EU Intent on Hosting International Fusion Reactor 441
Raunch writes "The BBC says that EU is determined to be one of the sites that host the multi-billion-dollar International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor Even if they have to do so less-than-internationally: 'If there is no agreement at six we are determined to do it with fewer.' Not only that, but 'The EU wants an agreement on the project before the end of the year'"
big money, intl relations... (Score:5, Insightful)
- local construction companies (high end ones)
- local infrastructure (data, transport, etc)
- ongoing salaries being spent in the local villages
- pride for the news bylines containing $GLORIOUS_MOTHERLAND
I understand the US is pretty agnostic to location (realizing that the one thing all the other 5 could agree that it would absolutely not be the US)-- but with recent developments where Paris is not so much the US friend, and Tokyo is ever more loyal, I wouldn't be surprised if the US starts to put its thumb on the scales...
*Sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
This is something so important to the people of the world, and all the politicians can think of is to fight about where it will be placed.
I just wish, for once, these people would get out of their petty mindsets and realize that the more important issue here is NOT where it's going to be, but what it is going to do.
Er, go ahead with the flaming about the evil terrorists who will destroy the reactor or take over the worlds energy sources now.
The EU isn't stupid... (Score:5, Insightful)
Supposedly this reactor would represent the last major step required before, hopefully, fusion power stations could become a reality. The EU very naturally wants t locate it in Europe, thus giving Europe a stronger edge and focus in alternative energy research.
Interestingly the alternate site is not in the US, but rather in Japan. And that is certainly what the EU is worried about - the Japanese economy, afte a decade and more of recession is finally starting to crawl back. And the Japanese are very good at small and efficient, and are already leading the world (jointly with Korea I guess) in alternative power transport (hybrids, and hydrogen fuel cell cars).
It will be interesting to see how the fight finally plays out.
Jedidiah.
EU != France (Score:5, Insightful)
EU Intent on Hosting International Fusion Reactor
No. I should read 'France Intent on Hosting International Fusion Reactor'. France and Japan have been battling over the reactor since the project was announced. It looks like the consortium will splinter. That is not a bad thing. It might inject some real high stakes competition into nuclear fusion reaseach.
Re:*Sigh* (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't be greedy my Blair (Score:3, Insightful)
The outsourcing of work to other countries is also keeping our inflation low, cheep imports=low inflation, we hardly produce any food in this country.
So don't be greedy, let a heavily polluting country like China or a country with next to no resources like Japan have the pride in have a fusion research faculty.
Re:The french want it, let them have it (Score:2, Insightful)
I can only think of one country that actually dislikes the French at the moment and that's the US.
Re:The USA probably tries to (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Don't be greedy my Blair (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:France Has Access To Cheaper Power (Score:0, Insightful)
Mod parent down please.
Re:To preempt some things (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:To preempt some things (Score:5, Insightful)
But anything that suggests that the US is anti-science and politically vindictive automatically gets a +5 insightful.
What would be the problem.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Or maybe I'm just hoping for some rational, reasonable thinking and not politics.... Hmmm... That'll be the day....
Re:The USA probably tries to (Score:3, Insightful)
You're assuming the current government of the United States cares more about the interests of their country, than about their very own private interests.
The very last thing an administration packed with oil executives wants, is their country's dependance on oil to vanish.
Re:The USA probably tries to (Score:4, Insightful)
The US would *love* to get rid of the oil dependency
No, the GP is pretty much right: the US just want the whole "oil situation" to stay the way it is right now.
Right now, US economy is pretty much sustained by the fact that, if you want oil, you must purchase it in dollars - thus you are buying a small part of the left-pondist's debt each time.
So, the world dependency on oil is, actually, an advantage for the US.
Re:To preempt some things (Score:1, Insightful)
I don't get it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Some useful links for fusion discussion. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:The USA probably tries to (Score:3, Insightful)
This is why the USA is so keen to cultivate a special friendship with Britain, and to poison her against the EU. But right now, British politics are in a mess. Blair is bad but Howard would probably be ever so slightly worse. Only the Lib Dems, and maybe the Greens, have anything sensible to say -- but they won't get elected because everybody knows, they're wasted votes.
I honestly don't see much in terms of a solution, until the oil really does start running out. Since Britain has {had?} some oil reserves of her own, this may start biting sooner rather than later
Its about time (Score:2, Insightful)
The first post is completely wrong about it being a "threat" to China or anyone else. China *wants* the reactor to be built in the EU instead of Japan. So does the other ITER member, Russia. If the US hadn't opposed the french location and induced Japan to resist it more strongly despite the odds, the project would have went ahead some time ago.
