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Television Media Science

Harrods Sells Holographic TV 224

beuh_dave writes "Harrods is selling a holographic TV, CLARO, for £15,000. The Holoscreen is a revolutionary holographic film which displays any image fed through a projector at a specific angle on to a transparent display. All other light is ignored. The result is a remarkably bright and sharp image quality - even in brightly lit environments."
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Harrods Sells Holographic TV

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  • Cool (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:02AM (#11697913) Homepage
    This is pretty cool and pretty looking, but wake me when they have holographic tv's that can display in true 3D.

  • by rebeka thomas ( 673264 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:03AM (#11697918)
    This isn't really "holographic" in the sense of a 3D image in space, or a perception of a 3D image.

    All it is is a screen that hangs in space (or supported by glass as in the site) and only shows images directed on it from a certain angle - from a projector sitting conspicuously on the floor behind it.

    It's pretty, but hardly world shattering.
    • It looked really cool until I saw the projector sat on the floor behind.

      40 inch display is nothing, I have a 72" screen in a room smaller than that.

      Seems like a lot of money for a such a gimmic.
    • Hide the projector in the wall / ceiling and this would be a much better trick - just a sheet of glass with a "magic" image on it.
    • Not only that, but:
      In a standard instillation the projector sits on the floor about 5 feet behind the screen, so while the bulkiness of rear projection screens has literally vanished, it actually occupies a greater amount of space.
      It takes up way more space than a regular projection tv, but let's market it in a way that makes it sound really cool!
      • I have actually seen a home brew on of these in a local store, basically rear projection onto a carefully planned or hacked refraction grid (I cannot wait for make your own sites to be out there)

        The point is, if it gives a good picture I would use a 45 angled mirror to reflect a projector from the ceiling onto this surface.

        Not a transparent solution (because of a mirror) but takes up only about 1 meter behind, and the mirror can fold up into the tv to just be a free standing mirror.

        Add a small motor to t
    • by arodland ( 127775 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @09:24AM (#11698396)
      Maybe it's not really "holographic", whatever the quotes mean, but it is really holographic. It's not a sci-fi holoscreen, but it still uses holography to project a picture.
      • No it isn't holographic at all.

        A method of producing a three-dimensional image of an object by recording on a photographic plate or film the pattern of interference formed by a split laser beam and then illuminating the pattern either with a laser or with ordinary light.

        Their techniques could be called precise refraction at best.
        • by Physics Dude ( 549061 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @02:03PM (#11702097) Homepage
          Their techniques could be called precise refraction at best.
          Sorry, but ... This IS NOT refraction and neither is holography. As I'm sure you're aware, holograms are caused by recording the interference pattern of two wavefronts. After creating a hologram, it will direct light from a prticular direction (a laser usually) to be refracted at different angles. This device utilizes an interference pattern created in the same way as any other holographic film to procuce the same effect, but just utilized in a novel way. The novel aspect of this is that the inteference pattern effectively scatters light only when coming from a particular angle. This screen IS a hologram. It's just being used in a non-traditional manner to achieve a particular result.

          You could say that "Their techniques could be called precise DIFFRACTION", but then again, that's precisely what holography is.

  • by Laurentiu ( 830504 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:04AM (#11697919)
    Carry on. If you need me, I'll be in the holodeck.
    • And obligatory Futurama reference:

      And don't worry about turning on the safety protocols in case a holodeck creation breaks its programming and gets loose and goes on a rampage over the ship ... because, hey, that almost never happens!
  • by Ford Prefect ( 8777 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:06AM (#11697925) Homepage
    I like how 'Harrods' in the summary's URL is misspelt, but that it's a redirect to the real 'harrods.com'. Pre-emptive Slashdot Editor protection! :-)
    • Re:Harods [sic] (Score:5, Informative)

      by Deekin_Scalesinger ( 755062 ) * on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:35AM (#11698178)
      As an unwashed Yank, I gotta tell my fellow compatriots who don't know (of which there are more than I imagined) that Harrod's is a large department store in London, in the Knightsbridge section of town. Now, that is also like saying that Microsoft is a profitable company.

