No More Lunar Land for Sale 379
dptalia writes "According to China Daily, Beijing authorities have shut down sales of lunar property. Apparently there's a "Lunar embassy" in China and they've sold 34 people deeds to land on the moon. Not too surprisingly, the government has declared this illegal. The Bejing office claims to be a satellite of the U.S. Lunar Embassy, run by Dennis Hope. Hope claims that while it is illegal for countries to stake a claim on the moon, it is legal for individuals and corporations to."
oldest dupe ever? (Score:4, Interesting)
Robert Heinlein, 1950 (Street & Smith 1939)
Gift gag, genuine or gullible? (Score:2, Interesting)
First, I would think these deeds are presented more as a gift gag to someone than an honest investment opportunity. The star registry is lame to us geeks, but laypeople love it.
Secondly, with government so charged to "protect" consumers from scams, you'd think scams would go away. They won't. The only way that scams will be unprofitable is when government stops "protecting" citizens and lets people learn to be aware of what they're buying.
Lastly, even if this is a scam, the potential is there for the buyer to actually own the land. I once bought a tiny parcel of land from a company with a clear title. Years later, the title came into question, yet the new other owner couldn't find any previous owner anywhere. The company I bought from went bankrupt years before, and the courts awarded me the land with maybe $500 in legal fees.
Proof of purchase helps when no title exists to the land before it. In anarchocapitalist-speak, though, you don't own land until you've mixed your labor with it and no one before you has. Seeing as the moon won't be productive for another 50+ years, that'll be hard to do, but I'm thinking we need to find options for how we'll divvy it up for future generations.
how much lunar real estate is there? (Score:3, Interesting)
over 2 million people from 180 different countries have purchased over 400 million acres of celestial real estate-- www.lunarrealty.com.au
- What is the surface area of the moon, in acres?
- What GIS / LIS / DBMS are they using to track all this land?
Extend homesteading laws into space already (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Gift gag, genuine or gullible? (Score:5, Interesting)
My aunt doesn't fall for these things because she's protected. She falls for it because she's gullible and has always lived in a town filled with people she can trust absolutely. She's not taking risks because she thinks she has nothing to lose, so the government ceasing its protection is not going to help her. And her situation is exactly like everyone else's. But at least as long as it continues what protection it offers, a few stupid people will get their money back from evil bastards. I hate stupid people, but I hate evil bastards more.
If you want people to learn to distrust, teach them that (and good freaking luck. Those people don't learn things), don't blame the government for trying to help the ones that get screwed.
real issues here (Score:4, Interesting)
Space property rights, extended ownership and salvage rules are going to be hot areas of law over the next 50+ years. We've seen some action with new spectrum allocation, but nothing to grant land-claims, yet. There was a guy trying to charge rent for NEAR landing on asteroid Eros, but he got laughed out of court. Again with the giggle-factor.
Real challenges to establish property claims in the near future: SpaceDev has said they will emplace transponders and legally claim any asteroids they explore. Someone will figure out how to recycle rocket stages in orbit (salvage). A company flying a private lander to the moon or Mars will claim the uranium/nitrates/ice/whatever that they find at their landing site. Two probes orbitting Ceres will dismantle each other while fighting over the iceball. Those are legitimate future cases for space property issues to be resolved. Lunar acreage in 2005 is not such an issue.
Josh
A loophole in the loophole (Score:3, Interesting)
That's because a corporation or person can only own land in the context of government ownership -- that's why The Dutchy of Freeland exists (whatever legal name they give it) -- If they existed as a corporation sans-government, then England would have had the recognized right (under the doctrine of terra-nullis) to override the claim to the platform and re-assert sovereignty.
This would also apply to the Lunar Embasy and it's claims. On the other hand, if the Lunar Embasy claims to to the embasy for a government that 'owns' the moon, then it falls (and fails) under the treaty.
This is all fine... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Gift gag, genuine or gullible? (Score:3, Interesting)
Kinda like the DNS really. Hope is Verisign and he's selling you something that he doesn't own and you can call it your own but you don't really own it, particularly not after some big corporation comes around to claim your piece.
Re:Whitelist law vs Blacklist law. (Score:3, Interesting)
Staking a Claim/Claimjumping (Score:4, Interesting)
It's the source of many lawsuits, and oftentimes claimjumping.
"Staking Your Claim to Alaska's Mineral Wealth" [alaska-freegold.com]
Re:Legal according to... (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually, here's another angle to approach it from: claiming something as property requires that you occupy it, or at least control it in some respect. Obviously that's not possible, unless Neil Armstrong left a Century 21 sign in the Sea of Tranquility or something. Which means that any such property claims can reasonably be argued to have been abandoned, if not unenforceable in the first place.
Regardless, any moron who tries to hold up a government that wants to build a research lab or a helium-3 refinery on "their" lunar property will be the cause of a great many guffaws in the halls of power shortly thereafter.
Re:Gift gag, genuine or gullible? (Score:3, Interesting)
Verisign sells domain name registration services under contract to organizations that own those names (though some of that is in question now). You can't just open up a registry and start charging people to register their vehicles without any connection with the government, can you? Or for that matter provide a "registry" service for land here on Earth that makes the claim that you actually own that land?
The law on the moon... (Score:3, Interesting)
Biggest Landgrab in History (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course none of the Outer Space Treaty actually matters since the truth is that land, as always, will belong to he (or she) who can claim it and defend it afterwards! We don't need no stinking treaty.
Re:This is all fine... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What? (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously though, it's in a way like the American old west. You can claim all you want. But it will be the guy with the bigger (legal in this case?) guns that has his cake and eats it.