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Space Science

Voyager 1 Crosses The Termination Shock 420

SubstormGuy writes "In a scientific session at the AGU meeting in New Orleans this morning, Dr. Ed Stone presented clear evidence that Voyager 1 crossed the termination shock last December. The scientists in the room applauded when the announcement was made."
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Voyager 1 Crosses The Termination Shock

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  • Fixed article link (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darkpurpleblob ( 180550 ) * on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @02:07AM (#12631485)

    The first link doesn't go anywhere useful. This link [agu.org] brings up the correct results for the session. You can also view the session details [agu.org].

  • by Dancin_Santa ( 265275 ) <DancinSanta@gmail.com> on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @02:17AM (#12631543) Journal
    Right. Which is why I titled this thread Update wiki with new information.

    But yes, thank you for paying attention and telling me what I've already said.
  • by gtkuhn ( 823989 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @02:22AM (#12631558)
    Why couldn't a one sentence definition of "termination shock" be included in the summary? Would it make the story seem boring, or was this a planned attempt to slashdot wiki? Did anyone not have to look it up? On another note, what the heck is the speed of sound in solar wind?
  • by Inspector Lopez ( 466767 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @02:27AM (#12631586) Journal
    By contrast, NASA is an entirely civilian effort.

    Thanks for playing, AC! but why not check some of the manifests for Shuttle flights; and whether the astronauts have security clearances; etc. The notion that NASA is "entirely civilian" is ... quaint.
  • by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @02:29AM (#12631595) Homepage Journal
    hehe, yes. All too often I see references to the speed of sound at sea level when the vehicle in question is most definitely not at sea level.
  • Re:cool (Score:5, Insightful)

    by deglr6328 ( 150198 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @02:34AM (#12631610)
    Cool indeed. I can't help but wonder what Carl Sagan would think of this if he were around to see it happen....Sadly we have only his past eloquence [danivers.com] to ponder and we are now left to our own devices in order to comprehend the magnitude of this event. We are now an interstellar species. The first ever on Earth and the only one we know of. There is no turning back now. Though perhaps it is time for Voyager to turn back, one last time to send us an image of ourselves from the incomprehensible beyond. Our planet will of course not be visible anymore, and our sun will probably appear as a mere unremarkable dot among a thousand others.
  • by globaljustin ( 574257 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @02:48AM (#12631665) Journal
    Hey, it was out out date info, but it's still better than an old hard bound 'World Book Encyclopedia'...

    plus, this post has been up for less than a day and someone updated it...pretty good i'd say
  • by NathanBFH ( 558218 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @03:06AM (#12631723)

    Science just doesn't work when politics gets involved... :(

    On the other hand, science like this would never be funded with out politics. There's only a limited amount of money out there to fund endevours like this, and someone has to decide how to divy that money up. So who gets the money? Well you have to create a policy to decide where appropriate funds.... and now you've entered the relm of politics. Whether it's decided by elected senators on the floor of Congress or by a tribunal of society's leading scientists: scarcity leads to a policy of allocation which leads to politics. Can't avoid it.

  • by alistair ( 31390 ) <alistair.hotldap@com> on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @05:34AM (#12632171)
    Fully agreed, it is nice to see someone articulate this so clearly on Slashdot. All countries contain a wide range of contradictory trends in their societies but the space program stands as a lasting achievment for all of mankind and one we have to thank the US for pouring so much of it's investment into.

    The nearest we have in Europe is the European Space Agency [esa.int]. Now celebrating thirty years this has run some major programs and developed some excellent lauchers. Although it has a European Branding, my impression is that almost half the funding and most of the political drive has come from France, with very little in the way of contribution from the UK. If you ever get the chance and find yourself in South West France, check out the excellent Cité de l'Espace [cite-espace.com] museum near Toulouse. This is easily Europe's finest space museum with a wide range of information on space exploration and the European Space Program, inclding two Skylabs to walk through and a full size Ariane 5 rocket which dominates the skyline as you approach.
  • by porkchop_d_clown ( 39923 ) <mwheinz@nOSpAm.me.com> on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @06:59AM (#12632389)
    welfare compared to how much we spend on NASA, not too many more.

