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Biotech Robotics Technology

Ray Kurzweil On IT And The Future of Technology 450

Roland Piquepaille writes "In this interview with CIO Magazine, Ray Kurzweil says that one day, software and computers will reside inside us. He adds that by 2020, "we will be placing millions or billions of nanobots -- blood cell-size devices -- inside our bloodstream to travel into our brains and interact with our neurons." He also says that if we're not enhanced by machines, they will surpass us. But he doesn't think it will happen. According to him, machines and humans will merge. In the mean time, he's pursuing his anti-aging quest and takes about 250 supplements to his diet every day! With this regime, he says his biological age is 40 while he's 56 years old. By 2030, there will be very little difference between 30-year-old and 120-year-old people, says Kurzweil. He's certainly a bright person, but I'm not sure that I agree with someone taking daily such an amount of pills. What do you think? This summary contains some selected -- and biased -- excerpts to help you forge your opinion."
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Ray Kurzweil On IT And The Future of Technology

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  • Resistance is futile (Score:4, Interesting)

    by yomommaDOTorg ( 821912 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:05PM (#10550970) Homepage
    You will be assimilated. Seriously, though... It it really such a bad thing? A couple of nanobots could cure a lot of diseases. Then again, we risk the possibility that there will be haves and have nots. Perhaps the poor will get nanobot version 1.0, and the rich get nanobot version XP. I certainly don't want to be the guy running nanobots that crash or get h4x0red. Then again, even without bots, we have similar problems. Clean water, clean air... No matter what happens the little guy gets screwed, so we might as well sign up for this too. It sounds cool anyway.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:07PM (#10550987)
    Ok, it's pretty much accepted that Roland is paying off Slashdot to get hits to his weblog or has some kind of deal with them.

    Can you at least add him the the author list so we could at least filter him out?

    This guy is using slashdot as his own advert. How come nobody running this site is noticing or addressing it?

  • by TheWanderingHermit ( 513872 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:23PM (#10551096)
    I don't bother with most supplements. I take a few vitamins (like vitamin C), but I stopped taking ALL medication about 3-4 years ago, and stopped all caffiene a year after that.

    I've found that I no longer get sick and am in much better health overall than I was before. My guess is because I let my body do what it should, and not get used to artificial aids that are often not as good as what the body can do anyway. I'm 42, and am often told I look 30. When I have my backpack on my shoulder, as I do frequently, I am still mistaken for a student at one of the local universities. I've had gray hairs -- they show up during stress, then fade a few months after the stressful events. My barber has noticed this, too.

    I'm not saying I've found a fountain of youth, but I have noticed dropping out of the 9 to 5 world, running my own business on my own terms, and not letting meds fix everything in my body seems to have made a HUGE difference in how I feel, how much energy I have, and (according to others) in how I don't look anywhere near my age.
  • Re:2030? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Fallen Andy ( 795676 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:26PM (#10551122)
    You really think they want *anti* aging? Oh boy, just imagine nanites aging you because you don't support the prevailing political view. Live fast and die young baby....

    Yuck.

    I want some anti anti nano machines I can buy from the local kiosk...

    This gets really weird if you think about it.
    Anything we thought was speculative goes out the window really fast. (and I've been watching the
    sci fi perspective for almost 30 years).
  • by harkabeeparolyn ( 711320 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:34PM (#10551173)
    What's wrong with existing as a human? Why do we have to constantly "improve" upon our existence?

    I don't know where you live but in the country I live in everyone could use another 20 IQ points and I mean right fucking today. George W. Bush has the authority to start a nuclear war and he is about to be elected to a second term.

  • by MSTCrow5429 ( 642744 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:38PM (#10551205)
    I'm curious to know what each 250 supplement is, and in what dosage, as well as what his "certain diet" consists of. I've never found his research to be more than slightly off, so more data on this would be helpful. As for those who consider this guy to be some sort of nutcase, yes, I can see how one interview can give that impression. However, I would stress the need do more research and investigation before drawing a conclusion from a single datapoint, which is never good science.
  • by incog8723 ( 579923 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:41PM (#10551221)
    Haha... I think everyone misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I led off my comment with "I have no problem with this"...

