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Biotech Technology

That's Using Your Head 303

broKenfoLd writes "In an earlier post, we looked at the future of Matrix-esque control over computers. In that article, monkeys got to play the games. Today at UW in Madison, WI, it's the humans who are playing video games just by thinking about it. While this is cool for us power gamers, it has many more impressive applications, including limb replacement."
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That's Using Your Head

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  • by fembots ( 753724 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @10:25PM (#11004772) Homepage
    At first I thought it was a dupe from this [slashdot.org], but the article did mention - "Last month, researchers at Brown University reported on the technology's success in a 25-year-old quadriplegic from Massachusetts who was able to read e-mail, play video games, turn on lights, and change channels or adjust the volume on a TV."

    The final comment was "This is a significant development", but in what way?
  • What's new? (Score:2, Informative)

    by coekie ( 603995 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @10:46PM (#11004912) Homepage
    Similar stuff been covered before in:
    Brain Controlled Computing a Reality [slashdot.org]
    Playing Games With One's Brainwaves [slashdot.org]
    Brain Chip Approved For Paralysis Research [slashdot.org]
    Brain Controlled Tightrope Video Game Shown [slashdot.org]

    So "what's new"? Is it a new technique this time, has major progress been made? If so, what's the big difference compared to the previous articles?
  • by Spy Hunter ( 317220 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @10:47PM (#11004917) Journal
    This technology is not what people often think it is. There is no way it could be used for mind-reading or thought control in the forseeable future. We would have to understand the brain a LOT better than we do to even begin to think about these things, plus we would need interface technology a million times better than a few electrodes.

    Basically how this works is the brain adapts to the implanted electrodes, learning how to activate neurons in the right way such that a computer can detect the changes in electrical potential at the electrodes. The computer can't interpret the signals at all; it just reads potentials from the electrodes. What makes this interesting is that the brain is quite adaptable, and if the signals are used to control the inputs to a device the brain can learn to use the device much like an extra limb.

    It remains to be seen just how fine and complex the control can be and how much adaptation the brain can do; but I think the medical community has been way too conservative about this so far, and I am optimistic that once we learn the right places to put the electrodes and the right way to process the brain's signals, controlling mice/keyboards/game controllers/robot limbs will be a matter of a few implants and a year or two of training. The benefit to quadriplegics will be immesurable. For the rest of us, this technology is probably not very useful. Getting the implants and doing the training will be quite an ordeal, not something you'd do to get an edge in Counter-Strike (if it even would give you an edge at all).

  • Re:The next step (Score:2, Informative)

    by akuma624 ( 690011 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @11:28PM (#11005136) Journal
  • BrainPort (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ibag ( 101144 ) on Sunday December 05, 2004 @11:36PM (#11005174)
    I don't know if this is quite what you meant, but this story [slashdot.org] was about a device that allowed you to gain or regain senses by putting a pad in your mouth. While you can recieve the signals to other parts of the body, they found that the tounge was the most receptive.

    It isn't entirely input from a computer, but I don't see why the signals couldn't be generated artificially and sent to a device like this.
  • by QuantumG ( 50515 ) <qg@biodome.org> on Sunday December 05, 2004 @11:41PM (#11005198) Homepage Journal
    I know you're a genius, and that us little people should kneel before you, but the concept of jacking into a computer is a lot older than the Matrix and something us geeks have talked about for a very long time. The fact that I use the Matrix to talk about jacking in doesn't make my arguments any less worthy of consideration - just like the fact that Martin Fowler uses Smalltalk to explain XP techniques sometimes doesn't make it any less applicable to Java, C++ or any other object-oriented language (even though to some Smalltalk is more fiction than fact).
  • by raehl ( 609729 ) <raehl311@@@yahoo...com> on Sunday December 05, 2004 @11:45PM (#11005215) Homepage
    I think he meant, how is the UW development (ooo, they can move the bar in pong!) significant comopared to the Brown development (He can read email!)

    I think the key difference is that the Brown electrodes were places IN the brain, while the UW electrodes were placed ON the brain, so it was less invasive.
  • Gibson's story (Score:4, Informative)

    by lastberserker ( 465707 ) <babanov@ea[ ]link.net ['rth' in gap]> on Sunday December 05, 2004 @11:59PM (#11005277) Homepage Journal
    Dunno how it's connected to the "Forbidden Planet," but the development is 1:1 what is described in the "Dogfight" by William Gibson.
  • by Spy Hunter ( 317220 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @12:53AM (#11005453) Journal
    I think the social stigma surrounding cyborgs and brain implants, plus the cost and risk of the brain implant surgery, plus the cost of the training, plus the fact that you will have a permanent metal plug in your head (probably with a constant risk of infection), plus the years of training it will probably take to actually perform better than using your hands (if that is even possible, there's no guarantee), will make people reluctant to just go out and do this.

    If it didn't require brain surgery and only took a few months to learn, though, I could definitely see it taking off. Also, if it turns out that people can enhance their performance at certain tasks by extreme amounts (which I am not at all convinced of), it could become somewhat common in those fields.

  • Unlikely (Score:3, Informative)

    by Mornelithe ( 83633 ) on Monday December 06, 2004 @03:27AM (#11005898)
    While quantum entanglement does exist, and entangled particles can be separated from one another by an arbitrary distance, it is unlikely to cause the effects you describe.

    First, maintaining entangled particles is rather difficult in practice. Entanglement happens when the properties of two particles are interrelated, although the specific values are not. For example, the decay of a radioactive atom might release two photons with correlated polarizations, though you don't know which way each photon is polarized. You can then perform certain operations to change the photon's polarization, and those changes will be reflected in the entangled photon's polarization, and when you measure the polarization of one, the other's is guaranteed to correspond, based on how they were emitted.

    However, once you measure the polarization, and know both values, the two photons are no longer entangled and any changes to one's polarization will no longer affect the other. There are also any number of other operations that will cause the particles to no longer be entangled with one another, such as giving a new, known value to the entangled property. For instance, if you have two particles whose spin is correlated (say they're both equal), and take one and cause it to have spin +1/2, that doesn't necessarily cause the other particle to have spin +1/2. You need to do things like changing +1/2 to -1/2, and vice versa, which don't collapse the uncertainty of the system.

    The actual class of operations that preserves entanglement is relatively limited compared to the total number of operations possible (I believe the ones that can preserve entanglement are unitary reversible operators, or some such, which are of specific interest to quantum computing, which makes lots of use of entanglement).

    In other words, the probability that two particles at either end of your fingernail would be entangled is pretty small, let alone in two separate human beings. There are two many other particles to bump into, and that tends to destroy entanglement.

    Furthermore, I'd add that even in the quantum teleportation case, where correlated states change instantaneously, to decipher the instantaneously transferred state requires that the people communicating transmit information to one another that must be sent at the speed of light or less. It works like this:
    1. Alice creates entangled particles A, B, and sends B to Bob.
    2. Alice performs appropriate transformations on A to encode information
    3. Alice measures A, and sends the measurement to Bob via normal channels
    4. Bob measures B and uses the measurement of A to decode B's measure into the information in step 2.

    So even though information is theoretically transferred faster than light, that information cannot be deciphered without sending other information slower than/at the speed of light, so in practice you cannot transmit data faster than the speed of light would allow.

    I realize my explanations may have been confusing, but unfortunately I struggle with some of the concepts myself, so it's difficult for me to explain them. However, if you learn a little more about quantum mechanics, I think it'll become clear that a lot of the ideas in your post aren't really possible (at least, as far as our current understanding of quantum mechanics goes).

Math is like love -- a simple idea but it can get complicated. -- R. Drabek

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