20 Million Year Old Spider Found 413
evil agent writes "BBC News is reporting that Paleontologist Dr. David Penny has found a spider, and two droplets of blood, perfectly perserved in amber. He was able to extract the blood and determine its age: 20 million years old. Since it is thought to be the first time that spider blood has been found perserved in amber, it is hoped that DNA could be extracted."
Don't Worry, Be Happy! (Not bloody likely) (Score:2, Insightful)
Any such bacteria/virus certainly wouldn't know how to handle us either. The ones that most affect us are those which have evolved to take advantage of our weaknesses. I'd say the risk is very low.
"Mind you, there is a rumor that AIDS was a rogue virus that escaped from some American lab."
There's also a rumor that man didn't land on the moon. My guess is that you believe that one too? With the distribution of aids cases and the fact that it's actually quite difficult to transmit, that's a pretty ridiculous rumor.
Re:Worried soul here! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not. But to reassure you, he will be doing all his work in a sterile environment, to avoid contaminating the specimen. Happily, the precautions work both ways.
Mind you, there is a rumor that AIDS was a rogue virus that escaped from some American lab.
There are also rumors that the moon is made of green cheese, and that the rapture will be next Thursday. Do you plan on repeating them too?
Re:blah! (Score:5, Insightful)
While we both know you're kidding, I have to wonder about the authenticity of carbon dating proceedures in general. I'm sure lots of scientists believe in them wholeheartedly, but I'm of a more humble seed. If they say this is a 20mil yr old spider, then I would agree under the stipulation that it's 20mil yrs in relation to everything else we've carbon dated.
Re:Worried soul here! (Score:4, Insightful)
"How does Ford know that it's new Hybrid cars won't have a nuclear meltdown?"
"I heard that cancer is cause by di-hydrogen monoxide."
Why send rockets into space? Leave the vacuum alone!
Re:is it just me (Score:2, Insightful)
Or does this sound like the intro narrative to a horror sci-fi flick...
A really cheesy Sci-Fi Channel Original sci-fi/horror flick at that. Give 'em about six months and I'm sure they'll already be a week into filming Frankenspider III - After the Armageddon. Has anyone seen the crap they've been funding these last few years? Absolutely atrocious -- riddled with poor acting, casting, writing, and CGI just for the sake of having it in there (it sometimes seems).
Re:blah! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:blah! (Score:4, Insightful)
Carbon dating, and similar methods, tend to often be most useful for mummies and humans or recent dead animals. Methods like those can't be used on dinosaur bones because most of the time the bone has been replaced with a different material (one example would be in southern south america, some major finds have been found but the bones were hard to move because they were nearly pure iron and bigger than a man.) You should read up on the science, its a very mature and well understood thing. The media does shitty research and doesn't check any facts that various religious groups tell them. Learn for yourself, you can probably take a class in it at your local college.
The intelligent design folk tend to be ignorant and ignoring facts. They can't accept the truth because they want more to their life, they want to believe that God designed people after himself (which in my eyes is a pretty conceited view, and also an insult to God considering how crappy and fragile we are designed, not to mention the numerous unused organs... I guess God just wanted to weigh us down.) I am a religious man, but some people associate evolution with meaning there is no heaven (not necessarily a true relation) and can't go through life not thinking that there is some higher meaning for them living. Its really all a case about people not being as important as they want to be. Its always been that way (hell, for centuries we claimed we were the center of the friggin Universe) and some people just need to wake up and accept the truth.
Regards,
Steve
I for one... (Score:0, Insightful)
Just out of raw curiousity... (Score:5, Insightful)
Palaeontologist Dr David Penney, of the University of Manchester, found the 4cm long by 2cm wide fossil during a visit to a museum in the Dominican Republic.
Since the discovery two years ago, he has used droplets of blood in the amber to reveal the age of the specimen.
Um, if he "found" it in a museum, doesn't that mean someone ELSE discovered it?
Just curious.
Re:faulty dates (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, blood is made out of atoms. If the atoms are embedded in a durable impenetrable container, they're not going anywhere as long as the container remains intact. The molecules that made up the blood may degrade, but the atoms all remain in place.
Arguments like this don't matter anyway. If you believe that an invisible man is fscking with our minds by creating a young universe that he filled with all types of evidence that makes it look old (including fossils, geological features, astronomical phenomena, cosmic redshifting and background radiation, minerals on earth and other planets, and myriad other observations, many down to the subatomic level) then all bets are off. You don't need to argue that carbon dating is flawed: in that scenario all carbon samples were rigged when they were created, so worrying about the scientific validity of any dating technique is futile.
