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Science Technology

Building A Modern Stonehenge In New Zealand 235

Posted by timothy from the where-else dept.
Flexagon writes "Wired News is reporting that a group of astronomy enthusiasts in New Zealand is building its own version of Stonehenge in a little more than a year. Why? "We came up with the idea of Stonehenge because it doesn't matter who you are -- everyone looks at the Pyramids and Stonehenge and structures like that (and asks) who built them, why did they build them?" says Richard Hall, president of the Phoenix Astronomical Society. Yet another reason to book a ticket!"
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Building A Modern Stonehenge In New Zealand More

Building A Modern Stonehenge In New Zealand

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  • Units of measurement (Score:5, Funny)

    by delstar dotstar ( 593915 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:26AM (#9049557)
    Before building it, remember that ' is feet and " is inches.
    • Otherwise it will be in danger of being crushed by dwarves. :)

      If you watch the DVD of Spinal Tap, I thoroughly recommend the commentary - one of the best ever.

      troc

  • Why they built them? (Score:5, Funny)

    by cioxx ( 456323 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:26AM (#9049559) Homepage
    It has been determined [guardian.co.uk] recently that Stonehenge was a giant vagina.

    • Re:Why they built them? (Score:4, Funny)

      by antic ( 29198 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:31AM (#9049573)
      I refuse to be the first guy on here to suggest that, in that case, their more modern attempt at building the same thing be any smaller!
    • From that article: But there is no evidence of any burials near Stonehenge, Perks adds. 'There is little sign of death; there are no tombs, because Stonehenge was a place of life and birth, not death, a place that looked to the future.'

      YACT - Yet Another Crackpot Theory. Nice try, but Stonehenge is surrounded by hundreds of burial mounds.

      • YACT - Yet Another Crackpot Theory. Nice try, but Stonehenge is surrounded by hundreds of burial mounds.

        I can remember the exact moment I heard that, on those little portable tour guide devices. I didn't even notice them before, but as soon as I actually looked up and paid attention to all of those mounds scattered around everywhere, my mind was blown.

  • I can see the ads (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Discover our erected rocks!

  • Europe's pagan roots (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:32AM (#9049575)

    It annoys me that some are insisting that the (future) EU constitution must stress Europe's Christian roots.

    As sites like Stonehenge show, Europe doesn't have Christian roots. It's roots are pagan. Christianity is a foreign religion for Europe. I think we should insist on the constitution stressing Europe's pagan roots. Now that would be cool!

    • What tells you that paganism is "native"? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kinniken ( 624803 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:40AM (#9049594) Homepage
      It annoys me that some are insisting that the (future) EU constitution must stress Europe's Christian roots.

      As sites like Stonehenge show, Europe doesn't have Christian roots. It's roots are pagan. Christianity is a foreign religion for Europe. I think we should insist on the constitution stressing Europe's pagan roots. Now that would be cool!


      Every thing is foreign at some point - even the pagan cults surrounding Stonehedge probably draw from older pagan cults who appeared and developed outside of Europe ;)
      Concerning the Constitution, I think Christianity should be mentioned since its role in Europe's history was indeed crucial. However, other religions who played a big role, including paganism (both Greek/Roman and Celtic), Judaism and Islam. Anyway, it's just a historical mention with no legal strength, and thus its effect is just symbolic.

      • Re:What tells you that paganism is "native"? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:49AM (#9049622)
        Every thing is foreign at some point - even the pagan cults surrounding Stonehedge probably draw from older pagan cults who appeared and developed outside of Europe ;)

        No, paganism is quite clearly linked to northern climates - the seasons play a central role in the makeup of paganism and so the beliefs are very unlikely to have come from anywhere near the equator.

        I think Christianity should be mentioned since its role in Europe's history was indeed crucial.

        What, crucial in terms of causing loads of wars and strife?

        its effect is just symbolic

        "Just symbolic" does not mean it is a trivial issue - otherwise why do you think church leaders are making such a big fuss about including it?
      • And why should religion be singled out to be mentioned in the Constitution? Arguably, we should then also put in Communism, National Socialism, etc., as w/o those there wouldn't be an EU - after all, the EC was founded after WW2 so that we wouldn't be fighting our neighbors anymore.

