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Science Software Linux

NASA To Get 10,240 Node Itanium 2 Linux Cluster 249

starwindsurfer writes "US space agency Nasa is to get a massive supercomputing boost to help get its shuttle missions back in action after the 2003 shuttle disaster. Project Columbia, a collaboration with two technology giants, will mean Nasa's computing power will be ramped up by 10 times to do complex simulations."
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NASA To Get 10,240 Node Itanium 2 Linux Cluster

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  • Dupe? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gothmolly ( 148874 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @12:39PM (#9921093)
    10240x more dupes? [slashdot.org]
  • Nice...but a dupe. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Agent Green ( 231202 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @12:41PM (#9921110)
    http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/28/ 1427228&tid=163&tid=139&tid=103 [slashdot.org]

    Do the editors work for the USPTO as well?
  • Spin (Score:1, Informative)

    by geneing ( 756949 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @12:55PM (#9921233)

    Aren't you tired of hearing how supercomputers "may help solve" all the problems in the world. If anything the impact of that supercomputer on shuttle will be nil. Developing massively parallel software takes years, by then this supercomputer will be obsolete.

    Another rant - why use Itanium processors? In order to get good performance from EPIC architechture you need specially optimized compilers, which won't be available for many years (by then this supercomputer will be obsolete). For now ibm's power architechture is a much better bang for the buck.

  • by orbit0r ( 731107 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @12:58PM (#9921271)
    And at one point in the article, it says "20 nodes" and then at another part it says "512 nodes." So like, what is it?

    Read the article:
    "It is using an off-the-shelf system and taken that and built a powerful system around 512-processors which are then hooked together to give considerable power."

    512 processors * 20 nodes = 10240
  • VT paid for the G5s (Score:3, Informative)

    by tentimestwenty ( 693290 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:01PM (#9921293)
    Apple didn't give VT any computers, they paid for them because they were the cheapest solution.
  • by Hamlin ( 543598 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:16PM (#9921423)
    if they'd gone with G5 Xserves they could have had 23,888 Dual 2GHz systems with 17.916 Petabytes of storage (assuming they just went stock on the high-end systems).

    Okay and one question about the article. Was he saying 1000 Gb of RAM per system or 1000GB per system?
  • Re:Tax payer. (Score:3, Informative)

    by I confirm I'm not a ( 720413 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:19PM (#9921459) Journal

    Science isn't sexy news in America.

    To be fair, science isn't exactly sexy news in the UK, either. The BBC covers stuff like this because (a) it's mandated to, and (b) there's no profit motive keeping the unsexy news off the (metaphorical) frontpages. Which is nice[1].

    [1] ...provided there remain alternative broadcasters to keep the Beeb on its toes.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:19PM (#9921461)
    Article not read by a technical person.

    The article is stating that the weather pattern studies would now be able to simulate activity periods of weeks or months rather than just days - NOT that the simulation runs themselves would take months rather than days!
  • Re:Itanium? (Score:5, Informative)

    by djohnsto ( 133220 ) <dan.e.johnston@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:20PM (#9921463) Homepage
    Think of it less of a win for Itanium and more of a win for SGI Altix (that happens to use Itanium). The SGI Altix machines have a single system image with 512 processors (there are 20 of these clustered together). As far as I know, this is actually the cheapest and highest performing system that can use 512 nodes in a single system image. Other choices (which I'm not even sure scale to 512 processors) include Sun (slow), Power (expensive), and MIPS (SGI predecessor to the Altix - slower). Also, they are working on methods to increase single system image size to 2048 nodes, I believe an industry first. Some workloads just like running in single system images much better than on clusters.

    As for Itanium vs. Opteron - the Itanium kicks the Opteron's ass in floating point. Since NASA is presumably going to be doing a lot of engineering simulations, good FP performance is highly desirable. Having 6 MB of cache per node probably helps the Itanium beat out the Opteron for large memory footprint workloads as well.

