Catch up on stories from the past week (and beyond) at the Slashdot story archive

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Space Wireless Networking Science Hardware

Amateur Rocket Reaches Space 217

Posted by timothy from the fuzzy-barrier dept.
PatMouser writes "An amateur rocket carrying a ham radio avionics package reached the edge of space May 17. Launched from Nevada's Black Rock Desert, the 21-foot Civilian Space Xploration Team (CSXT) GoFast rocket quickly attained the 100 km altitude to make Amateur Radio and amateur rocketry history. Two earlier CSXT attempts to reach space--the last almost two years ago--were unsuccessful. A jubilant Avionics Team Leader Eric Knight, KB1EHE, called the successful launch 'a phenomenal experience.' The full ARRL article can be read here. There's nothing on CSXT's site yet..." (See this pre-launch story for more details.)
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Amateur Rocket Reaches Space More

Amateur Rocket Reaches Space

Comments Filter:

  • First step.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by kidgenius ( 704962 ) on Monday May 17, 2004 @11:51PM (#9180140)
    Alright....next step is to add a couple extra pounds of propellant, and 3 guys. j/k

  • Define Space (Score:3, Interesting)

    by NETHED ( 258016 ) on Monday May 17, 2004 @11:53PM (#9180145) Homepage
    Does this mean it is in orbit, or just went into space and fell back down.

    I was part of a Super-Loki rocket team in WI a few years back that went sub-orbital. (I was a camera systems specialist=ohhh, pretty pictures, look!!) It was an Amatur rocket, so does that count?

  • Go Minnesota! (Score:4, Informative)

    by ODD97 ( 645414 ) on Monday May 17, 2004 @11:59PM (#9180189) Homepage
    Apparently one of the main people working on the craft is from Minnesota, a talk radio station was interviewing him tonight. They have located the beacon on the craft, and are at the moment trying to get to it, but the weather is bad, and it's in a desert location. It's kind of a Wright brothers moment.

  • When does your crazy project stop being amateur? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by aardwolf204 ( 630780 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:01AM (#9180203)

    I dont get it. I mean, I understand the concept of "Amateur Radio", and "Amateur Rocketry" right, but theres got to be a point when your mad scientest project gets out of the garage and into, say, space, and all of the sudden like pair of twin torpedos slaming into the death star your Amateur project gets a slashdotting and its pro.

    Hell, I can go pro by buying an $8,000 digital SLR camera, why is it that shooting a home brew satelite into space is amateur? (j/k)

    Its not like some homies duct taped an 8-track to an upside down trash can and stuck some dinomite under it, right? Please, for the love of god, come up with a better classification than this!#!

    Hell, even in soviet russia amateur rockets launch you.
    Come on, you know you were thinking it too
    • It's professional when you get paid to do it.
    • amateur. n. "A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession."

      profession. n. "An occupation or career."

      (American Heritage Dictionary)

    • Re:When does your crazy project stop being amateur (Score:5, Funny)

      by aardwolf204 ( 630780 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:20AM (#9180313)

      I'm usually not one to reply to my own post but I've seen here way too many posts that basicly say "It is amateur because you are not being paid", while this rule does not explain this [google.com]anomaly.

      If I were to spend 10 years learning and praticing ballroom dancing would I not become a professional ballroom dancer?
      • Only if you get paid to do it. :)

        -Restil

      • Re:When does your crazy project stop being amateur (Score:5, Insightful)

        by zik ( 160926 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:40AM (#9180406) Homepage
        No matter how many years you spent doing ballroom dancing you'd never become a professional until you got paid. And even if you were terrible at it but got paid you'd still be a professional.

        But let's say you're a good dancer who isn't paid. People might say you were "very professional" in your attitude or presentation but in that case they're using an analogy - saying you're as good as a professional, not saying you're actually a professional.

        I think a lot of people are confused about this word. We use the term "amateurish" to talk about things which are crappy and I really think this helps to add to the confusion. For instance I write free software which by definition is an "amateur" activity since I don't get paid for it but I'd really like to think it's not "amateurish" and crappy!