      Harrod's is an amazing store, 8 stories high if I remember correctly, owned by an Arab oil family who's son died in the car crash with Princess Diana. The first floor houses a food court the like of which you have never seen, with every food imaginable. The next couple of floors is devoted to clothing, which is someone boring, although Mrs. Scalesinger got herself a fine looking hat in their haberdashery. Then the floors start to get interesting again, with a large section devoted to true antiques for purchase, going all the way back to the stone age. That depaertment made me somewhat nervous, as it is museum quality with the added spice of "you break, you buy" hanging over the department. Oh yeah, a pub in the basement of the store wheeeee!

      If they have an electronics department (which I guess they have to, from TFA) I don't recall it, as I was so overwhelmed from the rest of the store. Highly pricey and eminently touristy, it is stil a can't miss experience that I enjoy every time I am fortunate enough to be on that side of the big drink.
      • Don't know if this anecdote about Ronald Regan is true, but it's a good one non the less.

        Wisiting Harrod's he was told they could and would deliver anything(tm), so he asked if they could get him an elephant.

        The answer was: "Sir, would that be an african or an indian elephant?"
      • Son, y'all get out to the States and we'll overwhelm you with quantity over quality:

        http://www.mallofamerica.com/about_the_mall/moa_ ph otos.aspx

        The aquariam in the basement is pretty cool, actually.
        • As an unwashed Yank,

          Son, y'all get out to the States

          Umm, aren't most of the unwashed yanks already here? (and the clean ones, too!)

          Never mind the mall of america--both downtown las vegas and the strip will put any food court that takes a mere city block to shame . . .

          hawk, nevadan in exile
      • Re:Harods [sic] (Score:3, Informative)

        by kbahey ( 102895 )

        Owned by an Arab oil family who's son died in the car crash with Princess Diana

        Minor correction: The owner is Mohamed Al-Fayed [wikipedia.org], and he is a self made Egyptian gazillionaire, not a Gulf Arab. He has nothing to do with oil. He is the only member of the 'family' of El Fayed, now that his son Dody is dead.

        I know that most people confuse "Arab" and "Oil" and these things, but it was worth pointing out anyway.

  • Looks like... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Claire-plus-plus ( 786407 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:07AM (#11697929) Journal
    Rear projection onto a transparent screen. Kinda cool but not worth £15000, not by a long shot. It seems to me to be a case of them mixing "can do" up with "should do".
    • I can remember basic projection TV going for in excess of US$10K. My statement to buddy in his 20's was "here's your TV when you retire". If this goes mainstream (and it will) ... the price will come down. It may be 10 years before we see the same setup for ~$1,000...

      As already stated -- new technology is ALWAYS expensive.
    • well, you can get them for up to 100" for under 6000 pounds... 40" starts a little over 2000...

      Of course, you don't get the Limited Edition Harrods Emblem...

      http://www.av-sales.com/html/svs_holoscreen.html [av-sales.com]
  • Beamer? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Why call a beamer 'holographic television'?
    • Re:Beamer? (Score:4, Informative)

      by JohnFluxx ( 413620 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:59AM (#11698072)
      Exactly.

      Holographic means that you are producing/storing a diffraction grating. It doesn't even mean it looks 3D (like the 3D laptop screens - they just have 2 images, that's not holographic).

      Btw, my job is to make holograms :)

    • Why call a beamer 'holographic television'?
      It could make sense if the primary component is a holographically-recorded optical element. However I'm reserving the term "holographic video" for this display [mit.edu],whenever it becomes commercially available.
  • /.'ed (Score:3, Informative)

    by essreenim ( 647659 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:11AM (#11697942)
    Heres the google cache [216.239.59.104].

    It looks great. If money was no obstacle...

    40" transparent screen !! nice : )

    • Re:/.'ed (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Or this one [mirrordot.org] if you want something more than a text cache.
    • Re:/.'ed (Score:3, Informative)

      by 1u3hr ( 530656 )
      Heres the google cache.

