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Beer Found to be as Healthy as Wine 517

Matt Clare writes "Researchers at the University of Western Ontario (Canada) recently found that beer has the same positive qualities that wine has previously been found to have. The media release quotes professor John Trevithick, 'We were very surprised one drink of beer or stout contributed an equal amount of antioxidant benefit as wine, especially since red wine contains about 20 times the amount of polyphenols as beer.' For more info on how beer helps police harmful free radicals in blood, The London Free Press also has an article."
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Beer Found to be as Healthy as Wine

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  • Interesting.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mentalflossboy ( 811716 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @06:56PM (#10261001)
    And yet, you never hear about a "wine belly."
  • And yet... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by ajiva ( 156759 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @06:58PM (#10261022)
    Of course if you walk for 30 minutes every day, you'll get at least the same benefits if not more.
  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @06:59PM (#10261037)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by jatencio ( 536080 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:00PM (#10261049)
    When I see these studies, I also pause and wonder whether these scientist are trying to rationalize their beer/wine intake. If their wives or husbands get after them for wanting their "one" drink-a-day, they can point to their studies and say that science proves that this is good for me!
    Of course, drinking is moderation is good, too much of anything may be harmful. At least that has been my experience. All this article does in reinforce little but of knowledge.
    Jonathan
  • Re:Cheers! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by yintercept ( 517362 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:10PM (#10261128) Homepage Journal
    There is a God!

    And like God, beer can be healthy if you don't over do it.

  • by cephyn ( 461066 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:13PM (#10261157) Homepage
    the definition of a real beer isn't always about its alcohol content.

    now go out and get some chimay.
  • Re:Interesting.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by mentalflossboy ( 811716 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:14PM (#10261169)
    Good lord, man, what kind of beer are you drinking? A decent beer costs at least 7 or 8 bucks for a six pack. And you can get "decent" bottles of wine for that much at Trader Joes.

    I don't think cost is the issue in the beer/wine debate. It's a lifestyle difference. Wine drinkers will have a glass with dinner. Beer drinkers chug a six pack watching the game on Saturday.

  • by Marxist Hacker 42 ( 638312 ) * <seebert42@gmail.com> on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:16PM (#10261189) Homepage Journal
    Yes- if their funding had actually affected the outcome, there wouldn't have been word one about moderation in the article.
  • by limegreenman ( 719290 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:20PM (#10261216)
    The downer with any sort of epidemiological research like this is that it is hard to conclude much from the results of any one study. There are other studies that show the reverse of this finding (as well as studies with findings more consistent with this). It's only when looking at the aggregate of a whole bunch of research that you can really develop a clearer picture of what's actually happening.

    Just the other day I heard a cardiologist arguing that, at least in terms of positive cardiac health, the level where wine becomes more harmful than good was at least two-thirds of a bottle. That's my kind of moderation!!

  • Reality check (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drmike0099 ( 625308 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:21PM (#10261219)
    This article should be taken with a grain of salt. First of all, it's about as minor a medical discovery as you could find, in terms of potential impact of the study, where it was published, etc. (makes me wonder if the submitter was an author). There was a massive article on a similar topic in the New England Journal of Medicine last year, which actually studied actual humans and their actual outcomes (link here [nih.gov]) that didn't make it onto slashdot, and proved essentially the same thing. This is just talking about a lab proof about antioxidants, which are currently only one theory as to why alcohol is good for you. In other words, this is nice to know, but doesn't prove anything we didn't already know.
  • by LBArrettAnderson ( 655246 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:22PM (#10261236)
    no, you speak for the normal people. The intelligent people are asking "but what negative effects cancel out the positive ones?"

    It only mentions "positive" qualities.
  • by RealProgrammer ( 723725 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:25PM (#10261256) Homepage Journal
    The study showed that there is a nonlinear curve relating the amount of beer consumed and overall health. So there must be some factor other than the antioxidant effect at work.

    I'm not a physiologist, or even very smart, so the rest of this is pure guesswork:

    Probably small amounts of alcohol don't do bad things to you, and may even clean crud from the blood and arteries. Larger amounts make the kidneys work harder, and the excess is eventually converted to fat.

    Since most people (in the population that eats enough to read Slashdot) have enough fat already, these negative health effects of alcohol take over with increased consumption.

    The formula for health may be formed like:
    health = q + .5 q ^ 2
    where q is the daily consumption.

    It's obviously more complex than that, but as I said, I'm not a medic. The point to my guess is that the effect is not linear, but it's also not exponentially bad for you to drink more. 10 beers/day is not much worse for you than, say, 5. The curve levels off.
  • Erm, well... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by seanmckay ( 585643 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:28PM (#10261276)
    Well, yes, it is about the water. Water is amazingly important to different beer styles--it's why you get pale ale in London and brown in Newcastle. Mineral content difference. And no, darker doesn't necessarily mean better, and lighter colored is not equal to watered down. There's more grain in our amber ale than our porter, for example.

    Yes, I brew for a living.
  • by upsidedown_duck ( 788782 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:34PM (#10261318)

    Beer still has to battle against the more extreme low-carb advocates out there. One book, the popular South Beach Diet, goes to such an effort to discredit beer that it fallaciously compares consuming beer to consuming 100% pure maltose, simply because beer contains some maltose. The claims in the book made me think the author has some sort of agenda against beer or alcohol that go far beyond low-carb eating.
  • by Joe Tie. ( 567096 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:38PM (#10261354)
    I think jumping to any conclusions is a little premature at this point. While I've only been picking up tidbits of information in this area, I was under the impression that we're only just now getting to the point of understanding the actual mechanism of action behind the health benefits provided by red wine. This article seemed to imply that the study is working under the assumption that all or most of the benefit is being provided by it acting as an antioxident. While I'm certainly not going to dismiss any benefit from antioxidents, I do think they get a little more positive press than deserved based on most studies.
  • Re:Interesting.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by dlbowm ( 99810 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:39PM (#10261360)
    The problem with your argument is, the people who chug a six pack on the couch also don't buy $8 beer. They are quite possibly in the $4 camp.