    To be more specific, I think that everyone should just be grateful that they have a life. "Improving on it" often has devastating results. I'm happy living on a farm, or in a hole. That's just me, and I'm not criticizing anyone for wanting more from their pathetic existence, but it's just playing with fire. No matter what you do, you're still going to die, and the point is to enjoy the time you have.
  • by AnotherBlackHat ( 265897 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:50PM (#10551285) Homepage

    Every sci-fi dystopian movie I've ever seen is coming true.


    "I wasn't trying to predict the future, I was trying to prevent it." - Ray Bradbury.
  • by asreal ( 177335 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @02:52PM (#10551297)
    We'll be waiting a lot longer than 20 years for nanobots that we have to worry about crashing or being hacked, at least on a widespread basis. When you think of nanobots in the short term, you'd be better off thinking of protiens than little submarine robots. They will be dumb machines that will handle one or two tasks - closing certain receptors, opening others, or just bonding to them and waiting for outside activation by light or radiation. They certainly won't be able to be reprogrammed or crash because of software bugs. The first ones won't be there to cure diseases, either. They'll be diagnostic tools, help with drug delivery, or perhaps treat symptoms of said diseases by halting or taking over various activities encouraged or disabled by the disease.

    Personally, I think Kurzweil's 20 year estimates are overly optimistic, although the general principles of what he talks about do hold up...
  • by jsebrech ( 525647 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @03:02PM (#10551385)
    If we currently don't even cough up enough welfare to help the poor afford basic things like food and heat, what on God's fucking greeen Earth makes you think that we will EVER be giving them ANY version of nanobots?

    Because nanotech and fusion power combined will make production of anything dirtcheap. You'll license designs covered by IP rights for your nanofactory, which will build the thing out of basic atoms. There will be free designs, government-made and/or open source. The poor will have access to nearly free production of low-quality goods, and the rich will be able to afford the luxuries of IP-protected designs.

    Ofcourse, that presupposes we manage to create viable nanotech and fusion power without destroying humanity in the process, which would be a mean feat indeed.

    But it won't matter even if we can create these things dirtcheap. The real problem humanity has with respect to providing basic human rights is that we have no control over our population size. If we provide more food and medicine through technological advances, the global population will just grow to absorb the increase in resources, without actually increasing quality of life. The only way to increase quality of life for all of humanity is by instituting strict birth control policies so we do what nature used to do for us: limit population size so it matches available resources.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 17, 2004 @03:04PM (#10551411)
    I'd go with the standard "no silver bullet" theorem; i.e. there is no particular secret to long life. I also know people who have lived long, but miserable lives - my anecdotal evidence counters your anecdotal evidence...

    BTW: you have the wrong idea about Kurzweil, he most certainly isn't any kind of pill-pusher, he's more of the type of hyper-optimistic person who believes technology will solve all of our problems and transform humanity into something entirely different. He most certainly isn't a health fanatic; more likely he might even encourage someone other than himself (he considers himself an experiment) to go ahead and damage their health, because in the near future we'll be able to fix whatever damage they do to themselves.

    In other words, he's crazy, but not in the way you think.
  • by tchdab1 ( 164848 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @03:16PM (#10551495) Homepage
    Kind of puts a new spin on the Anti-virus program.
  • by uptownguy ( 215934 ) <UptownGuyEmail@gmail.com> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @03:24PM (#10551535)
    I have to agree -- this idea that blindly popping a "healthy" pill is automatically good for you can be quite flawed. Vitamins included...

    A few years ago, a large scale study was done on smokers taking vitamin suppliments and, contrary to what the researchers expected to find, certain components in the multivitamin actually proved to be quite harmful.

    A Finnish study of 29,000 male smokers, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, showed that participants were 18% more likely to develop lung cancer if they were given beta-carotene.
    (See linked article here) [bbc.co.uk]

    Now, in case you want to post an insightful reply for a quick infusion of karma, you could start with the obvious fact that smoking isn't the smartest thing to do in the first place...
  • by Duncan3 ( 10537 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @03:25PM (#10551538) Homepage
    Lets face it, life is really only a "good time" until you graduate college and gave to get a day job that sucks the life out of you just like everyone else. After that you're just a working stiff mindlessly going about your day exhausted, stressed, and boring.