      Nice thought, but the Google cache DOESN'T INCLUDE IMAGES. If you see any, they're from the original site, so (for an article like this, where the picture is vital) you'd save time just waiting for the original page to load. (This rant provoked by the idiots modding it "informative", no disrespect meant to the well-intentioned OP.)

      Mirrordot [mirrordot.org] however does usually get both the images and text; if the page isn't brand new, try the Wayback Machine [archive.org].

  • dictionary? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:11AM (#11697944)
    Does anyone want to bother looking up the term hologram in the dictionary....when I think of a holographic TV I don't think of a flat surface displayed onto a tangable object you could easily break if you breath on it the wrong way when it falls over.

    When I think of a hologram I think of being able to throw my beer through my TV next time I see a horrible excuse of a football game...
  • *drool* (Score:2, Funny)

    by hachiman ( 68983 )
    When I first saw the headline, I was thinking that it was something that would display a pseudo 3D image that floats in the air, but even though Iw as disappointed when the site _eventually_ loaded, I have to admit that it is still pretty cool.

    My only concern, and ultimately the only reason I won't buy one (hehehe like I could) is that it takes up too much space. I don't really have the space to put the projector as far back as it needs to be and those speakers.... I'd look like one of the little bad guys
  • Claro tv link (Score:4, Informative)

    by martin ( 1336 ) <<maxsec> <at> <gmail.com>> on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:12AM (#11697946) Journal
    this one [clarotv.co.uk] is a better link to the currently /.-ed site..
    • hmm scrub that comment - one page of not very much info.

      I'll get my coat... ;-)
      • This one [gadgetryblog.com] has more info and some photos if someone is interested.

        IMHO calling (not so usual but anyway) rear projection canvas "holographic" is just a big dummy marketing term.
        • Re:Claro tv link (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Inda ( 580031 )
          Looks good.

          I'm wondering how much of the picture will be displayed on the ceiling after it's passed through the glass? That would not look good.
          • I'm guessing none. If you'll notice the picture has darker-than-transparent portions meaning the actual viewing area probably looks completely black when the unit is off. So I'm guessing if the projector is properly aligned then all of the projection--minus some loss to allow a dark black--is refracted towards the viewer and none to the ceiling.

            It looks cool, but it would be far cooler if the projection film were completely transparent when the unit was off; that would look like art. Having a black rectang
    • This appears to be the manufacturer of the screens...
      http://www.scanvisionscreen.dk/holo.html [scanvisionscreen.dk]
  • Harrods? (Score:5, Funny)

    by panurge ( 573432 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:13AM (#11697950)
    I'll believe in it when I see it in John Lewis.
  • Layers (Score:4, Interesting)

    by EdZ ( 755139 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:18AM (#11697963)
    If it could me modified to only accept projected light from a given angle (grating or a very highly polarised filter perhaps?), sevaral projectors could be used to 'layer' screens into a 3d block display. Expensive, but for people who NEED high quality 3d displays then money is most likely not an object.
    • Re:Layers (Score:5, Interesting)

      by JohnFluxx ( 413620 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:09AM (#11698095)
      A grating was my first thought. It only needs to be very very thin. Basically the idea is to have a micrometer thick layer that looks like this:

      \ \ \ \ \ \

      You can image the \ is a gap, and the white space is some material. Only light with the correct angle will fit perfectly into the gap and be bounced back.

      This is roughly how holograms work, and is called a diffraction grating. (A grating produced from the diffraction between the object light and some reference light)

      Another thought is that they use the brusters angle somehow. If the light is polarised, it would appear brightest (or dimmest, depending on which way is polarised) at exactly 34 degrees to the plate. (For glass that is anyway).

    • several projectors could be used to 'layer' screens into a 3d block display

      No.

      "3D" is not simply layering a bunch of 2D images on top of each other. Frankly that enough folks thought so to mod up this mistake is appalling.

      You can demonstrate this for yourself pretty trivially: Print out a series of images on acetate (overhead transparency plastic.) Now stack them. Look 3D? No, it looks like a bunch of layers on top of each other.

      So what about just printing the outlines of each layer at that depth?

