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Space The Almighty Buck Science

Next NASA Centennial Challenge Competition 109

Posted by Zonk from the ready-set-space dept.
Andrew-Unit writes "NASA today announced the next competition in the Centennial Challenge series. A prize of $250,000 USD will be awarded to the team that can autonomously deliver the most lunar regolith to a collection device in 30 minutes. From the press release: 'This challenge continues NASA's efforts to broaden interest in innovative concepts ... We hope to see teams from a broad spectrum of technical areas take part in this competition,'"
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Next NASA Centennial Challenge Competition More

Next NASA Centennial Challenge Competition

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  • Man.. I Can See Where This Is Going... (Score:5, Funny)

    by ackthpt ( 218170 ) * on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:35PM (#13608729) Homepage Journal
    $250,000 USD will be awarded to the team that can autonomously deliver the most lunar regolith to a collection device in 30 minutes.
    I can see exactly where this is going*...
    • 300,000 USD First craft to achieve orbit.
    • 350,000 USD First craft to carry man in orbit.
    • 400,000 USD First craft to reach Moon.
    • 450,000 USD First craft to orbit Moon and return.
    • 500,000 USD First craft to take man to Moon orbit and return.
    • 550,000 USD First craft to land on Moon, take off and return.
    • 600,000 USD First craft to land Man on Moon, take off and return.
    • 650,000 USD First craft to land materiel on Moon, build structure.
    • 700,000 USD First craft to land Man and materiel on Moon, build structure, inhabit for one day and return.
    • 750,000 USD (optional) First craft to land Man on moon who spends 1 night in haunted Moon Mansion and return alive (Bonus: Gets eccentric uncle's inheritance)
    • 800,000 USD First to build town on Moon
    • 850,000 USD First to build domed city on Moon
    • 900,000 USD First to build Monorail (Monorail, a monorail!) on Moon

    NASA, if very, very cagey can do what they want on a pittance, letting people knock each other over trying to do for piddly prizes. Of course, Richard Branson will probably end up owning the Moon anyway...

    *Prizes not necessarily in order. Actual prize amount may vary. NASA employees and their family members not eligible (especially if an abnormal amount of materiel is missing from NASA) Offer subject to withdrawal at whim of sponsor or Congress.

    • 900,000 USD First to build Monorail (Monorail, a monorail!) on Moon
      You mean First to build a Moonrail.

      • 1,000,000 First to play chicken with Moonrail.
      • 10,000,000 in compensation for First killed by Moonrail while playing chicken.


      --LWM

    • And the winner goes to: (Score:5, Funny)

      by temojen ( 678985 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:47PM (#13608849) Journal
      Catterpillar. Oh wait... there's probably weight restrictions.

    • Re:Man.. I Can See Where This Is Going... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Soft ( 266615 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:50PM (#13608875)
      NASA, if very, very cagey can do what they want on a pittance, letting people knock each other over trying to do for piddly prizes.

      Actually, with adequate funding, this could be a nice incentive. As Henry Spencer said [google.com]:

      As I've noted before, if the government wants to put Americans back on the Moon and is willing to spend (say) ten billion to make it happen, much the most effective way is to simply announce that the next hundred Americans to walk on the Moon will each be given $100M. It will be the biggest stampede you've ever seen, and nobody will have to "oversee" anybody.
      More mundanely, consider having NASA announce that starting in 2010, each year it will buy 20 round-trip tickets to the Moon from the lowest bidder, bids not to exceed $50M/ticket. If concerned about safety, stipulate that each year, one of those tickets will be used to fly a randomly-selected senior executive of the spaceline, refusal being grounds for cancellation of the contract.

    • Re:Man.. I Can See Where This Is Going... (Score:4, Informative)

      by techno-vampire ( 666512 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:50PM (#13608881) Homepage
      First craft to land Man on moon who spends 1 night in haunted Moon Mansion and return alive

      You didn't specify, but I presume you meant a Lunar Night. Spending roughly two weeks there is far more worth a prize than a mere eight to twelve hours.

    • I misread that the first time I read it... although I think it sounded better.

      $850,000 USB First to build doomed city on Moon.

      Also don't forget

      $1,500,000 USD First to build graffiti-removing robots to clean up after street punks.

    • Don't forget 1,000,000 USD if you figure out how to put someone with some brains in Congress.
    • ...deliver the most lunar regolith to a collection device in 30 minutes...