    Basically, until Cray releases Red Storm (not sure if they'll stay in business that long), an Opteron system doesn't exist that can match the performance of the SGI Altix.

    Finally, Itaniums are NOT "rediculously more" compared to the 8xx Opteron line (which is the Itanium's real competitor in this area).
  • by djward ( 251728 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:20PM (#9921464)
    Apple gave them no price break on the G5 towers. The systems were purchased at EDU pricing straight from the Apple Store, online.

    Apple DID cut them some slack on the additional RAM, charging industry-norm prices for the memory instead of their usual markup. They probably saved them some money on the sidegrade to Xserves, too, but I don't know the details.

    Anyway, when the initial cost assessment was done, the G5s were cheapest not because of a price break, but because they were... well... cheapest.
  • Re:Itanium? (Score:5, Informative)

    by harlows_monkeys ( 106428 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:24PM (#9921507) Homepage
    Can anyone point out any significant advantage of the Itanium that justifies the fact that it costs ridiculously more than its competition (i.e. AMD Opteron)?

    It does floating point a lot faster than Opteron.

  • Re:Spin (Score:3, Informative)

    by flaming-opus ( 8186 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:27PM (#9921552)
    Why use itaniums? Because itaniums are very fast at floating point math, and have 9MB of cache. It's not a perfect CPU, but it's not bad. Nasa is more than willing to optimize their code extensively. (Yes the optimizing compilers ARE available, just not in gcc. Both intel and hp have very good compilers for ia64) The IBM power architecture is also a very good architecture, but they are also VERY expensive.

    Mostly they use Itaniums because they are buying an SGI sollution. Nasa Ames has been a long time sgi customer. The cluster of itanium/linux altix machines is simply a kicker to their previous cluster of mips/irix origin 3000 systems, which replaced a cluster of o2000s, which replaced a cluster of power-challenge boxes. That's one of the reasons this purchase happen so quickly. All the physical/technical/knowledge/business infrastructure was in place.

    If you read the sgi press release, they are also cutting nasa a huge break on the price to win the contract. It's about $2million each for those altix boxes including fibre channel cards, switches, and storage. I can't believe SGI is making any money on the deal.
  • by halfelven ( 207781 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:55PM (#9921834)
    It makes you believe this supercomputer is made out of commodity components.
    That's blatantly false.

    The SGI systems are highly proprietary equipments that provide very large bandwidth between the nodes, extremely low latency and tight integration. They're not regular Beowulf clusters. They really are single systems with hundreds or thousands of CPUs, all of them running the same single instance of the OS (as opposed to typical clusters which run one OS instance per node).
    Because of the tight integration, the software does not have to obey the same constraints as when running on commodity clusters. Especially the requirement for total parallelization does not stand anymore.
    Therefore, problems which cannot be translated into 100% parallel algorithms, and therefore do not run efficiently on commodity clusters, are easily tackled on SGI supercomputers.
    That's why they can charge a high price on their systems - because they can solve problems that are not accessible to "normal" computers.

    That being said, the system at NASA is indeed a cluster, but it's a "small" cluster (a handful of nodes), each node being a supercomputer with hundreds of CPUs. It's a hybrid that provides the best of both worlds.
  • by halfelven ( 207781 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @01:58PM (#9921873)
    Because it's a 20-nodes cluster, each node being a supercomputer with 512 CPUs.

    The article was written, unfortunately, by a rather clueless journalist. Here's a link to the proper information:

    http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2004/ju ly/supercomputing_ctr.html [sgi.com]
  • Re:Here's hoping (Score:5, Informative)

    by halfelven ( 207781 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @02:00PM (#9921902)
    The "firmware" (the equivalent of BIOS) they have on the Altix is pretty damn smart, it's like an OS of it's own. It can do diagnostics, and inventory and a truckful of other things.
    Powering up a huge complex beast such as an Altix is no easy task. You need lots of "intelligence" at the hardware level to do that.
  • Re:Tax payer. (Score:2, Informative)

    by shiftless ( 410350 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @02:20PM (#9922093)
    Right, cause not only would it would make more sense to wait until 95% of America has it beat into their heads that Bush sucks before bringing Bin Laden out rather than bringing him out as soon as he's captured and using it to Bush's political advantage, but also there's no chance that the soldiers who supposedly captured him already would EVER talk or tell anyone about it.

