XCor Receives Sub-Orbital Launch Permit 108
Marc Newman writes "MSNBC is reporting that XCor has received the second FAA suborbital launch permit. Xcor Aerospace is not competing in the X-Prize but rather is 'in it to make money'. They are still awaiting a launch permit for their Mojave desert launch site. It'd be interesting if XCor beat Scaled Composites with the first sub-orbital flight but couldn't claim the $10 million prize."
Oh, the SECOND one (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Oh, the SECOND one (Score:1)
Re:Oh, the SECOND one (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, it was Neil Armstrong.
IN the 70s, though, after that great feat was accomplished, Evil Knievel managed to jump from Pike's Peak and land on the moon. Nobody cares, of course, because he wasn't the first man on the moon.
Re:Oh, the SECOND one (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Oh, the SECOND one (Score:2)
(clue... the parent actually knew that Neil Young wasn't actually the first guy on the moon.)
I already knew that Neil Young wasn't the first guy on the moon. He was the guy that sat around for years waiting for Zaphod to show up with his ship and take him to the headquarters of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Duh!
Re:Oh, the SECOND one (Score:1)
Hmm... (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah...I'll bet that if that happened, Burt Rutan would eXCORiate everyone who worked for him
excellent (Score:5, Insightful)
And when the time comes, I'll be ready to take a flight.
Re:excellent (Score:1)
I would, too, though my wife says she'll never be ready to let me go up in space. Of course, by that time, maybe she'll have changed her mind ...
Re:excellent (Score:5, Insightful)
Requirements? (Score:2, Interesting)
I remember you have to send a manned shuttle up twice within two weeks, but is it limited to those teams that are registered?
I know, I should RTFA...
Re:Requirements? (Score:5, Informative)
Privately finances, builds & launches a spaceship, able to carry three people to 100 kilometers (62.5 miles)
Returns safely to Earth
Repeats the launch with the same ship within 2 weeks
Re:Requirements? (Score:1, Informative)
A team must build a sub-orbital spaceplane that can carry three people to an altitude of 45 miles. Then, it must use the same vehcile to perform the same feat within three weeks.
Do this, and you get a $10,000,000 prize.
Re:Requirements? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and one other thing... the ten million dollars is only funded through the end of this year.
Re:Requirements? (Score:2)
Re:Requirements? (Score:1)
Other mass: If anything is jettisoned it must be recovered if it would require replacement of >10% vehicle mass. So first stages if used, drop tanks if used, one-shot heatshields etc. must be carefully looked at to make sure that the vehicle (excluding propellant) is at least 90% reuseable.
Mojave Desert.... (Score:5, Funny)
Soon the 'kingdom of nye' will have new sightings to report...
Sounds like they are well on their way (Score:5, Interesting)
Why exactly are they not in the x-prize competition? Looks like they may be some real competition.
Hmm... (Score:2)
Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Informative)
It didn't look like their vehicle has the capacity required, but I could be wrong. Sure didn't look like it to me.
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
This sounds pretty ambiguous to me. So how much larger?
Is this the 10 million dollar loophole?
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
"Three people of this size or larger must be able to enter, occupy, and be fastened into the flight vehicle on Earth's surface prior to take-off, and equivalent ballast must be carried in-flight if the number of persons on-board during flight is less than 3 persons."
Re:Hmm... (Score:2)
you mean off your rocket?
Re:Sounds like they are well on their way (Score:4, Informative)
Simple (Score:2)
Their suborbital craft has not even begun construction, I believe. They're still in the engine development and testing phase. The EZ-Rocket is by no means a suborbital craft and never will be. It's merely a good testbed for some of their engines. (It happens to use two of their 400-lb thrust engines.)
So far, if you look at their site, they have only racked up 0.2 minutes of running time on their 18
Money, not money (Score:5, Funny)
Xcor Aerospace is not competing in the X-Prize but rather is 'in it to make money'.
Oh I see, they want to make money, not win the prize... which is... money...
Uh..
Of course it is money, but think for a moment. (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, to win the Xprize, one has to do it with a reusable LV, with 3 passengers and a 2 week (?) turnaround between flights etc etc.