      ...Domino's Pizza can do it, and it'll still be warm...

      • Domino's Pizza can do it, and it'll still be warm

        Reminds me of what a friend of mine once told me. Back during the 70s and early 80s, she worked as a Russian translator for the US army.

        The US and USSR entered several nuclear disarmament pacts, in which both sides would agree to destroy a given number of missiles. She described these as kind of a PR scam, because both sides really wanted to get rid of their old missiles anyways. Teams were exchanged to verify disarmament of the said number of missiles, wh
    • Are we to assume that you were joking? The entire sum of your prizes is 7.8 million dollars. It's questionable whether you could even pull together an X-prize style "low delta-V minimal payload rocketplane" for the sum of all of your prizes together. *Real* launch costs on cheap Russian rockets would get you a single launch of 1,000kg to LEO for all of that prize money combined.

      You're orders of magnitude off.

      Prizes are nice for some things, but in general, they don't really apply to space contracting. B
      • Are we to assume that you were joking? The entire sum of your prizes is 7.8 million dollars. It's questionable whether you could even pull together an X-prize style

        Ah, a literalist. May I direct your attention to the conditions, located in the footnote.

        Granted and granted and granted, etc. But the idea seems rather sound even if the prizes were higher. As Open Source development teaches us, many eyes make for better code, same applies for engineering. NASA has been without peer and yet the Russians wi

        • The footnote doesn't change that these prizes are orders of magnitude too small to even be humored.

          But the idea seems rather sound even if the prizes were higher. As Open Source development teaches us, many eyes make for better code, same applies for engineering.

          There aren't "many eyes" who have tens of billions of dollars, and the ones who do have that money didn't get it by flitting it away on prizes. Please either reread my post on the subject, or respond to my particular critiques.

          the Russians with th
          • or respond to my particular critiques.

            OK. How's this:

            You're overanalyzing.
            Not merely preaching to the choir, but shouting at it.

            the long-time use of the same general model

            Exactly what I meant, but please do over extrapolate.

            It's nice to think that anything can be accomplished if someone wants it enough and works hard enough

            Yet we've made astounding advances using better understanding of physics, better materials and different approaches to challenges. Don't assume just because it all looks like

            • Don't assume just because it all looks like a wall

              Don't just assume that because you want something to be true, it is.

              A smart person puts their money on physics winning over wishes. There's no magical way to get to LEO. If you think you have one, state it. If not, don't come here and pretend that someone else does.

    • # 600,000 USD First craft to land Man on Moon, take off and return.

      With or without the man? Because it's easier without, less weight to bring back, especially if he's American...Sorry.
    • Am I right in thinking that this contest doesn't actually take place on the moon? For a quarter million devalued American pesos they want an autonomous earthmover, right? The sort of thing that might be good for sending to the moon on a much larger budget.
    • 850,000 USD First to build domed city on Moon

      How much for building a doomed city?

  • Surefire plan (Score:3, Funny)

    by Red Flayer ( 890720 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:36PM (#13608739) Journal
    The Pacific Ocean is my container. A lasso is my collection device. If I get it all, I win $250,000, right?

    • Re:Surefire plan (Score:2, Informative)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 ) *
      The Pacific Ocean is my container. A lasso is my collection device. If I get it all, I win $250,000, right?

      How about just buy a missile from DPRK, blow up the Moon and catch pieces with a butterfly net?

      oh, you wanted to do something else with the Moon?

      • Re:Surefire plan (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Red Flayer ( 890720 )
        "How about just buy a missile from DPRK, blow up the Moon and catch pieces with a butterfly net? "

        No fair, you used gravity to move the samples. I used a lasso.
      • Why bother blowing it up when you can simply extort ONE HUNDRED TRILLION DOLLARS from the UN by threatening to send the moon on a collision course with the White House using your stash of WMD stolen from Iraq?

  • The new NASA (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    A prize of $250,000 USD will be awarded to the team that can autonomously do our job for us

  • Can't wait to get started (Score:3, Funny)

    by joeflies ( 529536 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:36PM (#13608747)
    Now where did I leave my Saturn V and lunar lander? Maybe I can get one on Ebay?
  • Why not just use a cheese grater [google.com]?
  • a small package, that when it hits, inflates some HUGE MOTHER tires,, 10 meter diameter, 1 -2 meters wide.. .. covered with super glue or some other adhesive-- roll it out, roll it back.
  • Can I just detonate a fusion bomb and send NASA guys out into the parking lot to catch the debris that rains down?
    • Using small explosive charges is not such a bad idea. You know, mining on earth hasn't quite been the same ever since Nobel discovered cheap and safe dynamite.