        There are some other distinctions used these days too. I play in a band which you'd definitely describe as "amateur". But maybe someday we'll get booked at a venue and become "semi-pro", meaning we get paid to play - but not enough to give up our day jobs. Not quite "professional" but not "amateur" either.
        • Ballroom dancing, what a bizzare analogy to use on slashdot.

        • Sort of... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Burning1 ( 204959 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @04:17AM (#9181074) Homepage
          I'm affiraid that you're not entirely correct either... Generally, a person becomes a professional at an activity when they support their lifestyle through an activity. To continue the metaphore:
          • A beginning dancer is an amature.
          • A dancer with 10 years of experience is still an amature.
          • A dance performer with 10 years of experience who works in a coffee shop is a professional waitor or waitress (but still an amature dancer.)
          • A dance performer or instructor who pays their rent through performing or instructing is a professional dancer.
        • > No matter how many years you spent doing ballroom dancing you'd never become a
          > professional until you got paid. And even if you were terrible at it but got paid you'd still
          > be a professional.

          That is not entirely true. As a dancer you can simply declare yourself "pro" and start entering competitions for professionals.

          On the other hand in many countries amateurs teach and do demonstrations and get paid for all of these, though usually there are some limits. The distinction between amateur and p
      • Amateur doesn't mean you don't get paid to do it. It means you can't survive JUST doing it.

        1. Amateur radio may be sponcered but they guy/girl still has a day job.
        2. Amateur ballroom dancing may get paid to dance but can't survive just painting.
        3. Amateur painters can sell their work but if it doesn't bring in enough to live it's still just a hobbie.

        As you can see Amateur doesn't mean you don't get paid it just means you don't get paid ENOUGH to just do X without having another job.

        So answering the question when does it stop being amateur? When it pays enough money so they don't have to do anything else.
      • It's simpler than that. You are a professional when the activity in question is your profession [reference.com].

    • Classifications other than amateur:

      When you can do it reliably, it becomes "private space travel".

      When you do it for money, it becomes "commercial space travel".

    • Please, for the love of god, come up with a better classification than this!

      The difference is simple, and you see examples of it everywhere: The basic variation of anything is "amateur".

      Now if you take that, add a couple of small features targeted at business users, and then jack up the price by 70%, it becomes "professional".

    • Hell, I can go pro by buying an $8,000 digital SLR camera

      People go pro with thirty year old pentax 35mm SLRs, so long as they can produce quality pictures and sell them to people. Crap pictures that no-one will buy from an expensive camera just make someone an amateur with a good camera. By definition, you are a professional at whatever your profession is - whatever you make the money at. Many amateur athletes are a lot better at what they do than the professionals - they just don't make any money out of

      • Alright, try this one on for size. I'm currently involved in two separate and distinct business pursuits. Both make money, but neither alone pays the bills. In fact, both together don't pay the bills, but let's assume that sometime in the next month or so that status changes and both together pay the bills, but neither alone will pay the bills.

        Oh yeah, one's in the food business and the other is my website (and a few related materials on the website). They're not at all related to one another. (I'm al

  • I take it the rocket (Score:5, Funny)

    by tbjw ( 760188 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:03AM (#9180215)
    wants to retain its amateur status so it can compete in the olympics.

    I'm sure it can make its costs back in sponsorship though.

  • So ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by NightWulf ( 672561 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:03AM (#9180223)
    How long before someone creates the first amateur ICBM. Then moves on to become the world's first amateur nuclear power?

  • Recovery of the rocket (Score:5, Funny)

    by Woogiemonger ( 628172 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:11AM (#9180265)
    I really hope that when they reach the landing site they don't find any petunias or sperm whales.

  • K7R (Score:4, Funny)

    by 2br02b ( 448267 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:16AM (#9180292)
    An HF special event station,
    K7R (for "rocket") didn't get much airtime, Knight said, "because we've been really focused on the mission."

    Hmmm... the ham dialect of l33t Speak?

