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The Internet Science

Open Access To Scientific Literature: Can It Work? 333

evilquaker writes "Nature is running a free web focus on the issue of open access to scientific literature. The current model of scientific publishing dates back to the seventeenth century and -- like the music industry -- is in serious danger of becoming irrelevant because of the rise of the internet. The main issue up for discussion is whether the author-pays/access-is-free model will supplant the author-pays-less/readers-pay-too model. "
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Open Access To Scientific Literature: Can It Work?

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  • Ulib (Score:4, Informative)

    by KrisCowboy ( 776288 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:35PM (#9378347) Journal
    Carnegie-Mellon University is in a process of setting up a Universal Digital Library [ulib.org]. Got an impressive list of partners, including the richest pilgrimage in the world [tirumala.org](no, it's not the Vactican). The pilot project is to scan a million books first.
  • Open Online Journals (Score:5, Informative)

    by JamesD_UK ( 721413 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:36PM (#9378364) Homepage
    The Public Library of Science [plos.org] publishes the rather open, and rather lovely PLoS Biology Journal [plosbiology.org] completely openly online.
  • by cybergibbons ( 554352 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:38PM (#9378381) Homepage
    90% of my research is in EE or computer science. And it is a rare occasion when I can't find a paper, even ones from the mid eighties or earlier. One of the many citeseer sites is a great help e.g. this one [psu.edu].

    Sometimes papers are submitted to journals, and are hard to find elsewhere. Most of the time, an e-mail to the author will get a response, or it can be found using a search engine.

    It's been a long time since I have looked in a paper journal, yet I still know of universities who shun electronic access...

  • by nyc.!fnord ( 768633 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:40PM (#9378428)
    Access to articles is a great start, but for science to become "open" scientist must give up their zealous grip on the data itself. Anyone who's ever tried to develop a data exchange network knows that getting scientist to agree to share even the most non-proprietary data can require self-abasement, bribery and arm-bending in varying degrees. Long live XML!
  • Who's it for? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Pi_0's don't shower ( 741216 ) <ethan&isp,northwestern,edu> on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:42PM (#9378454) Homepage Journal
    I have a question for people -- how many rich scientists do you know? Although I've never published in Nature, publishing in the Astrophysical Journal (ApJ) costs ~$250 PER PAGE for the author... I'm sure Nature is at least as expensive.

    Furthermore, Nature is extremely stingy with their copyright laws -- i.e. they don't let you use graphs from their papers in other scientific journals, even if it is virtually essential to the science.

    I say, if you want to read it, then pay for it -- it's not fair to make people who aren't rich to begin with to foot the entire bill, especially when the information is clearly not "open to all" for use.
  • by loose electron ( 699583 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:43PM (#9378471) Homepage
    IMHO it is important that there be multiple venues for publication. Technical journals and magazines that specialize in an area seem to complement each other.

    Some of my stuff has published in IEEE journals, other items in Electronic Design and EDN magazines. The writing style is totally different, and how you present things is totally different.

    Also, what a journal rejects, frequently the magazine loves to have.

    In both cases, the concept of "peer review" is important. (Although not perfect...) Out of control internet publishing means that the readers have to seperate the good and the bad themselves, and some of the readers are not qualified to do so. Peer review prior to publication at least gives some validation of content.

  • Re:as a scientist... (Score:4, Informative)

    by beeplet ( 735701 ) <beeplet@gmail.com> on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:46PM (#9378518) Journal
    In the case of music, there is no absolute judge of what is good music or bad music - it's a personal choice. But there is an objective difference between good science and bad science. Unfortunately, most people either don't have the qualification or the time to carefully judge the merit of every scientific paper - instead we rely on the peer review system of respected journals to make that distinction for us. And people are willing to pay for that service.

    If you want to read all the crazy ideas people want to print, there's already a medium for that - it's called the internet. Lots of things get submitted to the LANL arXiv (http://xxx.lanl.gov/) that are "fringe" science.
  • by gumbi west ( 610122 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:46PM (#9378524) Journal
    You miss the point. People only pay attention to publications that have good referees (i.e. that carry to good stuff) and so the whole incentive argument doesn't work. Plus the reviewers normally don't work for the publisher.

    Secondly, the market has been taken over by one publisher and they are increasing all the prices so much that most universities and other similar organizations (national labs) are reducing their subscriptions!

  • by oneiros27 ( 46144 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:49PM (#9378565) Homepage
    The problems with giving talks at conferences, and just randomly posting stuff on the internet is that it hasn't had a level of peer review. Someone may have some great information out there, that everyone should read, and someone else might have a complete load of crap.