  • Blow up the moon! (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Do they subtract points if the collection device is The Earth?

  • Meritocracy over aristocracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Safe Sex Goddess ( 910415 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:42PM (#13608804) Homepage Journal
    The article does make a good point when it says that these competitions let everyone compete on a level playing field.

    We get to see a published set of standards, an open competition, and the winner isn't based on who has taken whom to dinner.

    Wow! Making awards based on what one has accomplished rather than who one knows. This could have a major impact on business integrity if it's widely adopted.

    • "The article does make a good point when it says that these competitions let everyone compete on a level playing field. "

      There are playing fields on the moon? I knew about the golf course where Shepard teed off, but what team sport do they play there?
  • 1. Create atmosphere on moon
    2. Drop vacuum cleaner by parachute
    3. Suck up regolith for 30 seconds
    4. Profit!

  • Wow, Imagine that. (Score:5, Funny)

    by GeneralEmergency ( 240687 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:42PM (#13608809) Journal


    Millions of years of evolution.

    Thousands of years of painstaking acquisition of knowledge.

    Decades of space exploration.

    The next big challenge:

    -- How to get dirt into a bucket. --

    "How do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?"

    • Re:Wow, Imagine that. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by paco3791 ( 786431 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @06:35PM (#13609249) Journal
      I don't think it can be overstated how important automation is to our future.

      If we can turn technologies like this into something that: collects, proccesses, and utilizes' raw matireials, and self replicates, the possibilites are limitless. If we can get automation sufficiently advanced we can send a small robotic factory to the moon or mars and have a habitate, fuel, air, water, and bio-mass ready for use when we get there. Terraforming and other "sci-fi" ideas become a little more plausable.

      The raw matirals are out there that will allow the human race to expand away from the "one planet, one disaster away from extinction" problem. And the solution isn't people in space it's automatons as an extention of our will.

      *checks above post* Whoa! Too much Red Mars today.
      • So let me get this straight... Your plan to win the contest is to make a robot out of dirt. Good luck with that.
      • The raw matirals are out there that will allow the human race to expand away from the "one planet, one disaster away from extinction" problem. And the solution isn't people in space it's automatons as an extention of our will.

        But if people don't actually leave Earth, then we're still in the "one planet, one disaster away from extinction problem". The solution is people in space. And if humans do leave Earth, then why not put them to work?

        Further, I think there's a dangerous "we need to do X first" syn

    • Secure that shit, Hudson!

  • John Henry (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lilmouse ( 310335 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:45PM (#13608830)
    Have they already ruled out a guy with a shovel? I bet John Henry would break down less often, as well as maneuvering around objects more quickly.

    I know, let's put a penal colony on the moon! That way, we'd have cheap labor there, and could remove troublesome elements from our society. At least until they start raining gravity bombs on our head...

    Seriously, though, a guy with a shovel is at least a viable option. Abrasive lunar dust is gonna suck for anything out there, and spacesuits may well be cheaper then gears for robots.

    --LWM

    • I know, let's put a penal colony on the moon! That way, we'd have cheap labor there, and could remove troublesome elements from our society. At least until they start raining gravity bombs on our head... Thats not bad. Put the prison in orbit and say, "Sure, you can escape. I won't stop you."
    • 1. Establish penal colony on moon
      2. Give each laborour a shovel
      3. Instruct chain gang to breath OUT when they go through the airlock
      4. Supply new gang every 2 minutes
      5. Profit...
    • I know, let's put a penal colony on the moon! That way, we'd have cheap labor there, and could remove troublesome elements from our society. At least until they start raining gravity bombs on our head...

      Hey, Mike? Where are you? Can we get on this thing? I'm thinking we'll call it 'Little David's Sling.'

    • How do I sign up to be an inmate in this penal colony you talk of? Do I have to kill someone for such a sentence? Oww.. hope not. How about a premeditated murder of a fly or mosquito? I might be willing to commit such a selfish act of specieism motivated atrocity, but there should be less harsh means to hitch a ride, to be among the cargo of the inmate ship delivery?

  • What about gravity? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dareth ( 47614 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @05:45PM (#13608835)
    Will the difference in gravity between Earth and the moon make a difference in the performance of these devices?