  • I've seen it (Score:5, Informative)

    by djkitsch ( 576853 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:19AM (#11697967)
    I was down there last week, and despite the fact that it's not actually 3D, as the "holographic" would suggest, it does look pretty cool. It basically looks like a sheet of glass with a TV picture hanging in the middle of it - it's bright enough to look good and sharp under showroom lighting, too.

    Not sure it's worth the extortionate price tag for what's essentially a novelty toy, though.
  • astonishing (Score:2, Funny)

    by rich42 ( 633659 )
    the implications for porn are mind numbing.
  • DIY version? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by angryflute ( 206793 )
    Pardon my ignorance, but can't something like this be done with any LCD projector and piece of glass (covered with a one-way reflective material)?
    • Re:DIY version? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Coos ( 580883 )
      Its the "one way reflective material" thats the cunning part, and what you pay all the money for. The surface treatment of the glass 'screen' is what is holographic in this instance, not the image that is generated, which is just a flat TV image. The hologram is such that from your viewing angle, light just passes straight through the glass plate, but from the projectors angle, the glass is opaque enough for an image to form on it like a conventional screen rather than passing straight through like it does
    • Well, I've seen shop window displays that use a projector mounted high up, projecting onto a sheet of frosted glass hanging just inside the window. It looks pretty cool.
    • Re:DIY version? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by polyp2000 ( 444682 )
      I've seen it done - I've seen a few banks and building societies with them dangling in front of the windows. First time i saw one I thought some crazy but amazing display technology had appeared without me hearing about it. When I realised how it was done I thought it was a cool idea but its hardly the height of tech, Its basically a sheet of glass with a "Frosted" panel in the middle. an ordinary common or garden projector displaying the image. I cant say the image was as bright and sharp as they are makin
  • by Hal-9001 ( 43188 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:23AM (#11697986) Homepage Journal
    From the article (which is rather lacking in technical details), the display sounds like a holographically-recorded diffractive optical element on a glass substrate. If so, I'm curious how they compensate for the dispersion intrinsic to the diffraction phenomenon (since selling a 15,000 quid monochrome display is probably not a commercially-viable option :-p). Also, since the display claims to be angularly selective (it has to be if it only accepts a specific projection direction), I wonder if it has a similarly selective viewing angle (like early LCD displays, which were only bright and clear at normal incidence).
    • by stoborrobots ( 577882 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:49AM (#11698034)
      It's actually much cheaper... you can get them from around 2.5 thousand pounds... [av-sales.com]

      • by Hal-9001 ( 43188 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:57AM (#11698231) Homepage Journal
        I think I've worked out the basic details of how this screen works from this link [proscreeninc.com]. The heart of the screen is a diffractive optical element, holographically-recorded on a thin photopolymer layer. Based on the range of acceptance angles, I think the element is the hologram of a 27-degree deviating prism. The viewing angle problem is solved by placing a weak diffuser (an example of a strong diffuser is frosted glass) on the viewing side, either in contact with or in close proximity to the diffractive optical element. The diffuser scatters the projected light over some relatively narrow range of angles (about 25 degrees, according to this link [av-sales.com]). The close proximity of the diffuser also takes care of the dispersion problem because it doesn't give the different colors much distance over which to spread out, and that spread is masked by the angular spread introduced by the diffuser.
    • by billh ( 85947 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:59AM (#11698076)
      Wow. Do we really talk like this? No wonder my wife never understands what I'm saying.
    • What's scary is I can't tell if this is technobabble, or technospeak.
    • From the article (which is rather lacking in technical details), the display sounds like a holographically-recorded diffractive optical element on a glass substrate. If so, I'm curious how they compensate for the dispersion intrinsic to the diffraction phenomenon (since selling a 15,000 quid monochrome display is probably not a commercially-viable option :-p). Also, since the display claims to be angularly selective (it has to be if it only accepts a specific projection direction), I wonder if it has a simi
  • This systems looks very similar to screens I've seen in pubs and shopping centres. Instead of a fancy holgrapic system, all that is used is a bog-standard projector and a piece of frosted glass.
  • how inconvenient (Score:3, Insightful)

    by idlake ( 850372 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:49AM (#11698036)
    Given the way this thing works, it has to sit somewhere in the middle of the room. That is not a good place for a display or TV; it is an even worse place for a transparent piece of glass (because you are going to run into it and knock it over).
    • because you are going to run into it and knock it over

      Didn't your mama tell you not to run in the house? This is exactly what she was thinking of!

