China To Launch 2 Into Space In September 316
Doug Dante writes "China Daily reports that China's space agency plans to launch two Chinese astronauts into space for a 6-day mission in September. The spacecraft includes both a re-entry and an orbital module. The article, an official publication of the Chinese government in English, also extends a plain invitation for the U.S. to partner with China on space."
Re:Great. (Score:1, Interesting)
There is no reason any more to have a NASA sucking on the US taxpayer's teat in the first place. Let private industry explore space (and assume the risk and reap the rewards).
Tech transfer (Score:4, Interesting)
The biggest red-herring is all that stuff about tech transfer. China gets more tech transfer every day from US tech companies moving to China than anything they can get from building equipment to spec for joint space ventures. Most space work is pretty basic and is only a subset of regular industrial processes. There isn't really anything that special about it.
Once China starts to show up the USA.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Will launching 2 men into space do this? No..But its a start to eventual competition as long as China's economy continues to grow, and doesn't bust like the former Soviet Union.
Re:Good (Score:2, Interesting)
What? Did you not follow the US-Russia space race at all? "Co-operation" between an anti-communist democratic republic and a pro-communist People's republic is nothing more than politicized espionage. It can't possibly be anything else.
Build up trust, knock down militarisation.
Oh, is that what happened between the US and Russia? Because the way I saw it was that Russia lost, and now only the US gets to militarize space. I haven't yet seen any indication that the end of the Cold War did anything but speed up the US militarization of space.
"Co-operation" in peacetime means the strongest side gets to do as they wish, and the weaker side, faced with abject nuclear annihilation, can do nothing except "co-operate".
If you think China's space program has any other primary goal except militarization of space, you are naive and deluded. If you think any government space program has ever had any other goal, you are naive and deluded. Relying on government propaganda to accurately depict world events is stupid and inexcusable. And so is rooting for a Chinese (as in the PRC, not the race) presence in space because of idealized notions of the motivation. China is a totalitarian dictatorship guilty of the worst conceivable tyranny against its own people, and of repeated, actual and threatened, aggression upon its freer neighbors. It is an avowed enemy of the United States of America. Offering them moral sanction by way of cheerleadering on slashdot is nothing but despicable.
asians tend to be good at refinement... (Score:4, Interesting)
the chinese will be the country to watch in the next few decades. they are still one of the few communist countries in existance, they have the biggest population on the globe, and they are entering the growth and refinement stage that japan, korea, and other southeastern dragons went thru in the 19th and 20th century. they also have some of the biggest problems in the world; they have the biggest population on the globe(organization will be difficult), they are still communist(not good for innovation), and they are entering a stage i their cutural development which might require more capitalistic injection from the west.
the fact that the chinese will fly more taikonauts this year has IMHO a few big implications:
1) we have the economy to support a state run space program
2) we have the cultural drive and support of the people
3) we have the resouces to make this happen
4) the biggest one is this-we're flexing our muscles-don't fuck with us!
it's also interesting that according to the article, they are extending a welcome hand in talking about working together with nasa. this is a simple publicity move to bolster their rising technical position within the world and it basically says, "we're growing up as a country and we're not to far behind you. team up with us now, and you won't be eating our dust. don't and you might get fucked". afterall the united states government has really taken a beating in the last few years regarding space, space travel safety, and global joint projects(ISS). right now the chinese are on the upswing, they are just entering the golden area of space travel that the uinited states and ussr were going thru in the 1950-1990's(golden area in terms of economic and workforce resources as well as national support). there's really a lot of multi-facet/multi-layered pros and cons teaming up with the chinese... some are good, others could be not so good. hope this venture doesn't turn america into an obedient dog on a chinese leash...
Re:Astronauts? (Score:3, Interesting)
Usually the word that is most frequently used will be the one that is correct. There are numerous of examples of this. I understand that the Chinese officially use the word astronaut, but if we decide use the word taikonaut instead (which our media at least in my experience has), it will be the word we should use, because it is the word we are familiar with.
My hope is that they get the hubble (Score:3, Interesting)
Would make me happy. China would be able to get a benefit and the hubble would be able to survive. not to mention that a high publicity scientific partnership with china would help our international record.