    Oh, and will any of them bounce over craters, and have massive 2 directional (front and above) firepower?
  • I like the idea of going back to the Moon, I like the idea of contests to get people interested - but this seems a bit absurd. The old Apollo program brought enough regolith back - when they started training astronauts in field geology is when they started getting the good stuff.

    How about a contest with a little bit more realistic mission profile?
    • What's not realistic? They have another $250k challenge to see who can extract the most oxygen from the regolith in 8 hours. If you wanted to establish a base, you need something to bring all that regolith to get oxygen from.
      • Er, well, that's what I get for not RingTFA. I was thinking why all the regolith, why only 30 minutes? It all makes sense now.
      • From an increasingly large distance, no less. Once you deplete the regolith in the immediate area, you'll have to go out and get stuff from further away.

        Oxygen on the moon is a non-renewable resource. You can harvest and conserv, but you can't really wait for it to grow back.
        • But the thing is, it's not like you're losing any oxygen from the system. When we go back to the moon it will be in a sealed environment, and the oxygen will probably be used to grow plants and sanitize things just as much as its used for breathing. You don't need to dig up more than you need to sustain yourself plus a little extra for emergency purposes.

          On the other hand, the moon is rich in certain minerals and it might be lucrative to keep going and extracting oxygen simply because it enables you to g
          • I suspect large-scale leaks are going to be fairly common, and small-scale leaks unavoidable. There's any number of ways to lose material from your environment, from micrometorites to equipment breakdowns necessitating the dumping of waste outside.

    • Re:How about a realistic mission? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      this seems a bit absurd. The old Apollo program brought enough regolith back

      Who said anything about bringing regolith back? As far as I can tell, this is about gathering lunar soil for mining the moon. To extract minerals / metals, or to make bricks. The goal will be to build things on the moon - not take more lunar soil back to Earth.

      It's easy to imagine a machine which gathers soil and dust - filters, compacts and heat-treats - then spits out some sort of brick which can be used to construct walls or help

  • NASA's plan (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    0 - Get billions of dollars from government.
    1 - Get citizens do their job for a few grands.
    2 - Fake spending those billions of dollars.
    3 - ??? (this step is optional)
    4 - ??? (this one too)
    5 - Profit !
  • So this is sorta like a high tech lunar version of Hungry Hungry Hippos? I think I have my entry, I mean device, in the garage still.
  • Maybe I should have RTA better, but how is this going to work?

    Are we supposed to send our own bot to the moon to pick up dirt? Or will Nasa take a bunch of selected bots to pick up dirt?

    Whats so hard about picking up dirt? What am I missing? Someone care to explain!!
  • As previously reported, there is a $250,000 prize for converting regolith into Oxygen [msn.com].

    I can see where this is going. Next competition will be $250,000 for converting regolith into water and then there will be $250,000 for converting it into food.

  • Teams required to pay $300 registration fee. (Score:3, Informative)

    by ChickenFan ( 887311 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @06:02PM (#13608997)
    From the rules (http://www.fsri.org/Grant%20Process%20Chart/DRAFT %20MoonROx%20Rules.pdf [fsri.org]):

    "b. Teams are required to pay a registration fee of $300."

    So it's going to cost you to enter your Hungry Hippos idea.

    • Weeds out the people who are just throwing something together.. the US Govt. should take their hint and do this with the DARPA project, though, with already resource strained teams it might not be as great an idea. Maybe only a hundred dollars or so.

      Besides, unlike gambling, this $300 could have a much larger payout, and if your idea's good enough it can probably be used here on Earth as well, and might be worth some money to escavation companies (if you aren't one of those companies anyways).

  • US FIRST (Score:3, Insightful)

    by orn ( 34773 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @06:03PM (#13609000)
    This sounds like one of the US FIRST [usfirst.org] competitions. Perhaps FIRST should pick up the project and end up giving a small pile of cash to the school that wins it...

  • My idea (Score:3, Funny)

    by SpaceAdmiral ( 869318 ) on Tuesday September 20, 2005 @06:34PM (#13609242) Homepage
    I'm just going to buy a Roomba and spray-paint my name on it.