    The service that journals provide isn't so much the publishing, but the fact that skilled people in that profession have reviewed the papers, and have verified that it is accurate, and worthwhile [ie, not just some rewording of someone else's research].
  • This already exists! (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:51PM (#9378589)
    There already exists a system such that scientific papers are published without any cost either for
    the author or the reader. In fact almost all paper of theoretical physics are published this way and
    many other papers in maths, experimental physics, etc. All these archives are at:
    http://arxiv.org
    This net is supported by academic institutions over the world. Let the publisher quickly die. They
    serve no useful purpose.
  • Hehe (Score:4, Informative)

    by afay ( 301708 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:56PM (#9378665)

    I find this somewhat funny that the link would be to Nature, which is part of the academic publishing "evil empire". For a good opinion on what is wrong with academic publishing in its current form see this [guardian.co.uk]

    Also, if you're a scientist and would like to publish in an open format or you're interested in scientific papers, go to the Public Library of Science [publiclibr...cience.org]

  • by another blockhead ( 515009 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @12:56PM (#9378669)
    The parent comment was obviously written by someone who has never reviewed scientific papers!

    I frequently review papers in my field for a variety of IEEE and other journals. I do so because, as an author in those same journals, I appreciate how others who review my papers help to make them better. Peer review, believe it or not, is done by volunteers for mostly altruistic reasons. Journal editors are often also volunteers.

  • Re:Who's it for? (Score:4, Informative)

    by RayBender ( 525745 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @01:12PM (#9378860) Homepage
    Although I've never published in Nature, publishing in the Astrophysical Journal (ApJ) costs ~$250 PER PAGE for the author... I'm sure Nature is at least as expensive.

    Actually, publishing in Nature is free, unless you have big color prints.

  • by gringo_john ( 680811 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @01:25PM (#9379046) Journal
    They can preach all they want about open access but here's what our yearly subscription to Nature costs:

    in 2002: $1400 CAD
    in 2003: $1700 CAD (+21%)

    This is for an academic subscription in a Univeristy Library in Canada.

    Here's the irony. In scholarly publications, the contributions are mostly made from contributions from researchers who give the publisher the rights to publish their work. The publishers then turn around and sell this back to the universities for 100% profit. I remember back a few years ago, a subscription to Elsevier (the Microsoft of scholarly publishing) charged over $30K CAD for a subscription to Brain Research. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there were 4 issues per year. That works out to $7500 per issue. The publishing model is that if a reasearcher wants to be recognized, they NEED to publish, and the better recognized the journal, the better chances they'll have of being cited. The more often their article is cited, the better their chances of receiving more research/grants/money/etc...

  • by Paul Crowley ( 837 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @01:34PM (#9379184) Homepage Journal
    The release forms I signed explicitly give permission for the author to publish on their home page. Copyright was assigned to the IACR.
  • Archiving (Score:4, Informative)

    by Irvu ( 248207 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @01:39PM (#9379233)
    The one worry that I have (and this is not necessarily an argument against open access) is archiving. A key service that academic libraries provide is archiving of old journals. The web by contrast is not as ideal for such things as websites are always changing and individual servers are always going down. Academic libraries on the other hand are experts at the cataloguing, storage and retreival of old information.

    I can see how this worry is being lost especially as it is somewhat orthagonal to the issues of access, but not entirely. Archiving costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Most academic institutions fund this work but their archival models are built around books and journals. When a new journal comes in it is archived to shelves, microfiche, cd, etc. What are they to do with preprints on a website?

    Obviously of course this is something that tyhe libraries themselves would have to solve but it would be nice to hear more of it in the debate.

    One of the things that I worry about as the web grows is the loss of long-term institutional archiving. Such loss can often lead to unnecessarily repeated work or worse. I remember a professor of mine once told me about a paper that is regarded as "fundamental" in the Computer vision community. This paper is fairly old (circa 20+ years) and, unlike turing's work it is not assigned in basic cs courses. Once every few years he will attend a conference where some young student is presenting his/her latest discovery, a discovery that was already made 20+ years ago.

    One could argue that the student's did not make a sufficient literature search but my prof would disagree. According to him the paper is difficult to find because there is so much literature being generated in the Computer Vision community so quickly that the paper has been buried in a mass of archives.
  • by joib ( 70841 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @01:46PM (#9379308)
    I think that PLoS might very well be the model for how things are done in the future, now that the internet has essentially reduced the distribution costs to zero.

    Peer review is as good as any traditional journal. In theory at least; my field is physics so I haven't actually read any articles in the PLoS journals.

    With the author pays model, the articles can be distributed around the world, without restrictions. This is a big thing, for poor countries as well as people who have graduated but still wan't to keep up with their field. And we don't see the perversity were researchers need to assign the copyright to the journal and then pay to read their own words!

    As PLoS is a non-profit, the per-page costs are not that big as there is no need to fatten the wallets of any shareholders. Hell, per-page costs for PLoS are lower than for many traditional for-profit journals! Additionally, researchers from poor countries are allowed to publish for free. This combined with the fact that they can get the articles for free, is about the best we can do to help the third world to increase their knowledge base.