        So I say, fuck that, let it be a laicistic document to guide the EU and its citizens, and not something to divide us even more along religious lines.

      • Re:What tells you that paganism is "native"? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Asic Eng ( 193332 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @08:12AM (#9049940)
        Concerning the Constitution, I think Christianity should be mentioned since its role in Europe's history was indeed crucial.

        I think it's even more crucial that today we have religious freedom for all, including the freedom not to worship any god. It's a shame that some people still insist on somehow forcing their religious beliefs and symbols onto others. Please grant other people the same freedoms you want for yourself.

        • I think it's even more crucial that today we have religious freedom for all, including the freedom not to worship any god. It's a shame that some people still insist on somehow forcing their religious beliefs and symbols onto others. Please grant other people the same freedoms you want for yourself.

          I am forcing my beliefs on you there??? For a start, I am not even religious, I am agnostic. Then, Europe's non-religious heritage is mentioned in the Constitution as well. Lastly, I fail to see why mentioning
          • I am French and takes laicity very seriously

            Ok, thats twice in this thread. Pardon my ignorance, but what, exactly, is 'laicity'?
            • "laicity" is the separation of goverment from church.

              It is one of the pilar of modern French state: governement, schools are all 'religion-free', religious activities are considered are purely private issue.

              It is very strange for French people to see the US president using the bible during his nomination, or witness swearing on the bible during a trial..
              • It is one of the pilar of modern French state: governement, schools are all 'religion-free', religious activities are considered are purely private issue.

                On the other hand, neutrality with respect to religion and respect for the personal beliefs of people is not a part of the culture as the recent ban on religiously-mandated clothing shows. As an American, I find the slight to the Muslim, Jewish, and Sikh communities to be highly offensive and oppressive. In France, apparently relgious freedom means sup
      • >I think Christianity should be mentioned since its role in Europe's history was indeed crucial.

        And? The constitution is for the future not for the past and in Europe it has been pretty well established that religions should be kept separated from governments..

        So Christianity shouldn't be mentioned, it is just one religion among many other, currently and in the past it is one of the strongest religion in Europe, that's true but should we modify Europe's constition if/when Islam becomes the first?
        I don'

    • Re:Europe's pagan roots (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Eivind ( 15695 ) <eivindorama@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:50AM (#9049626) Homepage
      Everyones roots are various nature-religions. Beliefs evolve and change just as any other aspect of culture. They start out from those things that matter to people, and which everyone can see, but not understand, and evolve from there.

      It's no accident, for example, that the "sungod", the "moongodess", various gods for weather and bad or good hunting/harvest whatever developed multiple times independently.

      It's also no accident that as more and more of the things we observe can be explained rationally, the importance of religion fades. Essentially, religion is that which some people clutch to to explain what we cannot (yet anyway) explain rationally.

      Today, most people are satisfied that the sun is a large clump of hydrogen undergoing fusion. We know that ligthining is caused by electrical discharge, we can tell that the harvest is bad on that land not due to a curse, but due to a lack of say nitrogen-compounds and so on.

      Stonehenge, and similar astronomical sites are important, because they give us an idea how much the ancients knew about the movements of the various stars, sun and moon. And it marks a first step from mystism to rationality.

      The constitution of EU, ain't got much to do with this, but if it's any comfort to you, it's very likely to not mention any religions spesifically at all. If for no other reason than that the various religious nutcases could never agree on what to write.

      • Re:Europe's pagan roots (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Sique ( 173459 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @08:25AM (#9050011) Homepage
        It's no accident, for example, that the "sungod", the "moongodess", various gods for weather and bad or good hunting/harvest whatever developed multiple times independently.

        Interestingly though in the German language the sun (die Sonne) is female, and the moon (der Mond) is male. I know of no other language with this unique feature. Most languages, if they differentiate the sexus for sun and moon, describe the sun as male and the moon as female. What does this tell us about Germans? (And yes, this makes the translation of myths and legends into German somewhat squirky :) )
        • Ah but... is it the gender of the word, or the gender of the thing to which the word refers? Is there such a rule in German?

