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Space United States Science

Titan's Smooth Surface Baffles Scientists 319

JazMuadDib writes "Scientists expected a few rough spots when their space drone snapped close-range images of Titan, Saturn's largest moon. Instead, the planetlike moon appears to have a bizarre, mysteriously smooth surface, and Tuesday's images have left them in a state of wonder. Read more at the Tucson Citizen." NASA's Cassini pages have a wide assortment of images and analysis. Cassini's data has already thrown scientists for loop.
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Titan's Smooth Surface Baffles Scientists

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  • by Konowl ( 223655 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @07:40PM (#10658913)
    There could be massive mountains and deep valleys there, or the surface could be completely flat. At this point, there's no way to tell.

    Am I missing something? The title of the slashdot entry discusses the smooth surface, but I RTFA, and scientists don't KNOW... period?
  • by mbrod ( 19122 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @07:49PM (#10658982) Homepage Journal
    In the science briefing today a number of the scientists commented on how with the radar data there are no peaks of valleys over 50 meters. The visual is hard to tell the height but with the radar they know.
  • by deglr6328 ( 150198 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @07:49PM (#10658987)
    They do know something, but not much. Take a look a the first synthetic aperture [nasa.gov] radar image and first altimetry [nasa.gov] scan of Titan's surface (there's only a variation of like 50 meters!) and compare this to the synthetic aperture radar from Magellan at Venus [nasa.gov] . For one thing there are practically no craters on the Titan radar image!!! Its a "new" surface!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 28, 2004 @07:57PM (#10659032)
    Read this [nasa.gov]

    Extract:
    The data show a variation in height of only about 150 meters (490 feet) over the 400-kilometer-long (250-mile-long) track, indicating that in this region Titan is remarkably flat.
  • by Carnildo ( 712617 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @08:06PM (#10659093) Homepage Journal
    I am hoping that the radar data can provide the elevation data they lack from the visual stuff.

    Looking at some of the preliminary radar data (here [nasa.gov]), there's a strip 400km long, with no more than 100 meters of height variation. That's flatter than the state of Kansas!
  • by benhocking ( 724439 ) <benjaminhocking@[ ]oo.com ['yah' in gap]> on Thursday October 28, 2004 @08:13PM (#10659139) Homepage Journal
    I'm not even an amateur astronomer but I've been GLUED to these news reports. Didn't Arthur C. Clarke land the Chinese on Titan in 2063 or 3001, only to be eat by a methane-sea monster? Of course, Imperial Earth has Titan colonized.

    Actually it was on Europa in 2010. This premise (well, at least the premise of a liquid ocean) was backed up by the Galileo space probe when it reached Europa. Ganymede might also have a liquid ocean, but Europa still looks like the best place to look for life, IMHO. Granted, I'm not holding my breath.

  • landing on titan (Score:5, Informative)

    by gatrox ( 826121 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @08:15PM (#10659157)
    Cassini carries huygens, a land probe which will (hopefully) land on Titan on january 14th. There is an interesting story on ieee spectrum [ieee.org] about an engineer who prevented the mission from certain failure.
  • by bani ( 467531 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @08:23PM (#10659187)
    right here [nasa.gov]

    fascinating stuff. shows titan flat as a pancake for 100's of kilometers.
  • by Anders Andersson ( 863 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @08:27PM (#10659209) Homepage
    Also, the interesting thing about Titan is that the cloud cover which should be methane seems to be composed of something else, altogether. Particles such as ethane and even polystyrene have been suggested as possible cloud particles.

    Among the recent images provided by NASA is a graph showing data from the ion and neutral mass spectrometer [nasa.gov] as Cassini sniffed Titan's upper atmosphere (far away from the cloud at the southern pole, if I understand it correctly). Some compounds have been identified by mass and labelled, such as hydrogen (2 Da), methane (16 Da) and nitrogen (28 Da).

    However, I wonder what that unlabelled band at 7 Da (between hydrogen and methane) represents. What molecule could possibly have a mass of 7? I haven't taken a chemistry class since 1980, so please help me decode this. Are we seeing lithium ions or something?

    As for the speculation that the clouds contain some "organic goo", didn't someone long ago suggest that the moon was made of cheese..?

  • by rhombic ( 140326 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @08:48PM (#10659322)
    Remember, mass specs measure mass over charge (m/z). The peak at 8 is probably double charged methane (16/2=8)

  • Re:Excellent news!! (Score:5, Informative)

    by nofx_3 ( 40519 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @09:06PM (#10659431)
    Or maybe with "God damnit, how did this mold get on my cultures. Ok, who left the damned window open?" followed closely by "Hey, why aren't any of the germs near the mold? Hmm thats odd"

    -kaplanfx
  • by daniel23 ( 605413 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @09:10PM (#10659451)
    > Titan is believed to be heated by gravitation stress from Jupiter...