    • by ReVMD ( 141168 )
      But the kind of people who are going to buy this will most likely have huge rooms and not really care about it taking a lot of space.
  • Tech info... (Score:5, Informative)

    by stoborrobots ( 577882 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @07:53AM (#11698051)
    It has been around for a while...

    http://www.exn.ca/Stories/2003/03/18/56.cfm [www.exn.ca]
    http://www.anders-kern.de/presse/pr_holoscreen_en. html [anders-kern.de]
    http://www.innovations-vcs.co.uk/main/holoscreen.h tm [innovations-vcs.co.uk]

    You can buy your own one cheap here:
    http://www.av-sales.com/html/svs_holoscreen.html [av-sales.com]

  • by Blitzenn ( 554788 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:07AM (#11698092) Homepage Journal
    "hey Fred, if we get rid of the big box surrounding these old rear projection tv's, Jack the price way up and call em something fancy, I'll bet we can finally sell these things off"

    "Great Idea Barney! Let's call 'em 'Hollow Graphic'. No! No! Wait! I got it Holographic! No one will know the difference!"

    "Yea Fred there's a sucker born every minute."

    "You got that right Barney. Now lets see what we can think up for all these foam tiles these old tv's came packed in."

    "Wait a minute Fred! I already sold those to NASA as shuttle repair kits. You won't believe what they paid me for them!", Fred gives Barney a big High Five.
  • by Anonymous Coward

    My company, Venue Telecom [venuetelecom.com] has been selling this kind of screens for two years now. (We are located in Spain but sell worldwide)

    It's very good, with a good contrast and bright, but it's only for inside. Sun light makes image almost imposible to view.

    Indeed, we have another screen of this kind that is just a slim film. You can stick it to a shop window and it simply rocks.

    If you are interested in buying one, just e-mail me: pgquiles@SPAMPROTECTIONvenuetelecom.com.

  • by Gax ( 196168 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:11AM (#11698105)
    I'd like to know how much these devices will cost elsewhere. Harrods have a reputation for inflating prices above and beyond high street level. For example, a toy that costs £10 in every other shop is selling for £25 in Harrods. You are paying for the experience of shopping in the store.
  • HelioDisplay (Score:2, Interesting)

    by bitrex ( 859228 )
    Not holographic, but I think something like the Heliodisplay http://www.io2technology.com/dojo/178/v.jsp [io2technology.com] is a lot more impressive, considering it can display images in free space "Help me Obi-Wan" style, without any screen whatsoever. Now if only something could be done about its $19,000 price tag...
    • I was just looking at that site (an AC posted it) The whole time I was reading it, I was thinking "this has to be a hoax". Can anyone verify that this is a real product? If it is real (which I doubt) can anyone give some insight into the technology?
  • So? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by KiroDude ( 853510 )
    What would be the main difference from projecting the image into a wall instead of that plastic thing in the middle of your living room??
    You save space!
    This is another one of those "must haves" that you really do not need...
  • Here [wowfactor.org] is film of the Harrods' Christmas display that started all the hype about these screens. Although I feel bound to be cynical about a £20k piece of glass, the Peter Pan display was pretty extraordinary.
  • by wowbagger ( 69688 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:42AM (#11698193) Homepage Journal
    First of all:
    Given we are talking about how wonderful this new tech is, how much contrast it hat - how about some contrast on the freaking article! Come on, grey text on a white background? Obviously we now know where some of the layout people from Wired Magazine went.