          For example the word for girl in German is das Maedchen which is neuter, because of the "chen" on the end of the word IIRC. Well, that's what they taught me at school.

          Also, in German, "der See" is "the lake" while "die See" is "the sea."

          But what do I know, I'm only Jockanese.

          • In German normally the natural gender determines the grammatical gender. There are a few exceptions as everywhere in language though. For instance the queen of a bee hive is either called "die Koenigin" (queen, female) or "der Weisel" (male).

            Maedchen is NO exception, because it is a diminuitive, and they are neuter in all cases (maybe because for little or infantile people you shouldn't expect any gender at all. If the natural gender has fully grown, they are not infantile anymore and loose neutrality in g

        • Djirbal, an Australian Aboriginal language, has that too. There are actually four "genders" in their language. Roughly:

          • Masculine - men/boys, the moon and most animals
          • Feminine - women/girls, the sun, fire, dangerous things such as stinging trees and weapons, bodies of water (where dangerous spirits live) and animals which young people are not allowed to catch.
          • Vegetable - Basically, edible plants
          • Neuter - Everything else

          A good description of this is in George Lakoff's excellent work Women, Fire an

      • Today, most people are satisfied that the sun is a large clump of hydrogen undergoing fusion.

        So what, I'm choosing to worship the Sun anyway now that I know the choosen shape of God is a burning mass of hydrogen just strengthens my pagan faith ;-)

        , we can tell that the harvest is bad on that land not due to a curse, but due to a lack of say nitrogen-compounds and so on.

        Damn those cunning witches, they leached the nitrogen from my lands. Burn them!

        And it marks a first step from mystism to rationality.

      • Re:Europe's pagan roots (Score:4, Insightful)

        by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @12:57PM (#9052858)
        > It's also no accident that as more and more of the things we observe can be explained rationally, the importance of religion fades.
        >Essentially, religion is that which some people clutch to to explain what we cannot (yet anyway) explain rationally.

        You have a very narrow view of what religion is.

        Science is *just* as dogmatic as religion, and in fact, *is* a religion. Anything that seeks the Truth of how the universe works, and why, is "pure" religion. Just because Science does it objectively, does not negate the fact that one can also do it subjectively. There is knowledge outside the realm of Science that it will *never* know, but just because it can't know, doesn't imply that we can't know, and in fact I would argue, that we *can* know.

        Peace
    • ...we should stop looking backwards and look forward to a future where all superstition is relegated to where it belongs: in the past.
      • Why do you suppose Stonehenge is about superstition. Stonehenge, and the many associated monuments in the Wiltshire landscape (Silbury Hill, Avebury, West Kennet etc) were as much to do with a show of power - these were the first peoples in this country who were able to change the landscape in this way.
        • Why do you suppose Stonehenge is about superstition.

          Maybe it's because there people, like many other primitive cultures, used to think daft things like you have to sacrifice people and animals to make the sun come up again at certain times of year etc?

          Superstition still goes on and is condoned (and even celebrated) to this day and in Western culture, which is supposedly "advanced". I need not spell out what for fear of lynching.

          • Maybe it's because there people, like many other primitive cultures, used to think daft things like you have to sacrifice people and animals to make the sun come up again at certain times of year etc?

            There's no evidence whatsoever of sacrifice taking place at Stonehenge. These monuments were all about taking control and ownership of the landscape at about the same time as society was transforming from a mobile hunter-gatherer one to a sedentary farming based one. It was about establishing control of the

            • Really? I thought it was about druid who used to hack to death young ladys to make sure that the sun came up again after the winter solstice. Maybe I heard wrong. A mad wiccan told me that. He was as mad as a hatter.
    • That's only really true of Scandinavia and some other parts of northern Europe. Greece, for example, has been largely Christian since Christianity was first started. It's true that the ancient Greek religions were pagan, but they're hardly pagan in a way that's closely related to northern European paganism (and certainly not to neopaganism), and the development of modern Greek culture has been far more influenced by 2000 years of Christianity, particularly the Byzantine Empire.