    We should be focused on extending the fun years before the hell begins. I sure don't want more years as a 60 yr old, I want more as a 20 yr old.
  • Crazy geniuses (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Infonaut ( 96956 ) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @03:45PM (#10551677) Homepage Journal
    are there any studies out there showing that historical figures have a higher instance of mental instability than the general population?

    I remembered reading something about this, so I Googled it. There was a Harvard/U Toronto study [sciencedaily.com] about the linkage between creativity and "latent inhibition". Basically the conclusion is that highly creative people with high IQs don't filter incoming information in the same fashion that the rest of us do.

    This is just one study, of course. But it is interesting. One thing I've noticed about the mentally instable people I've met (not that my sample is large), is that they do tend to exhibit more outward manifestations of creativity. Perhaps it's because they are less bound by the need to categorize the world in which they live. We certainly do have a lot to learn about how the mind works.

  • from my blog (Score:5, Interesting)

    by feelyoda ( 622366 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @04:15PM (#10551808) Homepage
    Machine Dreams [blogspot.com]:: Ray Kurzweil spoke at RI25. Well, when I say "at", I mean that he was projected onto a transparent screen, in what was perhaps the highest quality tele-presence I've seen.

    But still, he lacked situational awareness, and it was awkward at times. I wanted to ask questions, but there wasn't an option.

    The interview linked above is a lot like his talk. He talked about the numerous exponential growths in recent technology, and not just Moore's Law.

    He figures that he should try to be healthy until 2020, then a biomedical revolution will keep him healthy for another 20 years, and then a nano-technology revolution will kick in to keep him alive forever.

    By "alive", he means that his intelligence propagates in the cold, soul-less heart of a machine. But considering that I agree with him that there is no ghost in the shell, this soulless form doesn't seem that bad. At least you're still sentient!

    I agree with the principle, that there is nothing to stop this, that all technology is pushing us in this direction, and that it would prove to be a very positive experience. I do not necessarily agree about the time frame. I can't really trust the curves that he fits with so much confidence. Then again, I'm 32 years younger than him, so if he is off by 32 years, I guess I shouldn't complain :)

    Last night at a party, drunk enough to make the discussion interesting, some folks objected to the extrapolation of the increasing rate of expansion of scientific knowledge. What guarantee is there, after all, to find all the secrets in that time? I would say first that the rate of growth in the number of researchers alone could do it. Also, increases in productivity, have always been accompanied with "this pace can't continue" claims, which have always been wrong.

    Also brought up was the notion that life is defined by death. That is a very defeatist thought, which I will fight, err, to my grave. In addition, some thought they would get bored if they lived forever. I would say that I could never complain about there being "more books than i could ever read", which is a great thing. Also, I've always wanted to get really good at GO.

    Finally, the notion of replication of machine intelligence was introduced. Someone claimed that I shouldn't discount the important sociological and physical implications of being born from a human whom. I agreed, only to realize that the first few moments of any existence will have a huge implication on the formation of the individual intelligence. So if I copy myself, I'll have to think of a few appropriate words to introduce the other me into this world. So far, all I can come up with is "hi".
  • by slobber ( 685169 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @04:43PM (#10551954)
    Yes, it is true that great statements require great proof. If I claim that earth is flat than I'd have to produce heaps of proof before anyone would listen. However, Kurzweil is futurologist and you can't prove anything about future because it hasn't happened yet. All you can do is look at the past and extrapolate while taking potential setbacks into account.

    Kurzweil says that people tend to overestimate the impact of technology in short run and underestimate it in long run. Perhaps he is guilty of this himself. His mistake is tieing more or less specific timeframe to his predictions. Instead he should be using terms like near, medium, and long term future. Specifying dates erodes his credibility and makes him look silly - no one can predict when certain breakthrough will be achieved (unless it is just a matter of deterministic process like in genome project).