  • Poor choice of rules. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The constraint in collecting moon rocks is not time, it's weight. This contest would be much more useful if the time limit were eliminated and replaced by a limit on the combined weight of the system and fuel. Better yet, determine the required amount of moon rock up front, and award the prize to the lightest system that succeeds in gathering that amount.
  • I didn't know NASA was 100 years old.
  • Seriously, this is pathetic. I'm sure people remember the last "competition", where there was the same monetary reward for generating 10 kilos of O2 from regolith in 8 hours. The lab I work in has the capability to do this, in fact at the time we had a contract with NASA to show electrochemical reduction could in fact solve this problem. The problem is that given the scale of our lab set-up, we would have had to run... wait for it.. 2000 amps through our system for eight hours. Were we to properly scale
    • It was 5 kilos of O2, 11 lbs, and you had the capability, to do it for a day maybe, but your device would have been chewed to pieces by corrosion in no time. There is a reason why they offered it to the public. $200,000 is not about the money, it's a gesture, it's about something that NASA - listen up, NASA! - is asking help with. They have no problem with controlling and talking to something flying by Pluto. Pluto!!! That's the big deal there, the bowing, the recognition that you'd like a helping hand, bec
  • What happens when they've given away enough prizes and gained enough research to throw together a moon mission, but it turns out that each of the bits don't fit together because the software was written in different languages or the square filter doesn't fit in the round hole?

    "Houston... we've had a problem..."
  • The final centennial prize will be awarded by NASA to NASA: One ginuiiine billion-dollar streak in the midnight sky.
  • Let me guess. NASA is gonna give this 250k award to the winning team, then have ownership of their plans, and award a $100 million dollar contract to one of the biggie aerospace guys to make the thing 10% more efficient and "flight ready." How is this going to save us money?
  • Carry the monolith back from the moon? I thought that movie was fiction. On reflection, I suppose that makes it a better cover-up.

    ...Oh, regolith? That would be different.

  • There is no mention of transport to or from the moon, so I would assume there is none.
    The article doesn't specifically say, but it seems to imply that this competition will be the excavation of some sort of simulated regolith here on earth.

    I'm sure there are going to be some specific rules to try to make this slightly more akin to a moon mission that for example the Caterpillar working in the vacant lot next door. Restrictions on interaction with the environment, for example (no intake of atmosphereic gass
  • Don't believe me, RTFA buckos:

    "The challenge will be conducted in a "head-to-head" competition format in late 2006 or early 2007 and will require teams to excavate and deliver as much regolith as possible in 30 minutes."

    Sure sounds like all the excavatuion bots will need to defend and to win, disable the evil Chinese, Japanese and Russian bots. This will be the REAL space race!
  • Those of you interested in space-based automation should take a look at the Advanced Automation for Space Missions [wikisource.org] report on Wikisource. Basically, it's a study which NASA sponsored back in 1980 to brainstorm and analyze different ways of using automation in space. Although it's fairly old, a lot of their analysis is still relevant today.

    Here's the chapters:

    1. Introduction
    2. Terrestrial Applications: An Intelligent Earth-Sensing Information System
    3. Space Exploration: The Interstellar Goal and Titan Demonst
  • There are two general purpose robot announcements, a smallest robot, this contest, and a life guard. Links to articles here [blogspot.com]. Kinda makes one think.
  • $250,000 USD will be awarded to the team that can autonomously deliver the most lunar regolith to a collection device

    If that's not simulated lunar regolith, I think they'd be quite willing to pay a lot more.

    • They did not say deliver it to Earth. Whatever your gadget, it should work well with simulated regolith delivering the stuff within a few hundred feet radius both here on Earth, and up there on the Moon.

      Whatever happened to those autonomos car-driving teams that made it across the nevada desert? They sure have the capacity to cook something up. This challenge is to get electrical/mechanical engineers excited too, besides the chemists thinking about oxygen extraction techniques.
  • The X Prize worked because it lead to something you could build a business on. You could theoretically make money hurling people into low earth orbit for 30 seconds. The NASA prize doesn't seem to lead to anything. Whose going to pay to move lunar regolith to a collection device?

    • NASA or any other space agency interested in "live off of the land" technologies.
    • Yeah, well what happened to that Chess Prize challenge, offered to anyone who can build a computer program that could beat a grandmaster? IBM came up with Deep Blue, that had chess moves implemented in hardware. It beat the world chess champion. Did they do it for the money? Yeah, sure, what a great investment it must have been! Wall Street was in ecstasy! IBM's computer beat Kasparov! Weee! And their stock instantly went through the roof because of the huge income from that prize! These things are not abo

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