So it's not so surprising. Of course all the Xprize people are in for the money. One can ask why subscribe to so many constraints, well the Xprize Consortium is backed by a lot of influential people. By subscribting to it, you can free publicity, and A LOT OF connections to people who probably will be your future customers (or your future customers' friends.)
Re:Money, not money (Score:3, Insightful)
There's no way they're going to beat Scaled, and no permit is going to help that.
Re:Money, not money (Score:4, Insightful)
The X-Prize is a lot of money, but it's not likely to be enough to cover the costs of what it demands... not just one space flight, but two in one week's time. Not to mention, if you plan it all but get beat to the punch, there's no prize for coming in second.
All of the ventures shooting for the X-Prize have to have a motive to keep going beyond the X-Prize, win or lose, to be viable.
Re:Money, not money (Score:2, Interesting)
In it for money? (Score:1, Insightful)
"To make money has always been our goal," he said.
If they're in it for the money, wouldn't it make sense to compete for the X-Prize, while they're at it?
It seems the publicity of winning would help their business, not to mention 10 million bucks in the pocket ain't bad.
Re:In it for money? (Score:2, Insightful)
Obligatory Question (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:2)
This airspace is broken up into different airspaces [helicfi.com] depending upon a number of details, including the presence and type of airports, common routes of air traffic, and terrain. At the upper end, "Class A" airspace is only used by aircraft flying IFR ("Instrument Flight Rules") under air traffic control.
Rob Machado, a popular aviation educator and humorist, likes to relate a story (which I will paraphrase here). The ATC w
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:1)
Thanks, that is certainly something to think about, both the launch it's self and the supsequent ascension through US air space.
Certainly no other country needs our approval to orbit satellites. I would be interested to know how far "up" our jurisdiction goes
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:4, Insightful)
Both a rhetorical question, and genuine curiosity.
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:1)
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:1, Interesting)
similarly... (Score:4, Interesting)
But there were still international waters (like today) that nobody owns and have little in the way of law. Space is like that, and the air between orbit and ground is like the border waters.
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:2)
There was a great deal of legal wrangling, piracy, and war as a consequence of the European nations independantly exploring the world. More information here [wikipedia.org]. And more generally, here [wikipedia.org]. Don't forget this [wikipedia.org].
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:2)
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:2)
The Collision Regulations commonly known as ColRegs are adhered to at sea the world over. In areas where local jurasdictions may apply, local regulations are normally derived from the colregs. International courts uphold the ColRegs, and, in the case of contest, insurance companies will 'assign blame' based on them, irrelavent of jurasdiction or lack thereof at the point of incident.
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Obligatory Question (Score:2, Insightful)
As long as you don't plan to come back down, you can safely ignore the FAA.
Come back, though, and don't have the right permits? You'll wish you'd burned up on reentry.
Basically, I agree with you. The idea of a US government agency having control over attempts at flights outside the Earth's atmosphere just annoys me to no end. But as I said, if you plan to com
no (Score:4, Informative)
There is, however, regulation of the air between the ground and orbit.
Which is what the FAA regulates. Launching potentially dangerous vehicles through said air falls under their purvue of regulation.
Why exactly would this be interesting? (Score:1)
Ironic, perhaps? But they publicly claim they aren't competing in this...
Maybe I missed something.
Family Affair (Score:5, Interesting)
Burt Rutan's company Scaled Composites has the first license for their SpaceShipOne.
http://www.dickrutan.com/rocket.html [dickrutan.com]Re:Family Affair (Score:3, Interesting)
The best (rough, from memory) quote from Dick: "My brother told me the Voyager would fly within the specs he told me. After we landed, he mentioned that I, nor anyone else, questioned his specs or asked him to prove his formulas mathematically. I just trusted what he said."
Re:Family Affair (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Family Affair (Score:2)
You are correct. I wasn't sure, since my source was the History Channel. Here is more (corect) info. [centennialofflight.gov]
Yeager, who is no relation to the famous test pilot Chuck Yeager, first met Dick Rutan, and his brother Burt, at a California air show in 1980.
Re:Family Affair (Score:1, Redundant)
XCOR'S test pilot is Dick Rutan, the brother of Burt Rutan, the guy behind Scaled Composites.
Talk about interesting family dynamics..