    You are saying that Kurzweil's predictions are wrong because of "simple facts like Intel scrapping 4gHz chips and any number of other signs that Moore's Law ... is being scrapped as we speak." In fact I'd say that your prediction about death of Moore's law sounds silly to me. It is like saying that lamp based computers aren't good enough to do any decent ray tracing, thus ray tracing is not feasible. Well, current silicon technology is a very recent development and looks rather pale in complexity when compared to human brain. There is no doubt in my mind that this technological hiccup will be resolved either by improving existing silicon technology in some new and innovative way or, if we hit a "silicon dead end", by something completely new.

    You state that current computers don't seem to be "intelligent". Does mosquito seem intelligent to you? It seems like a fairly simple automaton to me. Well, modern garden variety computers possess a tiny fraction of mosquito's "computational power", so you can't expect them to act "intelligently", can you?

    So Ray's point is that as computational power increases, machines will start acting in more and more "intelligent" ways. Of course, computational power alone doesn't produce intelligence but it will if combined with studying brain structure and mimicking it (or parts of it for starters) in machines. And I don't necessarily mean silicone machines.

    Another fundamental point Kurzweil makes is that man and machine will merge at some point. Again, the timeframe he gives for when it will happen is
    questionable. However, I have little doubt that new ways for interfacing man and machine will be developed. I mean, keyboard and mouse are getting rather dated. As that interface becomes tighter and tighter, man and machine will become completely entangled. And it doesn't have to be anything Borg-like, meaning that it should still allow humans to stay humans. I effect, humans enhance their own wetware with technology thus substituting technological progress for evolution. I don't think many will complain that evolution will destroy human species, so think of it as "expedited evolution". That also makes perfect sense to me - natural evolution evolved humans to live in caves and feed by hunting and gathering. This is just taking evolution one step further - we've been doing it for centuries; stopping at an arbitrary point is not possible, it is like trying to turn time back.
  • by danila ( 69889 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @05:04PM (#10552060) Homepage
    No, it's just that some people (including Ray) see things. They see obvious patterns that are somehow escaping your attention. When Ray reads today's news, he reads about Mitsubishi planning a 400$ wearable display in early 2005. He reads about DOE planning a 1Kpixel artificial retina by 2007. He thinks about things he already knew, remembers what was done during the last two decades, connects the dots and realises that in 2014 we might very well have artificial vision widespread among healthy people. This isn't magic, it's just having very wide interests (what he mentions in this interview) and being at least moderately intelligent to add 2 plus 2.

    It is well-known (I read research dating to 1970s-1980s) that people who are narrow specialists can generally foresee about 7 years of progress in their fields. People who are not specialists in a certain field can do only a few years estimates. Most people are blind - they read the same news, see the same technologies being turned into products, but they can't see the obvious future trends. Some people, like Kurzweil (and many others) can.
  • by danila ( 69889 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @05:09PM (#10552087) Homepage
    First, I just want to point out that Intel's announcement is even less relevant than you admit. It's a PR blunder on their part to let people think that silicon is dead. In truth, Intel will just accelerate their work on more complex processors running at the same frequency. Multi-core processors and then truly parallel processors. Yes, this is difficult, but so was upping the frequency. There is no reason to believe that Intel Pentium 6000 will not be released in early 2005. Yes, it will run at 3GHz, but it will be twice as fast as a Pentium IV 3GHz, because it will do much more per cycle.

    Second, I want to note that to criticise Ray for timeframes one needs to have the same or better understanding of current progress, which I seriously doubt you do. He spends most of the time keeping track of what is being done and what is being planned. He knows much better when we can expect new advances and he knows much better how will they play together to create synergetic technologies like medical nanobots.
  • by DrFalkyn ( 102068 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @05:16PM (#10552114)
    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that all this talk about nanotechnology, cold fusion, AI, life extension, etc. is like Alchemy was to the middle ages. If you are not familiar with the history the study of alchemy was the attempt to 'transmute' various metals into gold. It failed of course, but their attempts did lead to the isolation of a couple elements and a few experimental methods such as distillation, which led to the development of modern chemistry.