    2006 budget:

    Nasa: 16.5 billion
    Education: 56 billion
    HHS: 68.9 billion
    Social Security: 540 billion
    Medicare: 340 billion
    Medicaid: 199 billion

    Yeah, killing NASA would make a big dent.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @07:35AM (#12632573)
    Imagine how many people could have been fed with this money.

    alot.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @07:57AM (#12632675)
    Sorry for being a coward but I spend some modpoints on this subject already.

    "Creating an object that can travel out of the Solar System is HUGE" What is so HUGE about it ? I'm pretty sure you can do the same easily from the shuttle or the ISS. Just walk outside and throw some object in the right direction. with some little math you should be able to send it in the right direction, then it's just a matter of time (years) before the object exists our solar system.
    What about doing some math on the speed you have to throw away your object before making this comment?

    The circulair speed of the ISS is:
    v_c = sqrt(GM/r)
    The escape velocity from ISS orbit is:
    v_esc = sqrt(2GM/r)
    so you are only 41% of your current speed short.

    The ISS speed is about 7.7 km/s. To get to earths escape velocity you have to throw something away with 3.2 km/s (=11520 km/h = 7200 Mph).

    But then you have still the sun. Speed of the earth around the sun is about 28.9 km/s, escape velocity from the sun in earth orbit is about 40.8 km/s.

    Conclusion: Yes, getting something out of the solar system is quite an accomplishment. Even a powerfull gun won't do it (a high barrel exit velocity = 900 m/s). Smart people use gravity from other planets to accomplish it because you need huge amounts of energy.

    Nyh
  • by ect5150 ( 700619 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @08:01AM (#12632692) Journal

    Actually, an article appeared on Slashdot a while back about this. Wiki is not peer-reviewed for accuracy. The article discussed an intentional inaccuracy posted to see how long it would be discovered. In short, it never was, and the author finally went in and changed it.

    While it may be very useful in many situations, I wouldn't cite Wiki as a source. Use it to track down other sources based on its information though.
  • by TheClam ( 209230 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @08:50AM (#12633018)
    That this could be modded up to +5 Funny so quickly sickens me.
  • by lobsterGun ( 415085 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @09:27AM (#12633387)

    America doesn't "have the balls" to do anything like this anymore either.


    Mars rovers?

    Cassini-Huygens?

    Hubble?

    Chandra?

  • by FreeUser ( 11483 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @10:05AM (#12633759)
    I'm so glad that taking care of our retired is thrown in with welfare. Thanks for sharing, fascist.

    Amen. The poster should be ashamed of themselves, and the moderates who modded you down as "flaimbait" for speaking the truth even more so.

    1) Social Security isn't "welfare." We pay into the system, we get benefits out of the system. Social Security recipients are not getting "something for nothing," so to lump them in with welfare recipients is just plain Ignorant(tm) and Stupid(tm).

    2) You want to discuss welfare, start by discussing the savings and loan bailout, the tax subsidies virtually every large corporation gets from state, local, and federal governments, and the immense amount of government pork in the defense budget which amounts to Yet Another Subsidy. The amount of tax dollars spent on corporate welfare, an appalling percentage of which goes directly to line the pockets of the very wealthy, dwarfs by an order of magnitude the amount of money being returned to those who've paid into the Social Security system, being paid to those who've paid into the Unemployment Benefits system, being returned to those who've paid into the Medicare and Medicaide system during their working lives, and yes, even those getting free handouts ('welfare') because they're too poor, too uneducated, lack resources, lack opportunity, or (in some cases, but not even close to all) are simply too lazy to work.

    That doesn't change the fact that funding the space agency should be one of our top priorities, not one of our last, but to blame it on "welfare" is numerical nonsense--and to blame it on the modest, half-assed social programs we call Social Security and Medicare simply unconscionable right wing and, yes, fascist dogma. The Right in America has become so toxic it boggles the mind.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @10:19AM (#12633910)
    "Creating an object that can travel out of the Solar System is HUGE" What is so HUGE about it ? I'm pretty sure you can do the same easily from the shuttle or the ISS. Just walk outside and throw some object in the right direction.

    LOL! You fail physics 101.

    It takes *a lot* of additional velocity to escape earth orbit. If you throw a rock, or even fire a high-powered rifle from the ISS, the bullet will still be in orbit around the Earth. Once you do actually escape earth orbit guess what, now you're in orbit around the sun. and then it take a hell of a lot of additional velocity to escape solar orbit.

    stfu about things you don't understand moron.
  • Re:details (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @10:27AM (#12633982)
    > it did read like NASA will not pull the plug, how could they possibly. is the heat from Bush really that bad? could not Bush's NASA advisors sway him that this is some incredible data discovery over wasting money to put people on Mars in 40+ years?