Unlike nuclear fission power, fusion power has enough fuel available that it could potentially supply all of the world's energy demand for thousands and even millions of years and it doesn't produce nearly as much dangerous nuclear waste nor can fusion power be used as a disguise for a nuclear weapons program. The amount of deuterium for fusion is practically unlimited - 1 kg of ordinary water contains about 1 gram of heavy water which contains deuterium instead of common hydrogen. It seems that, unlike in the past decades where the researchers said "Fusion Power will be ready soon, there are just some issues which we expect to have resolved soon if we get more money." it now is "We have the issues resolved and could build a reactor that can sustain a fusion reaction and give a net output of energy. Now we just need the money to build a reactor sufficiently large so we can prove and make sure that it works like we think it does."
Of course with such a pretty-much-as-cheap-as-coal technology available as the solar [www.sbp.de] tower [enviromission.com.au] that is so simple in its function, provides steady uninterrupted power, and about which relevant laws of nature are so well understood that it is guaranteed to work, it may be questionable if we actually have a reasonable need for fusion power on earth. Of course, solar towers need a sunny place to build them in order to be efficient and they don't need any high-tech to build either, which may well be the reason why the west has mostly stopped supporting the technology. Solar tower for large scale electricity production can be build with just basic construction materials like mostly cement, steel and glass(which is sand) and with labor. Ideal if you want to help many poor countries, but inadequate if you want them to stay poor and dependent to keep exploiting them.
Re:big money, intl relations... (Score:4, Insightful)
As a French myself, let me tell you something : you're utterly wrong. We like americans unless they try to bully us. And being pride and quite arrogant, we really have a big issue with Bush. Other than that, and at least until Bush and his cronies started to spit on France, we thought americans as some of our best friends.
But, hey, given the current mentality in US, I think that like too many of your compatriots, you prefer to think of you as nice, and surely the rest of the world drools with envy about your country, and so acts as assholes against you right ?
Oh, and outside of your fantasy world, we don't have an attitude towards Americans, we have an attitude towards assholes bullies, and religious maniacs. Trouble is, Bush is both. Fortunally, and unlike you, we don't make stupid generalizations and confuse your president with all americans.
Re:The USA probably tries to (Score:3, Insightful)
Bush was like "Har har har! Those puny enviro-freaks in Europe are looking remove the world's dependence on lovely polluting oil! Har har har! Do not worry Cheney, we will stop those enviro-freaks from giving everyone including us power to run our economy."
Joining with Bush's evil laughter, Cheney said, "Har har har! They can not stop us! Only Captain Planet could save them now!"
And at that moment Captain Planet burst through wall, made some witty environmentally friendly retorts, saved the day, and installed Ralph Nader as our new supreme leader.
If Bush really was looking to kiss industries ass, there is no reason why he would block cheap power, no matter where it came from. The oil industry is one very small industry that profits off of oil. EVERY SINGLE OTHER industry is hurt when power is expensive. So, even if Bush eats babies and wants to promote world evil, cheap power is still the name of the game.
Re:EU unilateralism hurts world cooperation (Score:3, Insightful)
You do know what the EU is don't you? It's (roughly) 30, sovereign, nations that all agree to co-operate. When it comes to co-operation I think Europe can teach the US an awful lot.
Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Insightful)
Uhhmm, think for a second, ok? What fusion -> cheap energy -> cheap way of making H2 from H2O. Then you put H2 into a fuel cell and you get electricity for your car. H2 is just a replacement for "regular" batteries.
Secondly, a lot of electricity is produced using oil.
Thirdly, many people in US use fosil fuels (oil gas) to heat their homes in winter. With fusion you can switch to electrical heating.
And finally, fusion solves all internation problems with "we need U235 for our reactors for peaceful purposes" bullshit. If fusion reactor existed today, there would be no excluse for countries like Iran enriching uranium.
Re:To preempt some things (Score:2, Insightful)
Clean up your own garden before picking on the neighbours.
Re:big money, intl relations... (Score:1, Insightful)
What about China? China does not want the reactor in Japan becuase China-Japan political relations are strained right now. Japan is threatened by China becoming, well, the new Japan and China is still upset over the WWII attrocities perpetrated on it by Japan. (I am not discounting those attrocities, just that most people in power now were not alive at that time and I have a problem with the sins of the father being visited upon the child.)
What I want to know is, what are the advantages to either site over the other? We all know great stuff comes out of Japan (maglevs), and that Europe has a tradition associated with fusions research.
I would hope you all would be concerned with the technical issues much more than the political. This is slashdot, and news for nerds should have a rational basis, not an emotional one.
It is just my opinion.
Re:To preempt some things (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:France paying off Japan with Sadams money? (Score:2, Insightful)
EXPERIMENTAL Reactor (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:big money, intl relations... (Score:2, Insightful)
The European nations mostly realized that pillaging each other every other decade is not a good thing. They, at least Germany and France, had to fear each other far more than some far away, barely post-isolationist nation that one day might aspire to become a super-power.
Re:Nobody wants it in their backyard (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you have any idea how many fisson reactors Japan operates?
Re:The USA probably tries to (Score:3, Insightful)
(1) http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/pro duct/enduse/imports/c0000.html/ us.html
(2) http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos
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