      Similar things might be sai
    • As sites like Stonehenge show, Europe doesn't have Christian roots. It's roots are pagan.

      Christianity itself has pagan roots. Christmas: Started as winter solstice. Christmas trees come from pagan beliefs. Easter, with all the eggs and cute lil' easter bunnies? (Symbols of fertility.) Pagan, once again. The notion of virgin birth, 2nd coming - almost everything about Christianity has a prior history with the pagans.

  • I'm not very much into 'scientific' promotion that aim to interest people in the past. Let's talk about how we can change things, make things better. Let's talk about the science in invention and innovation! Let's work on tchnologies that make the future better!
    ______ my homepage [afriguru.com]

  • This time, build the road first (Score:4, Funny)

    by antic ( 29198 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:35AM (#9049586)
    Months ago, there was talk of burrowing a road underneath Stonehenge at great cost and it raised great concern amongst many.

    How about this time they put the road in, and *then* place the stones?

    However many hundreds of years on, surely we've learnt something about planning!

  • The family trip (Score:5, Funny)

    by Call Me Black Cloud ( 616282 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:38AM (#9049592)
    Yet another reason to book a ticket!

    Husband: I know we've been flying for 13 hours to get here but let's go right to see Stonehenge Aotearoa.

    [later]

    Wife: This is it? It's a bunch of rocks!

    Husband: No, no, you don't understand. This is astronomically significant!

    Wife: [reading plaque] "Time to harvest the kumara" What's a kumara?

    Husband: It's a sweet potato.

    I imagine at this point the wife will sacrifice the husband on the pagan altar, or whatever they install at this thing.

    • Yet another reason to book a ticket!

      Husband: I know we've been flying for 13 hours to get here but let's go right to see Stonehenge Aotearoa.

      [later]

      Wife: This is it? It's a bunch of rocks!

      Husband: No, no, you don't understand. This is astronomically significant!

      Wife: [reading plaque] "Time to harvest the kumara" What's a kumara?

      Husband: It's a sweet potato.

      I imagine at this point the wife will sacrifice the husband on the pagan altar, or whatever they install at this thing.

      It's at this stage that



    • Wife: [reading plaque] "Time to harvest the kumara" What's a kumara?

      Husband: It's a sweet potato.

      I imagine at this point the wife will sacrifice the husband on the pagan altar, or whatever they install at this thing.

      No, no, she'll want to sacrifice him after he tries steaming the kumara in one of the muddy boiling steam vents at Rotorua..."What's that SMELL, dear?"

  • Already been done, by Sam Hill (Score:5, Informative)

    by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:40AM (#9049595)
    Sam hill already built a Stonehenge replica [spokaneoutdoors.com]near Goldendale, WA USA. It's near the Mary Hill museum of Art [maryhillmuseum.org], noted for it's collection of relics from the last czars of Russia... some of the few that didn't burn when the revolution came.

    I believe it was built as a 1st World War memorial rather then to study astrometry.

  • Leylines (Score:4, Funny)

    by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:47AM (#9049618) Journal
    Come on! A stone circle built in NZ isn't going to work properly. Stonehenge on its own is just a pile of rocks. You need a properly aligned networks of temples and natural features to generate the correct psychic energy flows.

  • think again (Score:3, Insightful)

    by beckerie ( 775211 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:53AM (#9049639)
    The aim of the project, funded by a grant of NZ$56,500 from the Royal Society of New Zealand, is to generate interest in science among people who might not normally be keen on the subject.
    It may well be a miscalculation to think that building a stonehenge somewhere will generate interest in the public. Some people may not even know what a stonehenge is, let alone participate and visit one.

    Advancement and discoveries in science are happening all the time but as amazing and awesome as they are, the fact stands that what may be interesting to some people, is trivial to others.