    Did I miss anything? Oh, yeah:
  • Re:Spin (Score:3, Informative)

    by halfelven ( 207781 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @02:27PM (#9922145)
    How did this comment got moderated "informative"? There's definitely something wrong with the moderators today.

    SGI Altix uses the Intel compilers. They're pretty damn good on IA64. They're available today.

    Also, the massively parallel software is already up'n'running. NASA has been using for decades SGI supercomputers - traditionally it's been the MIPS/Irix architecture. A while ago, when SGI told NASA that they were going to migrate to Intel/Linux, NASA simply recompiled their software to Linux, which is not too difficult, since Irix is pretty much standard Unix (i did some porting from Linux to Irix and often the software simply compiles with no change).
    Also, Altix systems are essentially the same hardware architecture as MIPS-based SGI Origin with the exception of the CPU (and a different OS on top), so the differences are really not that big; it's just the transition from Irix to Linux.
  • by Naffer ( 720686 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @02:27PM (#9922155) Journal
    Because for what they're designed to do, the Itanium 2 is a damn fast processor that no opteron could keep up with. Its only at 32 bit processing that the Itaniums suck.
  • by xmas2003 ( 739875 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @02:48PM (#9922324) Homepage
    Yea, it was actually a "force" measurement (you did say Newtons and (I assume meant) pounds-force) - see attached snippet from one writeup [canoe.ca] ... plus the incorrect deviations from the flight path weren't noticed, which is argueably a distance measurement (there was a fair amount of miscommunication going on too, so lotta blame/mistakes on this one unfortunately) ... but I simplified to feet/meters in my attempt at humor. NASA has (obviously) done a GREAT job with the current Mars Landers, but boo-boo's happen.

    Engineers on the ground calculated the size of the rocket-firing using feet-per-second of thrust, a value based on the English measure of feet and inches.

    However, the spacecraft computer interpreted the instructions in Newtons-per-second, a metric measure of thrust. The difference is 1.3 metres a second.

  • by psbrogna ( 611644 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @03:35PM (#9922846)
    not quite true: The US Army bought 1,500 xServes recently for a G5 based supercomputer.

    ref: http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/06/22/0222210.s html?tid=137&tid=179&tid=185&tid=190
  • Re:pork (Score:3, Informative)

    by nboscia ( 91058 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @04:09PM (#9923160)
    NASA is not the sole user of the system. Anyone within the U.S. can use it. We support many university projects that require the use of supercomputers. This purchase is a benefit to the entire country, not just NASA.

    It is most unfortunate that people are not aware of all that NASA does for them. A majority of all research projects are in collaboration with industry vendors, universities, non-profit organizations, scientific corporations, and so on. There are few that are specific only to NASA. The range of customer database is wonderful and there is such variety in the areas of research (not just aeronautics and space technology, but biology, earth science, nanotechnology, optics, and so on). We all help each other to advance our knowledge, and computers like this make it a lot faster.
  • by nboscia ( 91058 ) on Monday August 09, 2004 @06:05PM (#9924444)
    NASA does not care about money. It's US taxpayers' money

    Thanks for the troll post.. you're a wonderful example of how uninformed citizens can be. FYI: The government defines NASA's budget each year, so there is a very high concern for money. It takes months upon months of civil servants fighting for funding out of that money pool. There are a lot of research programs, and not nearly enough money to fund them. Particularly, in the case of Columbia, there were massive layoffs to fund this. I'd like to see you make your statement to all those who now do not have jobs because of the lack of money (many were needed operational engineers, not just research staff). It's sad when people lose their jobs over something like this, but it did allow something good to happen. It's unfortunate that arrogant fools are blind to such politics.

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