    • Re:K7R (Score:5, Interesting)

      by forkazoo ( 138186 ) <wrosecrans@gmCOLAail.com minus caffeine> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:40AM (#9180411) Homepage
      While both 1337 spe4k and ham are dialects of hackish, they are not directly decended from each other. l33t is, if anything, decended from ham, as ham predates l33t. Most hackish linguists feel that the gamerz weren't especially aware of ham when l33t was developed. The similarities arise from the similar circumstances of origion of the two dialects. Both are designed to be extremely terse, due to limited available "bandwidth." In the case of l33t, any time spent of the numpad detracts from game play, while with ham, you need to key out each letter with multiple strokes.

      • Re:K7R (Score:4, Insightful)

        by blincoln ( 592401 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @03:06AM (#9180892) Homepage Journal
        The similarities arise from the similar circumstances of origion of the two dialects. Both are designed to be extremely terse, due to limited available "bandwidth." In the case of l33t, any time spent of the numpad detracts from game play, while with ham, you need to key out each letter with multiple strokes.

        What?

        I've been watching "1337" evolve and devolve for over a decade. It may *now* involve a lot of numeric keypad usage, but I can't believe it started as a way to be efficient.

        Ten or twelve years ago there was hardly any number usage at all, just the dorky "i aM a HaXoR, aLL VoWeLZ R LoWeRCaSe" capitalization. I would see variations like using zeroes for o, fours for a, ones for l, threes for e, and sevens for t, but writing it "3Y3 4M 4 H4X0R, 4LL V0W3LZ R NuMB3RZ" actually takes more effort than spelling it normally.

        I see it as being a deliberate obfuscation, like slang or the illegible writing style that taggers use.
    • Ha ha. Yeah, I know that was meant to be fuhny, but here in the You Ess Ay you can apply to the FCC to get what's called a "1x1" call sign for special event stations (one letter before the number, one letter after). The call sign is issued for a finite amount of time and can be used by a different club/orgainzation in the future.
  • Anyone that could launch a radio into space could launch a re-entry vehicle full of bio-engineered, which could upset the entire eco-system. Those damn terrorists would love to get in on something like that. Imagine........just one rocket full of bio-engineered corn over the corn belt could bring the entire country to it's knees as every farmer in middle america got sued for copyright infringement by the patent holders. :-)

  • Article Text (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @12:50AM (#9180440)
    Rocket Carrying Ham Radio Payload Reaches Space!

    NEWINGTON, CT, May 17, 2004--An amateur rocket carrying a ham radio avionics package reached the edge of space May 17. Launched from Nevada's Black Rock Desert, the 21-foot Civilian Space Xploration Team (CSXT) GoFast rocket quickly attained the 100 km altitude to make Amateur Radio and amateur rocketry history. Two earlier CSXT attempts to reach space--the last almost two years ago--were unsuccessful. A jubilant Avionics Team Leader Eric Knight, KB1EHE, called the successful launch "a phenomenal experience."

    "It just roared off the pad and flew into space," said Knight, who lives in Unionville, Connecticut. "Everything went like clockwork this morning, and it was an awesome experience. We're all kind of on an adrenaline high right now."

    The GoFast vehicle--named for one of the project's commercial sponsors--lifted off from the desert floor at approximately 11:20 AM PDT. The CSXT team, plus observers from the Federal Aviation Administration, were up and at the launch site several hours beforehand, however, and Knight said the rocket crew--which includes several radio amateurs--did a "dress rehearsal" prior to the actual countdown and launch.

    Knight said several West Coast hams who learned about the rocket launch from ARRL news accounts showed up to assist in locating the vehicle, which was estimated to have returned to Earth some 26 to 30 miles downrange from the launch site. Knight said Monday evening that the rocket had not yet been recovered, but the ham radio telemetry package was continuing to transmit.

    "We have a telemetry beacon telling us where it is--that it's alive and waiting to be found," Knight said. The rocket transmitted telemetry on the 33-cm amateur band and color Amateur TV pictures on 2.4 GHz. An HF special event station, K7R (for "rocket") didn't get much airtime, Knight said, "because we've been really focused on the mission."

    "Everything came together very well," Knight said. His avionics crew includes eight Amateur Radio licensees, most of whom also were involved in the 2002 launch attempt. Former Hollywood stunt man--Ky Michaelson of Minnesota, directs the 18-person CSXT team.

  • Out of curiousity (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dtio ( 134278 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @01:12AM (#9180508)
    In theory, could a private individual put a satelite in orbit?