    Perhaps nanotech, fusion, and AI research will lead to science and technological developments that we haven't even envisioned, much as alchemy did.

    I don't have much respect for 'futurists' like Kurzweill who aren't real scientists and don't give good reasons why their technologies are feasible. Biology is a complex science and is nowhere near fully understood. The higher functions of the brain such as memory, for instance, have not been able to be reduced to chemical and electrical interactions. Perhaps they will in 100+ years, but I don't see it happening within my lifetime.
  • by *Pres* ( 114530 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @05:49PM (#10552271) Journal
    This is interesting.

    How much hours of sleep do you get each night?

    Do you always go to bed around the same time?

    I'm suspecting that these things may also be important to avoid premature aging.

  • by LnxAddct ( 679316 ) <sgk25@drexel.edu> on Sunday October 17, 2004 @06:11PM (#10552360)
    This is why the missions to mars are so important, if we start living forever we are going to need to expand. Of course this would be following the trend of our past history, we start in a small location (often thought to be africa) and slowly move outward, adapting to the environment or changing the environment to adapt to us (most often a little of both), now we've almost filled the earth and we are figuring out how to adapt to our next frontier. Once we conquer the local planets and are able to successfully live outside of earth's atmosphere, we will quickly take over the solar system (as much of it as we can) and then probably the whole galaxy and so on. This is just how we work, its what we are designed to do. Technology and tools are just a part of evolution, the physical body only evolves so much and so fast, our minds are outpacing our bodies, so we are using our minds to catch up and imporve what we see fit. Nanotech, space exploration, and anti-aging technologies are probably the most important things being researched right now and are most likely going to all be successful simply because it fits into the continuation of our species as it has always existed.
    Regards,
    Steve
  • by doc modulo ( 568776 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @06:34PM (#10552457)
    The best way to stay younger than you are is to take in less calories! this has been shown to be true in all mammals, including humans.

    As long as you get all necessary nutrients, decreasing caloric intake is the fountain of youth. You might not be able to run a marathon but you'll understand that yourself when you hit that wall.

    I saw this fact in a documentary with Alan Alda as the presenter. All aging is because of free radicals permanently destroying cell parts, free radicals are produced during metabolism, eating. The science looked good.

    They tested various methods of longevity including inti-oxidants. The mice in the anti-oxidant cages looked lethargic and weak, normal for their age. The mice in the low caloric intake cages looked hyper and youthful, unlike their age.

    Eat almost nothing and you'll live like a young'un for most of your life. Think of it like a machine, if you burn more fuel through it, it wears out sooner.
  • Re:the nut (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 3Bees ( 568320 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @08:38PM (#10553073)

    You can also go straight to the source of above 100,000 and 10 year info: chech out Herbert A. Simon's Sciences of the Artificial.

    I would put up a link to Amazon but I'm very unhappy with them right now.

  • bs detector (Score:3, Interesting)

    by epine ( 68316 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @09:15PM (#10553251)

    You certainly are right about the instantaneous BS detector. You set mine off several times with your other comments.

    You haven't even managed to keep your own arguments on the same page. At one point you cite the memorization of a phone book as evidence about the chunk-scale of human intellect, apparently forgetting that computers already exceed this extreme data point on human performance by a rough factor of a billion. Phone numbers are in no way the "chunks" of human processing that make human processing interesting.

    The failure of computer hardware to perform "random access" information assessment is not a property of digital hardware, Wogger Penrose notwithstanding. It's a property of a class of algorithms appropriate to a scale of computation which we are rapidly exceeding.

    We already have classes of algorithms which perform exceptionally well at random access classification: neural networks and statistical models encoded using hashing techniques. What seems to be apparent is that the human brain encodes information at a higher level of dimensionality than our toy neural networks.

    I regard the Penrose algorithm as entirely circular. I'm altogether unimpressed with the creativity of the human brain. Open your eyes. Every day I witness hundreds of computational tasks orchestrated by the human brain that humans do badly or barely at all.