    The following paragraph applies equally as well to Bush as it would to Kerry. It's non-partisan.

    His advisors will say this: "Science data from a project so old that it won't even get a 30 second soundbite on CNN, versus at least two or three announcement-style photo-ops with full press coverage, followed by lots of cash for the primes and their subcontractors to do the studies on the Mars programme. Tough choice, huh?"

    Remember, politicians aren't motivated by the same concerns as scientists. They therefore get their advice from different sources.

  • by EccentricAnomaly ( 451326 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @10:28AM (#12633986) Homepage
    What's sad is that NASA is pulling the plug on Voyager, even though it only just now entered interstellar space and we know nothing about this region. For once slashdot humor is close to the reality...
  • Re:cool (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @11:16AM (#12634689) Homepage
    "We are now an interstellar species."

    Not really. Thats a bit like calling an ape who chucks a stone into the sea aquatic.
  • Re:Power source (Score:5, Insightful)

    by be-fan ( 61476 ) on Wednesday May 25, 2005 @05:23PM (#12638726)
    An accident at launch could have released highly toxic materal from the plutonium batteries.

    While this is true, my basic problem is that most people opposed to RTGs can't understand this statement in context. The environmental impact statement of this project is particularly useful. Its in this PDF [nasa.gov] on page 19. But let's analyze that statement anyway, piece by piece.

    1) An "accident" could have released material, but it was unlikely. The containers were tested under explosions, fires, shrapnel, reentry heat, and impact. The RTGs were tough enough that they could hit concrete at terminal velocity and release only a minscule amount of fuel (0.22 grams).

    2) Yes, Plutonium is "highly toxic". But most people complaining about the RTGs don't worry about "toxic". They worry about "nuclear explosion" or "fallout". Of course, none of those can result from the failure of an RTG. 10kg of toxic material (only a fraction of which would actually be released in a failure) is hardly your biggest worry. I'd be more worried about the thousands of pounds of very nasty fuel in solid rocket boosters.

    3) The fuel in the RTG's isn't plutonium, its plutonium dioxide. This is an important difference, because the latter is very stable, almost inert (it was believed to be completely inert until 1999), and is insoluable in water. It also has a very high melting temperature and an even higher vaporization temperature. The net result is that the mechanisms through which it can enter the environment in the event of an accident are very limited. Basically, it would have to be bulverized and become airborne. Pulverizing 10kg of a hard material encased in a strong, unrestrained container, with just a single explosion is non-trivial. The physics of the situation tend to make the container just fly away and land in the dirt.

    So basically, an accident was exceedingly unlikely, and even if it did happen, release was unlikely, and even if that happend, you had bigger things to worry about at that point.

    You can operate on a basis of reasonable risk management

    It's not "reasonable risk management". It's "not caving in to complete paranoia".

    assuming the general public is entirely ignorant of physics

    The general public *is* ignorant of physics.

    I'm sure there are plenty of people in the "general public" who have studied more physics and bio/chemistry than you have.)

    Well that's fine and good, and I don't doubt that biology and chemistry can tell you that plutonium will cause poisoning and cancer. However, biologists and chemists are not engineers or environmental scientists. They cannot tell you the probability of an RTG failing in an explosion, nor can they tell you the environmental mechanisms through which plutonium could spread even in the case of a failure. Nor can they tell you what sort of population impact such a spread would have anyway. Finally, they are not trained to make risk assessments of this nature. Engineers build bridges (and planes and cares and buildings), that thousands of people trust their lives too every day, without a second thought, using the exact same risk assessment mechanisms the NASA folks used. If you're going to question the NASA folks, the intellectually honest thing to do would be to grill the guy who designed your car about what risks he took with your life.

    I agree that people sometimes go way overboard with their resistance to anything nuclear, but that attitude was instilled in them, or their parents, pretty forcefully.

    Most parents are people, and most people are stupid, therefore most parents are stupid. Is having stupid parents supposed to be an excuse for being ignorant?

    And it doesn't help the situation one bit, when the only response when concerns are raised is "go away, you are ignorant"

    What if "you are ignorant" is the correct answer? I do not buy the idea that it is the du

I have hardly ever known a mathematician who was capable of reasoning. -- Plato

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