  • wired pulp vs. online.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by sjs132 ( 631745 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @06:53AM (#9049640) Homepage Journal
    Once again, no reason to renew my subscription to the pulp version of wired when I can get it free online, just a few weeks later...
    • Actually, despite wired saying "this article will be available on $date", they're all available if you can guess the name of the html page. open up one that *is* available & replace the name with your guess - they tend to be 8 letter names.
  • Whilst most assume that Stonehenge was used to establish the position of the stars, there is another explanation.

    The stars may have been used to accurately establish the orientation of Stonehenge.

    In otherwords, the builders cared not one whit where the stars were, but they cared greatly as to the position and alignment of stonehenge.

    They knew that astronomical observation and unique annual events could achieve this objective.

    So the real question is "Why would it be important to precisely position and orient Stonehenge?"

    It would be important if there was more than one Earth, e.g. in a parallel universe.

    How else could builders on both planets construct something in precisely the same place and orientation?

    What would be the benefit to having two Stonehenges in identical positions and alignments?

    A gate. Morphic resonance. Weave your way through one henge and pop out at the other.

    Dangerous stuff.

    And if you decide you don't like the gate, or the folk who come through it? Knock it down until it stops working.
    • Oooh, oooh, just like those moongates in that game...Ultima. Or it could just be an accurate calendar for determining when it's time to plant your crops and harvest them. Modern farming techniques in ancient times? Before you dismiss this bear in mind the Maori people of New Zealand have a fishing calendar which Dad and I used to use to determine when to fish and what fish to try and catch at that time. Lot's of info on google about it or click here [google.com]if you're lazy.

  • Aliens (Score:4, Funny)

    by pklong ( 323451 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @07:27AM (#9049751) Journal
    You do know that you are seriously going to confuse the aliens when you put stonehenge in the southern hemisphere.

  • Stonehenge was rebuilt itself anyway...(maybe) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gulio ( 325553 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @07:33AM (#9049776)
    Given that claims [thisisbristol.com] have been made in recent years that stonehenge itself was almost completely rebuilt in the 20th century (based on evidence like constables paintings [google.co.uk] and contemporary photos [ufos-aliens.co.uk]), I don't understand why anyone would get their backup about a reproduction being made. (Granted there were many counter claims [english-heritage.org.uk]) [Personally I'd be interested in seeing even the techniques used even in 1902 reemployed in NZ]

  • They're not the first (Score:4, Informative)

    by Inigo Soto ( 776501 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @07:46AM (#9049820) Homepage
    Nebraskans already built a replica of Stonehenge [carhenge.com]
  • SCO claimed ownership of the Stonehenge design and announced a lawsuit aganst the Phoenix Astronomical Society for copyright infringement. "Stonehenge was clearly an early computer, and as such, it might be used to run an early version of Unix. Which we own."
  • "My crazy brother"- Prentice Hall

  • Explains why stonehenge exists (Score:3, Funny)

    by kalayl ( 604800 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @08:07AM (#9049907)
    Of course, 4000 years ago a bunch of scientists were probably sitting around, staring at a decaying set of rocks 8000 years old, called someotherhenge. They were asking themselves who built them and why, which is when they decided to replicate someotherhenge and build what we now know as stonehenge, in england.

  • Boy, oh, boy... (Score:3, Funny)

    by ndnet ( 3243 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @08:10AM (#9049926)
    ... will you be hated by anthropologists and archeologists. Think about it - after any writing is worn away, someone will dig it up and compare it to the original (which is a National Treasure of Some Sort (TM), so it'll be safe).

    At that point, they'll wonder if we're still pagans, or if pagans survived and migrated, or what... After all, they'll be able to date this one to 2005 AD, and the other one is thousands of years old.
  • The Department of Physics and Astronomy ot the University of Massachusetts in Amherst undertook a similar project a few years ago.

    What makes their project unique is that the design is NOT a replica of Stonehenge but, rather, a reconceptualization of the calendar wheel based on a modern understanding of astronomy.