    Titan is a moon of Saturn, not Jupiter.
  • by angst_ridden_hipster ( 23104 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @09:30PM (#10659542) Homepage Journal
    Depends on the kind of radar, and the techniques used.

    If they're doing Synthetic Aperture interferometry (i.e., multiple pass analysis), they can get range, azimuth, and phase, which can give outstanding accuracy (see, for example, Zebker and Goldstein's Topographic Mapping From Interferometric Synthetic Aperture Radar Observations, Journal of GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, Vol. 91, NO. B5, pp. 4993-4999, Apr., 1986)

    There's a decent online summary of the technique at http://www.gisdevelopment.net/aars/acrs/1997/ts6/t s6006.shtml

    Now, since it's a spaceship fly-by, there's not as much chance for doing interferometry. You still have pretty good ranging signals. I don't know the accuracy in terms of meters, though.

    I think they'll be doing SAR interferometry at some point in the project, but not yet. I think they'll do it from orbit, like Magellan did over Venus.
  • by ChrisCampbell47 ( 181542 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @10:58PM (#10659915)
    Aaargh, I'm going to blow modding a thread to respond to this post ...

    Many people are confusing two separate issues here: visual imaging and radar topography. On this one pass, and on each of the other passes, Cassini will get A) visual image data on large parts of Titan's surface and B) radar topography on a SMALL PART. The radar sequence is very short -- they just get a little strip of radar data at closest approach and then that's it for that pass.

    OVER MONTHS AND YEARS, they will gather enough to put it together and form a complete body of INTEGRATED visual and topographic data, and then we'll get the cool flyover renderings that make us all wet our pants.

    But for now they have lots of visual data, which they CAN NOT use for determining topographic details due to the lack of shadowing, and a tiny bit of radar which they CAN.

  • Re:Tucson, Titan (Score:5, Informative)

    by phliar ( 87116 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @11:01PM (#10659926) Homepage
    Interesting that the article is in the "Local News" section of the Tucson Citizen.
    "Jonathan Lunine, UA professor of theoretical planetary science and physics and a scientist on the Cassini mission, says..."

    As in, University of Arizona, in Tucson. Which happens to be a leader in planetary science.

  • by purfledspruce ( 821548 ) on Thursday October 28, 2004 @11:12PM (#10659990)
    They should have been using the SAR during this pass. I don't actually work for the mission, though, so I can only go with the press releases and the website...I'm such a newbie to html that I don't know how to do links, so you'll have to cut-and-paste:

    http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/inst-cassini -radar-details.cfm

    This link has a complete description of the RADAR instrument (along with the other instruments), which has a SAR built in but for height measurements is using a straight radar altimeter with "resolution between 90 and 150m"

  • Re:No.... (Score:3, Informative)

    by jdray ( 645332 ) on Friday October 29, 2004 @12:26AM (#10660347) Homepage Journal
    Well, I can't say (unfortunately) that I'm a parent. Were I a parent, I wouldn't let a 13-year old read it. OTOH, I read it when I was 17. One of my high-school teachers recommended it, loaned it to me even. He did qualify it by saying that it had some mature content and wanted to know up front if I would be bothered by that. I read the whole series straight through (Titan, Wizard, Demon) and loved them. I don't remember the violence being any worse than a lot of other things teens read, including Tolkien. There was definitely a lot of sex, including a lesbian love affair between two main characters.

    But it's been twenty years since I read it, and the fog of time may cloud my memory.
  • by Audacious ( 611811 ) on Friday October 29, 2004 @01:29AM (#10660681) Homepage
    All planets (and moons) have magnetic fields. They also have gravitational fields. Titan's core could be different from our own. Our planet, due to it's proximity to the Sun and the fact that we are in a smaller area with more planets, is affected to a greater extent than Titan would be. (Titan is more affected by Saturn and any of the other moons around Saturn.) In our world, we have enough gravity to hold a denser atmosphere than Titan or Mars. Thus, we can live but also, because we are bombarded by and affected by cosmic, solar, gamma, gravitational, and other forces, our world is actually unsteady, volatile, and changeable or mutable. Our world is actually quite deadly to us it is just that the speed at which things change is very slow. Still, remember the massive earthquake in California just a few years ago that destroyed freeways, buildings, and killed many people. That is just a tiny fraction of the forces which could be unleashed. Mount St. Helens, 20 mile in diameter blast radius. Or the island of Krakatoa. Dust scattered all around the world when that volcanoe blew up.