Re:A matter of pride (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually you are the one who is probably innaccurate though we will never know for sure. NASA was probably under substantial political pressure from the Reagan administration to launch on schedule. Reagan was going to trumpet the "Teacher in Space" in his imminent State of the Union address and they probably wanted he to actually be in space when he made the speech.
If you weren't under some kind of pressure why would you press ahead with a launch on "a bitterly cold day" The launch pad was completely iced up, they had NEVER had a day that cold for a launch. The freezing and the ice created all kind of potential dangers, the brittle O rings was just the one that led to disaster, falling ice damaging the shuttle was the one they were very worried about. If they weren't under pressure why wouldn't you way until a warmer day. If they had the O rings most probably wouldn't have failed. NASA postpones launches for a lot less than the launch pad bering covered in ice and all the components being below typical temperature.
Re:A matter of pride (Score:3, Interesting)
That wasn't exactly "go fever", that was a fundamental flaw in their design, though perhaps they were rushing when they made it long before, just like the O rings were. Its not the same thing as using some discretion and postponing a launch until the launch pad isn't covered in ice and everything thaws out.
"Apollo 12 (launching in a thunderstorm with lightning)"
Thunderstorms are a daily occurrence in Florida. They are a constant risk and you have to learn to launch with them in the neighborhood, or you don't launch, though obviously its desirable to not launch through them. Having large quantities of explosives sticking up in the air, at risk of a lightening strike, is a risk you have to accept having a launch pad in Florida. To put it another way, waiting for a clear day in Florida is nearly an exercise in futility. On the other hand postponing a launch due to ice on the launch pad is something you will have to do once in a blue moon in Florida so you probably should.
"Again, you've provided no proof that there was political pressure of any kind involved in the decision to launch."
And you CAN'T prove there wasn't. I was mostly objecting to the fact that you were stating it as fact there was no pressure, which you can't prove either. At least I was couching my counterpoint as a possibility, not as a fact which was your mistake. Circumstantial evidence suggests something was pushing NASA to launch on a day they shouldn't have. Pressure from the White House is one possibility. Unless you get the people in NASA who made the launch decision on a lie detector you will probably never know.
So why don't you stop stating as fact something you can't prove and slamming me for stating something as a possibility that is a possibility.
"That explains your obvious affinity for wild conspiracy theories, I guess."
Michael Moore has nothing to do with the fact George Bush was so indiscrete as to say this on camera in front of a bunch of tuxedo clad fat cats, even if it was supposed to be a joke(much truth is said in jest). It was a well known Bush gaffe, one of many, long before Michael Moore used it. I was quoting George W. Bush not Michael Moore it has nothing to do with a "conspiracy", its on video tape.
Re:such a gulf of misunderstanding (Score:1, Interesting)
The government, naturally, trupeted loudly and lengthily about the glories of the P.R.C. I later heard that the U.S. subsequently forbade U.S. scientists from certain types of collaboration with the Chinese space program, and that Chinese scientists were crying with frustration; they had thought that the U.S. would welcome them onto the world stage with open arms (especially given that their launch was made in large measure with U.S. know-how), and instead they were getting the cold shoulder...
China is a cool, but crazy, place. If they ever manage to halve their population they'll be a force in the world to reckon with. If not they'll be powerful, but too burdened with the peasantry to achieve their full potential.
Re:Money for Space but None for Tsunami Victims (Score:3, Interesting)
The Chinese consider being Chinese to be a blood thing, not a matter of legal citizenship or passport, or even connection with Chinese culture. Therefore, an ABC who has lived in California for 4 generations and knows little or nothing about China and the Chinese is considered Chinese. This extends to all overseas Chinese communities.
Anyway, my view is that this isn't a good excuse. We Americans also disagree with much of Indonesia's political activities, both past and present. Don't forget, though, that we initially pledged only 35 million USD, and are much more wealthy.
The Chinese could definitely give more (in fact, everyone could). But maybe this bit of background information explains a little bit about why the people are responding the way they are.