the barbarism of America's much-revered founding fathers in a lecture, I was once accused of trying to "humble our proud nation" and "undermine young people's faith in our country."

Yes, of course -- that is exactly what I would hope to achieve. We should practice the virtue of humility and avoid the excessive pride that can, when combined with great power, lead to great abuses of power.

-doviende [anarchocyclist.ca]

You learn somthing everyday

[nagora]

As a Brit I had always assumed that the "thanks" were being "given" to the Indians for showing them how to grow corn and bringing all that nice food so they didn't starve. Just shows.

TWW

Re:What the hell IS thanksgiving?

[sunya]

And since we are playing selective quote, here's one further down from that same page :

An extract from chapter 17 of the book Where White Men Fear to Tread, by Russell Means:
"When we met with the Wampanoag people, they told us that in researching the history of Thanksgiving, they had confirmed the oral history passed down through their generations. Most Americans know that Massasoit, chief of the Wampanoag had welcomed the so-called Pilgrim Fathers - and the seldom mentioned Pilgrim Mothers - to the shores where his people had lived for millennia. The Wampanoag taught the European colonists how to live in our hemisphere by showing them what wild foods they could gather, how, where, and what crops to plant, and how to harvest, dry, and preserve them.
The Wampanoag now wanted to remind white America of what had happened after Massasoit's death. He was succeeded by his son, Metacomet, whom the colonist called "King" Philip. In 1617-1676, to show "gratitude" for what Massasoit's people had done for their fathers and grandfathers, the Pilgrims manufactured an incident as a pretext to justify disarming the Wampanoags. The whites went after the Wampanoag with guns, swords, cannons, and torches. Most, including Metacomet, were butchered. His wife and son were sold into slavery in the West Indies. His body was hideously drawn and quartered. For twenty-five years afterward Matacomet's skull was displayed on a pike above the whites' village. The real legacy of the Pilgrim Fathers is treachery.
Americans today believe that Thanksgiving celebrates a bountiful harvest, but that is not so. By 1970, the Wampanoag had turned up a copy of a Thanksgiving proclamation made by the governor to the colony. The text revealed the ugly truth: After a colonial militia had returned from murdering the men, women, and children of an Indian village, the governor proclaimed a holiday and feast to give thanks for the massacre. He also encouraged other colonies to do likewise - in other words, every autumn after the crops are in, go kill Indians and celebrate your murders with a feast.

In November 1970, their decendants returned to Plymouth to publisize the true story of Thanksgiving and, along with about two hundred other Indians from around the country, to observe a national day of Indian mourning."

Or you can read the entire page here [wikipedia.org].

Re:another critical article

[crabpeople]

"Any chance we can just enjoy the tradition as it is currently enjoyed by millions of people?"

absolutly right! who cares about the bloody history of how america was founded? its not like it has any baring on americas conduct in the world today or anything.

"those who forget history...."

Re:Tell me...

[Seumas]

"Native" people? You mean the original asians that crossed over into the country a long time before there were actual "Indians"?

Guess what. It's all old shit that I don't care about. And guess what? I'm not a hypocrit, because I'm not sitting around gorging on turkey and shit all day praying to baby jesus for the wonderful new car he gave me or... whatever.

I'm in the office, getting work done while others slack off. My Thanksgiving dinner will be a coke and a microwavable "hamburger" from the downstairs vending machine.

Re:And She Doesn't Even Touch the Biggest One

[whitehatlurker]

Does the Virginia party predate the one by Frobisher's expedition in 1578?

Re:You learn somthing everyday

[jd]

Given that much of the food had been brought to the Pilgrims, and what food the Piulgrims had had been grown only with Native American knowledge, you're essentially correct. I'd assumed that it had been a corruption of the English "Harvest Festival" and that the fetish with corn was related somehow to the ancient British tradition of making "corn dolls" out of the last corner of uncut crop.

(I don't know how old the tradition was, but the idea was you chased the spirit of the crop into a corner of the field, by harvesting the rest, then trapped it in a figurine made from the stalks of what was left. The following year, you planted the figurine, so releasing the crop spirits back into the field.)

Since Thanksgiving involves exactly the same basic elements, it seemed likely to me that the Pilgrims had borrowed from what they would already have known and merely shaped it to serve their purpose. I still believe there must have been some elements of that, but maybe nowhere near as much as I'd thought.

Re:another critical article

[Doviende]

perhaps you should read the article i posted [zmag.org] ;)

here's another quote from it, which references your response:

But when one brings into historical discussions any facts and interpretations that contest the celebratory story and make people uncomfortable -- such as the genocide of indigenous people as the foundational act in the creation of the United States -- suddenly the value of history drops precipitously and one is asked, "Why do you insist on dwelling on the past?"

and i particularly like this one:

Obscuring bitter truths about historical crimes helps perpetuate the fantasy of American benevolence, which makes it easier to sell contemporary imperial adventures -- such as the invasion and occupation of Iraq -- as another benevolent action.

but sure, there are lots of times when we should celebrate friendship and family...let's just not make it into a fantastical fairy tale about a 'glorious' past.

-doviende [anarchocyclist.ca]

Re:Think of the animals

[DeBeuk]

I'm not a troll, just a vegetarian.

Same thing, really.

Re:The Pilgrims should have served steak

[Planesdragon]

The situation is ofcourse quite different when it comes to micro-breweries et al, but then again, Joe Sixpack can't even pronounce microbrewery, not to mention visiting one and trying to have a beer rather than whatever-it-is-they-put-on-bottles-and-call-beer he normally drink and call beer.

"microbreweries" are, by and large, no better than mass-produced beer. If you don't care for the thin beer that Budweiser et al produce (and many don't), there are darker beers produced by slightly smaller breweries, including Sam Adams but also Saranac, JW Dundee's brews from Genesee, Yengling, and more than a few others. All avaliable in the grocery stores in my area, along with a modest selection of imports and others I didn't mention.

Joe Sixpack, a mythological figure who's about as real as the "silent majority" voter, has a wide selection of domestic and foreign beer right where he buys eggs and milk. America has some very, very good beer--and it's a sign of ignorance to think that even half of the brands are the same as the as-cheap-as-can-be beer we were so famous for.