    But to answer your questions:

    1. Yes, it could have a liquid core and probably does but also just as likely that the core is no where near as large as our own.

    2. Not true. An extremely small liquid core (a few thousand miles across) would not be large enough to case the crust to move. Parts under the crust maybe - but not the crust itself. And even then the movement would be constrained well below the surface.

    3. Untrue again. It is composition of the core and not whether the core is liquid or not which would give the moon/planet/whatever a magnetic field. A world made of balsa wood the size of Jupiter would not have a magnetic core - but it would have a gravitational field. A world made up almost entirely of metallic molecules would have both a magnetic as well as a gravitational field.
  • by madaxe42 ( 690151 ) on Friday October 29, 2004 @06:23AM (#10661600) Homepage
    a) Titan is a moon of Saturn

    b) A major collision is in no way necessary, sorry.

    c) What you've written about gravitational stress is correct - tidal forces (difference in pull on various parts of planet due to varying radial distance from Saturn) cause the entire planet to be mildly deformed - think about tides on earth - if the sun, which is millions of miles away, can pull our water around (and the entire earth, a little, actually), think how magnified the forces must be that much closer to a massive body. This is the primary mechanism for liquidity and internal energy in any planetary body.

    d) Fission is likely in any sufficiently dense object. Due to the great heat in the core, denser elements (such as uranium, plutonium, other radioactive elements) will sink to the bottom, where they will reach critical masses and fiss. In addition, fusion is likely, because electron degeneracy can be overcome in planetary cores.

    e) If the core is ferrous, there will be a magnetic field. This will result in a 'dynamo' effect, causing further heating.
  • Wrong moon of saturn (Score:3, Informative)

    by hazee ( 728152 ) on Friday October 29, 2004 @06:35AM (#10661630)
    Rather remarkably, the Death Star does actually appear to be in orbit around Saturn, but it's not Titan, it's Mimas [nineplanets.org].
  • by Iron Sun ( 227218 ) on Friday October 29, 2004 @08:35AM (#10662007)

    2. Saturn. Saturn's gravity well sucks asteroids and other debri into it thus protecting Titan.

    Jupiter has a bigger gravity well than Saturn, and the surfaces of Ganymede and Callisto are heavily cratered. Europa has some craters, but would seem to be resurfaced by water gushing/oozing onto the surface. Io has very few craters, not unexpected for the most active surface in the solar system.

    It's not like the central planet hoovers all imactors away from its moons. In fact, the greater number of objects falling into the system would likely increase the number of impacts on the moons. Yes, the majority hit Saturn, but that still leaves a lot to hit Titan. Look at the other heavily cratered moons of Saturn like Dione and Mimas.

    The jury is still obviously out on the degree of activity on Titan's surface. There are some hints of linear markings visible in the latest data that some of the science team are tentatively labeling as possible evidence of tectonics.

  • by Abcd1234 ( 188840 ) on Friday October 29, 2004 @11:55AM (#10663589) Homepage
    All planets (and moons) have magnetic fields.

    Actually, that's not true at all. Among the objects that don't generate a real, structured magnetic field, we have Venus [campusprogram.com], The Moon [ucsb.edu], Io [sciencedaily.com], Europa [google.ca], and Mars [nasa.gov]. Of course, *why* some planets have fields and some don't is still up in the air (rotation of the Earth's core generates our magnetic field, or so it is assumed, and yet Mercury, which almost certainly has a solid core, possesses a planetary magnetosphere).
  • by Audacious ( 611811 ) on Friday October 29, 2004 @02:34PM (#10665740) Homepage
    This is true - but - do these other moons have an atmosphere which is 10 times the density of earths? [nasa.gov] The atmosphere again would help to eliminate asteroids hitting the surface unlike other moons with not atmosphere or very little atmosphere. Further, the atmosphere is filled with (according to the article) particles similar to those found in cigarette smoke. (Not to be confused with the particles ACTUALLY being the same as cigarette smoke.) If Titan has atmosphere, then that means that it also probably has air currents. Therefore, think of it like this:

    In the desert, when a sandstorm comes along it can kill and both humans and animals hide from it. This is not only because the storm makes it hard to breath, but because of the sand blast effect. The flesh can be literally stripped from the bones by the force of the sand hitting you.

    Again, it may take millions of years, but if the atmosphere is doing this it will slowly but surely reduce mountains to hills and fill valleys. This is also true of any impact craters which were formed. The real question becomes - when was the last time something actually slammed into Titan's surface? Not that we watch it day and night 24/7/365 - but I suspect it is about as long ago as when our planet was last smacked into by a fairly large asteroid. Which, if I recall correctly, was a few million years ago. Without a lot of geologic upheavel it is quite possible that everything has just been worn down. :-)

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