    Check it out here [umass.edu].
  • Next they erected the pillars and lintels, hollow structures constructed using wood and cement board (hewn stone would have been too expensive and time-consuming to erect). But in a nod to the old, the finished henge will be coated with cement and covered in plaster sculpted to look like stone. Inside the "stones" will be some modern accoutrements: wires to allow a sound system to be installed. "We've already got two couples who want to get married out here," says Hall.

    I thought it was a pretty neat idea
  • The University of Missouri-Rolla (UMR) built their own version of Stonehenge [umr.edu] to demonstrate high pressure waterjet [umr.edu] technology.

  • the proposed pictures show a very "complete" and structurally intact stonehenge.

    I believe, for it to generate enough public interest, the structure has to have enough signs of wear and tear - be it caused by time, or annexes/captures/attacks by helpful enemies.

    Without that sign of missing elements, wear and tear, and a well-rounded story (or myth) to go with it, there'd be very less talk to go about with at the pub with a pint of the best local bitter!

  • shouldn't that be... (Score:3, Funny)

    by samhalliday ( 653858 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @09:30AM (#9050463) Homepage Journal
    Richard Hall, president of the Firefox Astronomical Society?

  • Stonehenge in Texas (Score:2, Informative)

    by mknewman ( 557587 ) *
    There is a replica of Stonehenge and also two large Easter Island statues near Kerrville Texas, here is a web page: http://www.texastwisted.com/attr/stonehenge2/ Marc

  • Aha! That's what they want you to *think* it's for (Score:5, Informative)

    by mwood ( 25379 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @10:05AM (#9050837)
    Actually they are scheming to reconfigure the Earth's axis of rotation for arcane purposes. Why else build it more or less exactly opposite England?

    The two circles are ectoplasmic bearings. When Stonehenge B is up and running, all of the ley lines will snap together through the line between them, the planet will be wrenched into a new and more mystical rotational mode, and astronomers will rule the world! (Hey, it's easier than building a dimensional redistributor -- the tubes are so hard to come by.) :-) for the humor-impaired.

  • Been there, done that (Score:2, Informative)

    by wcspxyx ( 120207 )
    UMR did this [umr.edu] many moons ago.

  • They'll be gone when I get there (Score:3, Interesting)

    by pablo_max ( 626328 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @10:45AM (#9051276)
    Take a look at them. They are janky POS's. Its built from freaken wood. The wonderment we get from the originals is not really the shape or the function of it, but rather the fact that it was built from huge blocks of impossible to move rocks. Its the fact that the blocks are so wildly huge that we can only guess how they were able to build something to such a high degree of precision, while we who are so advanced would struggle to reproduce it.
    So Im sorry, but some bone heads making a fake stone henge out of wood which wont last 10 years let alone 10,000 is just LAME!
  • Just remember sunwise is the other way round in the southern hemisphere as Stonehenge is a solar site.

    PS: English Heritage are blasphemeous bastards as punters are supposed to go along the walkway (which is close as you can get to the stones these days) anticlockwise round Stonehenge

  • This got rejected as a Slashdot story submission:

    Wally Wallington moves huge objects alone. [exn.ca]

    See also Ancient Construction [theforgott...nology.com].

  • Not only has this already been done, but it was done 10 years ago in New Zealand [etete.com]

    But doesn't this thread belong under the "Stand Alone Calendar App" topic?

  • ...leads to more questions.

    Why?

    "We came up with the idea of Stonehenge because it doesn't matter who you are -- everyone looks at the Pyramids and Stonehenge and structures like that (and asks) who built them, why did they build them?"

    So, we're building something out of rocks because we don't know why someone else built something out of rocks? What will people think in 5,000 years when they come across the new Stonehenge? "Hey, these people were obviously great astronomers!" Wrong! They were cop
  • UMR Stonehenge [umr.edu] was dedicated on June 20, 1984 (summer solstice), at the site of the northwest edge of campus. Approximately 160 tons of granite were used in the monument. The rock was cut to the proper dimensions by UMR's Waterjet equipment. This equipment used two waterjets cutting at a pressure of 15,000 pounds per square inch traversing the surface just like a conventional saw. The cutter moved at a speed of about 10 feet per minute and cut between one-quarter and one-half inch on each path.

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