    Am I free to build, launch and use my own space gadgets?

    What does international law say about this?

    • Re:Out of curiousity (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Slim chance-- The problem is you have to equip your rocket with a guidence system. However most countries will not let you build rockets w/ guidence systems under the reasoning that these rockets could be turned into guided bombs. This said, certain educational/non profit orgs can file (at least in the US) for the privilidge to build guided rockets.
      • wrong wrong and sooooo wrong. You can build it. You must get clearance from the FAA to fly it. They must approve the design and launch facility as safe. If you're going to put something into orbit, there are other government orgs. you must also get approval from.

        If you can get all the paperwork approved, then, yes, you (a private individual) could launch a rocket.

    • Re:Out of curiousity (Score:5, Informative)

      by G-funk ( 22712 ) <josh@gfunk007.com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:10AM (#9180723) Homepage Journal
      If you launch them from a ship in international waters, sure. Otherwise you've got to deal with the government of whatever country from which you launch and their version of the FAA.
      • Just a matter of money. Pick the right country with cheaply bribe-able officials. Africa sounds good, the added advantage of some parts is their position suitably close to the equator.

      • Re:Out of curiousity (Score:4, Informative)

        by Teancum ( 67324 ) <`ten.orezten' `ta' `gninroh_trebor'> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @05:25AM (#9181271) Homepage Journal
        Even then, you would probabally need to get permission from the nation who is the official registrar of that ship you are floating in. Almost all ships in the ocean, and all commercial vessels, are registered to a specific country, mainly to deal with maritime law and other subtle legal issues such as what country a child belongs to when they are born aboard ship, if a crime happens what country has juristiction, and should that ship be allowed to trade in a given port or not.

        Ships registered to the U.S.A. are given protection of the U.S. Navy and Coast Guard, and an attack against an American flag ship is considered an act of war against the U.S.A., with all of the consequences that follow from that.

        There are nations that do a "flag of convience" like Liberia, who only charge a modest licensing fee and do practically no inspections. (An inspection consisiting of "Yeah, the ship is there" is probabally a little bit too much for Liberia) Of course, the Liberian Navy isn't exactly going to go out of their way to help you out either.

        The point here is that if you launch from a ship, even in international waters, you need to get permission from the government who you have the ship registered to. That is why I've suggested in the past that the Liberian Space Agency might end up with the largest fleet of space going craft, but even so you have to deal with at least some sort of government.

        Who knows, maybe this can be a source of revenue for Nauru [cia.gov] to suppliment their income from domain sales.

    • Re:Out of curiousity (Score:4, Insightful)

      by WegianWarrior ( 649800 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:15AM (#9180736) Journal

      AFAIK, there is no international treatys which restrics who that can fire lumps of metal into orbit - but there is a treaty [unvienna.org] describing what's not allowed. Only caveat there is that it's a "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States
      in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies", meaning it may or may not apply to you as a private person.


      The main trouble I see is that you need to travel thru someones airspace to get there - and to fly thru controlled airspace you need permission from the relevant autorites in your country. As others have noted in reference to the article, in the US you need a waver from the FAA. In other nations you need to apply to the local aviation autority to launch somethign that passes thru the regulated airspace, providing you can get permission at all.


      International law is not whats stopping you - it's the local laws that are the nail in your plan.

      • Not totally true.. If you shot downwards from a few miles off the artic right through the centre of the Alantic Ocean you could achieve orbit before crossing another country.

        Simon.

      • Re:Out of curiousity (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Depending on the country the permission to actually fly the thing may be the least of your worries.
        The environmental impact analysis of the rocket engines and fuel and the explosives regulations are far more likely to be restrictions.

        For example in the Netherlands rockets may only be fired by the military.
        Amateur rocketeers have to report to the military where arrangements are made for the rocket to be launched from a shooting range (normally used for artillery practice).
        The military will inspect the vehic

      • Re:Out of curiousity (Score:3, Informative)

        by BCW2 ( 168187 )
        Passing through a countries air space is not a problem. It's a matter of altitude, thats why NASA shoots over the Atlantic. By the time a vehicle crosses land, it's too high to do anything about.