    I wish all the success to PLoS and hope that the same concept will be increasingly popular in other scientific fields as well.
  • Journals can be good (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @02:22PM (#9379749)
    I think journals are a good idea. I don't think just putting papers on your website is the best way to get dependable research. But I think you _should_ be able to put your paper on your site; ie that articles should be freely available. Sort of like code that is free, but the copyright notice has to be displayed. I read Donald Knuth's letter about this, and he mentioned some journals like the New York math journal that do this, and I think that's probably the best way to go. I don't think it's fair some publishers can charge libraries so much, but I think that keeping the ``journal format'' is a good idea.

    BTW, I'm only an undergrad math student and have never published, but I've used _a lot_ of journals for my research and study, and I like the format much more than going through websites or similar directories for information. Sometimes you can find good info, eg phd thesis, on the web, but it's just nicer to have a journal you can turn to and flip through.
  • Re:Who's it for? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Analogy Man ( 601298 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @03:14PM (#9380406)
    So you are paying for it to be reviewed.

    This is the critical element here, otherwise the good science will get muddled into the google soup along with the gibberish that some religious or political fanatics or degree for hire bozos pass off as science.

    Although one still needs to take anyone elses work critically, at least one can be reasonably assured that something in an establilshed journal is less likely to be hogwash, or at least it will have the equations internally self consistant and biblio's are for real.

    Just today there was a bit on public radio on how North Dakota came up with their own models for computing coal fired emissions. Scientists within the EPA came up with a number concerns with their methods (which were essentially derived to fit the regulations). ND meanwhile went to Washington and got the bosses approval bypassing a scientific review. This sort of crap could become the norm if the filters for publishing are removed.

  • by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [namtabmiaka]> on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @03:16PM (#9380432) Homepage Journal
    Books are mostly useless except as introductions to a topic and leads to
    papers/authors found in the bibliography (if a book doesn't give references,
    find a different book).


    I have to disagree here. While the original papers are always best, it's often hard to get ahold of them. Take raytracing as an example. The original paper on the subject is still considered the definitive source for information on the topic. But that paper is 20+ years old and is almost impossible to find. (I don't have easy access to a University Library.) However, I was able to read a short eBook (really course material) called "Practical Ray Tracing" by Geoff Wyvill, and create a ray tracer. References are listed at the end of the book if I wish to track down more info.

    My point is that books are a good way of condensing information about a sub-field. Once you understand the basics and acquire 10-20 years of catch up work, then all the modern papers on the topic will begin to make sense. Of course, it never hurts to keep feelers out for a chance to obtain the original materials. Sometimes I get lucky. :-)
  • by DarkMan ( 32280 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @06:27PM (#9382331) Journal
    ... if you are an expert in the field.

    That's really, really, crucial here. The people who gain from peer review are _not_ really the experts. Ok, there's a gain by a first winnowing, but that's not really that much, if you look at what does get published.

    For example, there is not a paper in my field (thin layer magnetism) where it matters one whit if it's been peer reviewed or not. Why? Because if it's a load of cobblers, I'll spot it. I don't need other peoples opinions.

    Now, outside my field, I'll accept that peer review has some merit to me. The most notable one for me is the mathematical proofs, to be checked by other mathematicians [0]. On the other hand, in the abscence of a formal peer review stage pre publication, any errors would result in a Comment publication in response. I accept that that's a time lag - but I don't think that that time lag would be any greater than the formal peer review stage as is.

    No, the people who gain from peer review are not the experts. They are the general public, and those learning, or branching out. A lack of a peer review step would make it more difficult for those people.

    You'll find that the drive to opening of papers is primarily driven by the experts. I think that replacing the peer review step with a structed system of comments, and keeping those comments accesable with the paper, would benefit.

    The counter point to this, is that by having greater access to papers, with comments, would give benefit to all, general public and experts alike. The end point would be a net gain for experts, and probably a gain for the general public - as more reading would be needed, but all that reading would be easily accessable.

    Let me close this by re-iterating that the experts don't need peer review - which is why arXive.org and pre-prints are the stock in trade of many an expert.

    [0] There are, of course, similar sections of related research for all fields.
  • by petersuber ( 117822 ) on Wednesday June 09, 2004 @09:59PM (#9383539) Homepage
    Here are some sites for further reading.

    Open Access News blog
    http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/fosblog.html [earlham.edu]

    SPARC Open Access Newsletter
    http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/newsletter/arch ive.htm [earlham.edu]

    Timeline of the open access movement
    http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/timeline.htm [earlham.edu]

    What you can do to promote open access
    http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/lists.htm#do [earlham.edu]

    Budapest Open Access Initiative
    http://www.soros.org/openaccess/ [soros.org]

    FAQ from the Budapest Open Access Initiative
    http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/boaifaq.htm [earlham.edu]

    Disclaimer: I'm associated with all of the sites above.
    Peter Suber

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