    For example, the driver who makes three dangerous S-style lane changes from behind to pass you and gain 50 yards of progress before ass kissing the next obstruction and then coming to a grinding halt at the next red light, which you could see was red half a block back. Meanwhile, having coasted down to 10mph and arrives by good planning at the intersection just as the light changes green, the "laggard" car comes out the other side 20 yards ahead at half the gas consumption, and zero wear-and-tear on his break linings.

    Then there are the large number of cases concerning how rarely most people even recognize the incompetence of human intellect all around them.

    Of course, if you conceive of yourself as off-the-scale brilliant at the pinnacle of human intellectual achievement (creativity is usually trotted out) as Wogger does, then of course you need quantum mechanics to explain this.

    If Wogger really were that bright, he might have noticed the circularity of his own argument. We need quantum mechanics to achieve this level of competence? I think not.

  • by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @09:46PM (#10553397)
    Kurzweil is looking to life extension of centuries and thousands of years
    Immortality is overrated. Imagine a two hundred year old Stalin still in power. I think that was one of the main points of the tail end of the "Dune" series - and George Turner had a few things to say about it, paticularly in the book he was writing when he died (summary: two hundred year old idle rich, no experience in any form of labour, suddenly needs to get a job).

    Fitness is relative. Some of the fitter people I know are over seventy - there's a sport that involves navigating between different points on foot for twenty-four hours and those in the super-veteran catagory regularly beat most of other teams. You can't gauge apparent age.

  • by TheWanderingHermit ( 513872 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:35PM (#10553600)
    I'd have to agree with you 100%. I had spent a long time in high stress jobs (I was a teacher, but working in residential treatment programs, which included long hours and a LOT of stress). I quit and started looking for what I wanted to do. I had some crappy jobs with bosses who were in serious need of therapy (and a few good jobs/bosses). I was in one job that was pretty good, but I was learning to hate it. I got along well with the boss (only boss I've ever said "F*ck you" to his face -- both of us would blow off steam when needed) said he had to let me go because my work was getting too bad to allow. I agreed, told him I was within a few weeks of quitting, so he helped me get my business up and running.

    Basically I learned I am not one who works well for others and that I HAVE to do things my way. (You can psychoanalyze that however you want!) I am a writer, first and foremost (I came VERY close to selling to Star Trek: TNG a few times!), and I realized I had to start creating the life I wanted and that worked for me if I ever wanted any happiness. I realized if I didn't, I'd be angry at everything and everyone, and living on Pepto.

    I know there will be a time when I use medications again, but at this point I don't need them. Sometimes I get headaches from lack of sleep, and meds have NEVER helped me with that (actually, meds never were a help to me with headaches and other symptoms like colds). I've learned how to "release" (I can't think of any other word for it) headaches through meditation, or by figuring out what is causing me the headache (as in where is the stress coming from), and being able to deal with it.

    I've seen times (like this month), when my entire family comes down with a stomach flu and is sick for several days. I don't know if it effects me, but during that time, I did have two days I was exhausted and had to take long afternoon naps. I don't know if that was how my body dealt with the infection, or if it was from something else.

    If/When I need it, I'll use meds, but for now there's been no need. You are right about letting the pendulum stop in the middle. It just seems like it hasn't reached the end of the arc and isn't ready to swing back yet.

    Oh, and I never used meds as a cructh. I used them when needed, and may have taken them at times in anticipation of how bad I expected a backache or something to get, but I was basically to damn cheap to spend much on meds unless I needed them.
  • Re:the nut (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wealthychef ( 584778 ) on Sunday October 17, 2004 @10:40PM (#10553618)
    You said: No computer can act as fast, sorting through a lifetime of experience in a fraction of a second and coming to a correct conclusion. I say: I don't think that's what human brains do. I think we "cheat" by developing feelings based on a few important data. Which data are important? You just develop a guessing instinct by trial and error. This is why life experience is invaluable and why ivory-tower academics are often so wildly wrong about obvious facts the rest of us understand implicitly. Some answers cannot be efficiently, algorithmically determined, that's the point of doing it. The computation involved in such an effort IMHO is not that amazing. What's amazing is that it works so well.

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