        You can claim anything, what you can defend or enforce is what is paid attention too.

    • Re:Out of curiousity (Score:3, Informative)

      by cyclone96 ( 129449 )
      Sure, provided that you obtain the requisite license from the Department of Transportation if launching from US territory (or if you are an American operating in international territory). You can find some of the US code that governs this here [cornell.edu].

      Essentially you have to prove you won't kill anyone on the ground, damage property, or act in a manner that is detrimental to national security or foreign policy interests to get a license.

      Under international law, the United States government is ultimately responsib

  • UFO (Score:2, Funny)

    by hutkey ( 709330 )
    hey!
    did anybody "claimed", they definitely saw an UFO,
    in that area?
  • Launched from Nevada's Black Rock Desert...

    And then the FAA stepped in and had all the involved parties arrested for questioning and further investigation.

    • Re:Ooooooooh well... (Score:2, Informative)

      by Xenith ( 192027 )
      Except they had a valid launch license. :)

      Oh, and the fact that there were FAA personal *on site* monitoring the launch (and giving final approval).

  • What ARRL Means (Score:5, Informative)

    by serutan ( 259622 ) <snoopdoug@nOsPAM.geekazon.com> on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @02:48AM (#9180851) Homepage
    In case you are wondering, as I was, how you get the acronym "ARRL" out of "National Association for Amateur Radio" but don't want to search the site... one of their pages explains that it stands for American Radio Relay League, founded in 1914.
  • If they can put a ham radio into space, maybe someone will build an amateur Mars probe. We definely need someone to investigate this new face on Mars. [nasa.gov]

    Is Opportunty watching Late Night when NASA isn't watching?
  • Is this where job growth is heading? Private space charter and cargo organizations?

    Are there niches here for smart, innovative, hardworking software guys to learn to fill, without having to start over in college?

    It seems software is going the way of the dodo, until the U.S. decides to adapt itself to a global economy. Can the space race get the job market moving again in a way that biotech can't (meaning, not requiring another 6-8 years of college for entry-level positions.)

    Just an out of work hopeful

  • And in other news... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Spudley ( 171066 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @07:41AM (#9181649) Homepage Journal
    A guy who was clinging to the side of the rocket when it was launched has been awarded the X-Prize postumously.
  • This seems like a big, big event. WHY wasn't it picked up by, oh, the New York Times? The Los Angeles Times? The Times of London? The Washington Post?

    It seems that those presently in power (as a broad class of self-interested individuals, not some shadowy "conspiracy") have a vested interest in keeping the public convinced that only large corporate entities and governments can get any real work done. Perhaps that is why they don't want to broadcast the news that a group of amateur geeks launched a freaki
    • Its not a conspiracy, its stupidity. The general public doesn't have a friggin clue about how significant this or the Scaled Composites events are. When I was young and ignorant, I thought the round-the-world nonstop flight (i.e. Rutan's Voyager) would be huge news & possibly spark a new interest in aviation. But basically nothing happened. All the hoopla 6 months ago for the Wright 100th anniversary was largely unnoticed by the media. The SpaceShipOne launch last week & this amateur rocket are

  • What Really Happened (Score:5, Funny)

    by Walrus99 ( 543380 ) on Tuesday May 18, 2004 @09:17AM (#9182462)
    What really happened: The parachute opened early and it was caught by a gust of wind, the rocket ended up in a pine tree down the block and they had to throw sticks and a frisbee at it to get it back. A fin was damaged by the frisbee but can be repaired with some elmers glue. A frog has been captured to be the payload for the next flight.
  • Every time theres an amateur radio story posted to /., either about morse code or BPL, all these haters show up and start saying ham radio is dead and that its a waste to give all these airwaves to these "hams".

    Where are the haters in this thread? Oh OHHH its because we launched a ROCKET INTO SPACE. Has your hobby done that? HMM!? What about dozens of satellites [amsat.org], space station experiments [arrl.org] and space shuttle experiments [spacetoday.org]? What about being a vital part of our nation's emergency communications network [ares.org]?

    I didn't

Slashdot Top Deals

In computing, the mean time to failure keeps getting shorter.

Close