    Second of all:
    The pictures in the article look too damn good - I smell retouch. If you want to convice me of the value of this technology, you need to show me a movie of the produce in use, as the camera moves around the room. After all, I can take your average rear-projection TV and make it look fabulous, IF I pick the camera angle to maximize the brightness of the screen. But as anybody who has ever looked at a rear projection TV knows, the "sweet spot" of the image is very narrow, and if you leave it, the image fades tremendously.

    Third of all:
    The single biggest cause of loss-of-contrast on a light sourcing display, be it a projector or a CRT, is the fact that the light in the room is reflected from the screen, making the blacks of the image not black. Now, this display may be wonderful at redirecting the light from the projector, but if the "glass" is clear, and the wall behind it is NOT black, then the blackest the image can be is the color of the wall behind it. If you wanted to truly get deep blacks, you would need to put something like black velvet behind the glass, to absorb the ambient light.

    Fourth of all:
    Back to the viewing angle issue: holographic techniques usually are VERY angle sensitive - the diffraction grating allows light from a very specific angle to be redirected to a very specific angle. Is this image REALLY viewable from more than one or two places in the room?

  • by PsiPsiStar ( 95676 ) on Thursday February 17, 2005 @08:50AM (#11698211)
    ...As of yesterday $1 = 0.532510 Brittish Pounds .
  • MIRROR with PICS (Score:2, Informative)

    by waxxie ( 544732 )
    Site Here [sensoryimpact.com]

    "the new Claro holographic TV (£14,999 plus £9,999 for matching speakers) that allows you to project video on a transparent display. Plus all other light is ignored which means you get a sharp image even in brightly lit environments."

  • by maggard ( 5579 ) <michael@michaelmaggard.com> on Thursday February 17, 2005 @09:33AM (#11698442) Homepage Journal
    Last year a shop in downtown Montreal had this in their window. It was interesting for novelty value, mebbe designers would go gaga over it. I could imagine some uses for it.

    The hook was it being video, apparently floating in the shop window. No wires, no frame, in was creepily like Picture-In-Picture for the real world.

    In the brightly lit shop window the image was equally bright, whatever in the ceiling driving it was pretty powerful. The only evidence there was anything 'going on' at all, beyond a block of video floating in space, was two, nearly invisible, mono-filament lines holding up the sheet of plastic. Also from the sides of the shop window one could spot the edges of the plastic if one looked carefully at the edge of the bright moving distracting video (in short - not obvious at all.)

    Uses aside from novelty value?

    Well as many folks have noted this is just an improvement on the old frosted-sheet-of-plastic trick so anywhere that goes this can can too. Places where you want a display with the only accessible part being a bit of plastic, like in public venues. Also spots where you don't want a lot of hardware 'hanging around' but want a cleaner look.

    I could see this being popular for indoor stadiums, hanging off the edge of the deck above. Those fans are woefully under-served with TV during games (sarcasm).

    Airports are gonna love this. Many have gone from banks of big CRTs squatting over folks to frames of flat panels, this will be the next step in their search for sleek 22nd century tax-paid coolness.

    Designers, heck yeah! The mantra has been "thin is in", but they've still been vexed by cables and how to handle that awkward screen when it's not in use. Here is something that can mounted in the ceiling ($$$), the screen put in a convenient corner, and (with the house cleaner dusting it regularly) won't spoil the elegant lines of the room with evidence of proletarian TV tastes. I bet HGTV just ordered a shipping container of 'em.

    For the rest of us? Unless you've got a real desire for 'floating TV' I bet most /.'ers would rather spend their money on more features & toys then just 'look it *floats*!'.

    YMMV.

  • Harrods have actually had this on display for a couple months, I walked past it when I was Christmas shopping. It was surprising to me that it was visible on the glass under regular lighting, but the picture didn't look far and away higher definition than a good LCD. All in all I (and other customers walking by) found it unimpressive with no one crowded around this, and tons of people around the hug LCDs. So it projects onto glass, big deal. Plus, think about what it would look like if you had the glass a
  • by jafac ( 1449 )
    This is nothing more than a pretty rear-projection TV.
  • ...as much as it is a hyped up rear projection screen. Neat. But still not true holography.

If you have a procedure with 10 parameters, you probably missed some.

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