    I think the people who buy $8 beer are likely to just drink a glass with dinner, as a replacement for wine. I believe a good beer can be just as good an accompaniment as wine. Just depends on the food, or your mood.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @07:52PM (#10261469)
    That's specious reasoning.

    Good news for your grandad, but you ought to repeat to yourself 100 times:

    Correlation does not imply Causality.

    I'm sure I read that beer causes cancer some time ago, and I read the same thing about coffee, wine, sea air and practically everything else that one can do, eat or breathe. This is why I have everything in moderation, because these experts with whom we have entrusted our lives seem totally unable to make their minds up.
  • by upsidedown_duck ( 788782 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @08:32PM (#10261746)

    I think it is more likely that these authors, like many advocates for various causes, have gained just enough knowledge to think they know what's right for everyone else while causing harm due to the remaining things they don't know. There are so many contradictions among fad diets with real health consequences, that I'm suprised the FDA/FTC/etc. haven't stepped in and declared them all as false advertising and bad advice based on faulty evidence. The profit motive isn't very encouraging, either.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @08:34PM (#10261763)
    The intelligent people are asking "but what negative effects cancel out the positive ones?"

    Really? I thought they already knew that one or two drinks a day is positive, but more are not. I don't see how this changes anything (except what to drink). I've never heard of a single study showing that two drinks a day is bad for anyone without specific contradictions (mostly liver related).

  • by drawfour ( 791912 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @08:35PM (#10261768)
    You do not speak for me. I cannot stand beer. Hard liquor, however, hell yeah! If they need any volunteers for a study of the antioxidant effectiveness of vodka, tequila, rum, whiskey, scotch, or any other hard alcohol, I'll volunteer.
  • Atkins as a 'hack' (Score:3, Insightful)

    by DarkMan ( 32280 ) on Wednesday September 15, 2004 @11:28PM (#10262689) Journal
    The Atkins diet, as descibed by the various books and articles from Atkins, is not that bad, in principle. Let me distil down the logic behind it:

    1) People eat too much.
    2) Eating less just makes you hungry. Ergo, it's difficult.
    3) If you look at the rates of ``fullness'' to calories, carbohydrates are way down the list.
    4) Thus, if you skip the carbs for a while, it lets the body get used to lower total volume of food, without feeling hungry.
    5) After the body is used to lower volumes of food, replace the highly energy dense foods with low energy density foods.
    6) Loose weight.

    Thus, the whole diet is just a hack, to get people to eat less without going through the tough phase of being hungry at the start.

    Note that step 4 is to ``skip'' the carbs. That is, eat the steak, and the veg, skip the fries. Not, eat a bigger steak in place of the fries. That defeats the point.

    When viewed in this manner, the Atkins approach has some merit.

    Of course, as we all know, when you take a hack, and run with it for a long period, it creates it's own problems. Hack's work for a short period, to get a job done, and then should get refactored into something more wholistic.

    What really gets my hackles up is when people order a meal, skip the starchy part, but order a double 'non starchy' part. Way to miss the point!
  • by ryanvm ( 247662 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @12:48AM (#10263241)
    The problem with studies like those is that no matter how hard they try, there is just no way to account for all the variables.

    People that drink a glass of red wine in the evening are likely to be more affluent than the average Coke and Cheetos connoisseur. They will therefore typically have access to much better healthcare and possibly take better care of themselves in general. So how do you figure out if it's the glass of wine in the evening, the yoga classes, the bottled waters, etc. The answer - you can't.

    I'll bet you'd also find that owning a luxury vehicle appears to result in a longer lifespan as well.
  • by Vintermann ( 400722 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @03:22AM (#10263763) Homepage
    "Actually, there are several "good" studies--published in reputable journals, with good methodology and solid statistical methods--that show an association between moderate alcohol consumption and appreciably reduced risk of a number of diseases. (Here, moderate is a range from approximately 1 to 3 drinks per day, depending on the study.) "

    What you don't hear very much is that industry-supported researchers have different definitions of alcohol than most of us. To them, wine and beer are "different alcohol types", instead of merely different types of alcohol-containing beverages. This gives them quite a lot more wiggle room to say that alcohol is healthy.

    If you by alcohol mean ethanol, then the original poster is right: It's probably the most dangerous substance allowed for consumption, and it's dangers have been seriously documented since the double-blind study was invented. All positive effects "alcohol consumption" may have come from the other parts of beer and wine.
  • by cozziewozzie ( 344246 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @07:02AM (#10264311)
    The positive effects attributed to wine are certainly not due to the alcohol content. Alcohol is a poison and the grandparent is correct in saying that. The positive effects you are seeing are due to different enzymes which come from grapes, not from ethanol.

    If you want to watch your health, instead of drinking a glass of wine, drink a litre of grape juice, or a kilo of grapes. Much more healthy than intoxicating your liver with ethanol.

    Come on, people here should be educated. Wine = alcohol. Wine = healthy, therefore alcohol = healthy? No.
  • by cozziewozzie ( 344246 ) on Thursday September 16, 2004 @07:08AM (#10264332)
    I'd go even further and say that there is no such thing as a healthy diet, only a healthy lifestyle (which includes a diet).

    Different people have completely different needs from their diets, depending on their lifestyles. There is nothing wrong with eating craploads of sugars and complex carbs if you are going to use them all in the course of the day.

    Many athletes have diets which would make an average person unhealthy. Your diet has to match your lifestyle.

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