Re:The Lord doesn't lie (Score:5, Insightful)
Science is based on 3 fundamental assumptions: That the universe exists (is not a figment of my imagination), that it interacts with us in predictable ways (E=MC^2, PV=nRT, etc), and that the way it interacts with us does not change (E=MC^2 & PV=nRT today, they did yesterday, and they always will). If you believe that God exists and interacts with the universe, then you have to reject science because that invalidates the 3rd assumption as God could change the way the universe works (Hmm... I think I'll make E equal MC^1.5 for reasons that puny mortals cannot comprehend)
If you want to believe that God popped the universe into existance 6000 years ago, that's cool with me. Just don't try to pretend it's scientific, because it isn't. And don't try to sneak it into science classrooms, because it isn't science.
Re:is it just me (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I'm sorry, but the bible says... (Score:2, Insightful)
Let me repeat that. The Bible makes no statements as to the age of the Earth.
Just because some count the number of generations in the Bible to 'prove' the age doesn't mean they are correct.
Re:The Lord doesn't lie (Score:3, Insightful)
So the September 11th hijackers really are in heaven now, enjoying their 72 virgins and whatnot?
Re:blah! (Score:5, Insightful)
it's a tiny minority outside the US (1% I'd guess.. seems to be near 100% of christians in the US.. didn't one state mandate teaching it as science? Scary stuff...).
Where do you get this stuff? A tiny minority outside the US? Do you happen to know fundamental (or even mainstream semi-educated) Islamic views on evolution? What about tribal Africa religious views? What about South American religious? What about fundamental Christians in Africa? I guarantee you that many, many people across the world have never heard of evolution, would think it's nonsense, and/or disbelieve it today. But that is neither here nor there.
Seems to be near 100% of Christians in the US? Well, something like 80-90% of Americans would identify themselves as Christians. Even non-observant ones. Not like in Europe. I don't go to church, but I consider myself a Christian. It's a cultural thing. I think many Europeans don't understand this. Anyways, long story short, there's NO WAY anywhere remotely near 100% of Christians believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago. I have no idea how many people actually believe that, but I can say I went through public schools in North Carolina (ie, Bible Belt!) and never met a fellow student who has believed that. Didn't one state mandate it? definitely not. Arguments have been made over whether religious views (ie, 6000 years, intelligent design, etc) are even ALLOWED to be taught in schools, not mandated.
I know as an American, I find almost every BBC article that touches on faith in the US as blatantly wrong. Hah, it's kind of like modern-orientalism. We can't really get past our biases and our own preconceptions and our own beliefs. It's easy to see the US as a seething hotbed of fundamentalism. Compared to Europe, maybe so. Compared to many parts of the world, definitely not.
And getting either further off topic, the argument can be made that socialism and environmentalism are the new religions of Europe, with fundamentalisms and lunacies all their own.
Re:blah! (Score:5, Insightful)
There is nothing wrong with parodying them and having a laugh about how silly they are .
Religion is something you choose and should be free to choose. It should also be something we are free to mock .
He sincerely believes that the spaghetti monster is a good parody , he sincerely believes that their religious ideas are a load of bunkum . Is there any difference ? Should he be disallowed from expressing those beliefs in this manner , especially with a crowed in which many share those beliefs .
Even though we all know its partially twaddle
Re:Another BS dating scheme (Score:3, Insightful)
All we know is - its old. Everytime somebody finds something that goes against the pillars of billions of years, its treated as an abnormality. Fact is - our great scientists that guzzle hundreds of millions of dollars for research based on assumptions don't know jack and are 100x worse than the Bush administration for cronyism. If only a tenth of the money spent on this junk would be spent on cures for cancer, alzhiemers, and other diseases - we'd probably be far more along and far more knowledgeable about ourselves.
Re:blah! (Score:2, Insightful)
Some European countries would qualify as more religious than the United States, in my experience, take Roman Catholic Italy for instance. While other countries like the Netherlands are counted amongst the most secular nations on the planet.
As "an American", I'd suggest not attributing opions or cultural attributes to "a European", unless you're very sure it actually hold across national borders. It's similar to calling Canadians and Mexicans Americans. I know from experience that isn't taken too well either.
Just thought I'd let you know.
And about Europeans not understanding that someone would call himself a Christian even if he stays out of church: in most European countries, churchgoing has seen a steady decline, while the same amount of people as about 20 years still calls themselves Christian. So, I think that most Europeans can identify perfectly well with that standpoint.
Re:blah! (Score:4, Insightful)
Aw, first you make an exelent speech about how Americans view religion in comparison to the beliefs shown by Europe's media. And then you end with a sentence to make it plain that you've been completely indoctrinated by your own government & media. At most it can be said that the average European is slightly more worried about the current state of affairs (unfortunately).
Re:blah! (Score:4, Insightful)
It sure beats an omnipotent, omnisentient judge with a poorly communicated sense of morals and a tendency to attribute unpleasantness to other entities of his design.
I can respect people's love of tradition, I can respect what the church has done in the past to assemble communities, but ultimately, I think a bunch of guys made up this whole God thing to use people's existentialist angst to steal their land and money.
Nobody's killed anyone in the name of the flying spagetti monster. It will no doubt happen one day, but until then, it is a far less corrupt vision of the universe.