Everything related to RLV development is still very much in the cooperative phase, like homebrew computers in the early 1970's. Not enough money in it yet to really sharpen the competition.
Re:Family Affair (Score:2)
Financial Motive (Score:5, Interesting)
The X-Prize itself serves more of a publicity role, keeping the developing entries in the media (including
Exciting stuff nonetheless.
Re:Financial Motive (Score:2)
$10 Mil? Peanuts (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:$10 Mil? Peanuts (Score:2)
Exactly! As Adam Smith beat to death in The Wealth of Nations, Man will do whats in his best interests. In a currency based economy that means try to make billions of dollars. People want to be in space for a variety of reasons. Being in space is hard. Hard translates to expensive in economical terms. People ave to spend alot of effort to do stuff in space. Hence why the space shuttle launches are expensive.
Now, all you people that feel that we have to go into space for
Re:$10 Mil? Peanuts (Score:1)
Re:$10 Mil? Peanuts (Score:2)
Re:$10 Mil? Peanuts (Score:1, Funny)
You meant militarization, right?
Re:$10 Mil? Peanuts (Score:2)
The X-Prize Foundation was founded in 1996, according to their web site [xprize.org]
The commercialization of space has been ongoing for some time now. Maybe satellites aren't as glamorous as manned missions, but probably a lot more commercially lucrative.
However, if this leads to more creative practical uses of space, then I am in full support. Solar satellites with microwave power transmission, anyone?
Re:$10 Mil? Peanuts (Score:1)
nice bluff (Score:2, Flamebait)
Dick's brother Burt is going to beat him into space on this one. In SpaceShipOne no less! I'm sure that is going to burn a bit. Maybe Burt wi
Re:nice bluff (Score:1, Interesting)
XCor has basically designed a rocket engine, and slapped it into a modified kit plane to test it. Sure, they've got renderings of a larger, suborbital-worthy ship, but nothing else to show for it for a few years now.
Scaled Composites, OTOH, has designed and built a rocket engine, a suborbital spaceship, and a carrier to get the ship up to launching altitude.
They may both be competing for dollars (present or future), but it's easy to see who's farther along.
Re:nice bluff (Score:1)
Re:nice bluff (Score:1)
I was wondering about this myself as it says right on the XCOR website about the EZ-Rocket: "The maximum altitude that can be attained is 1.91 miles (10,000 ft)." That's a pretty big stretch to sub-orbital. The Xerus plane (XCOR's next project) looks years away at best. This was clearly a publicity stunt for XCOR. Though it's good to see more people working on making safe and cheap rocket propelled vehicles. The more companies competing in this market the cheaper space filight we'll be someday.
You know what? (Score:2)
Dick has set enough world records in his brother's aircraft already.
I would not be surprised if there is future cooperation between XCor and Scaled (maybe even an existing project that is under wraps.)
XCor is primarily a rocket engine development company, which is working on solving many of the safety and reliability problems with liquid-fueled rockets that caused Burt to choose a hybrid rocket for SS1.
Scaled is primarily an airframe company - It's not often that they be
Seperate Tiers of Activity (Score:2)
The Private space industry is probabally going to specialize in some aspects like this anyway, and why not let that happen. There is currently a friendly rivalry between the different space companies, but I don't see it (yet) as a vicious cut-throat business. There are just too many issues right now, and they want to keep a united front to deal with bureaucratic issues being thrown up by the government.
The real questi
They need a better name...it's all marketing (Score:4, Funny)
Text of Permit (Score:4, Funny)
Actually... (Score:3, Informative)
Beating Scaled Composites into sub-orbit is not enough to claim the X-prize. To claim the $10 million, you have to fly the same craft TWICE into sub-orbit within (I believe) 2 weeks.
Re:Actually... (Score:2)
Normally in a sentence that begins "Actually..." you disagre with the statement you're responding to in some manner.
Re:Actually... (Score:2)
good link (xprize), X Prize Cup? (Score:5, Informative)
The site shows something else interesting ... that while Xcor isn't participating in the X Prize, they do plan on participating in the X Prize Cup (which will happen later).
EZ-Rocket (Score:3, Insightful)
reusable shuttle craft? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:reusable shuttle craft? (Score:1)
So, while Xcor might send a ship to the space station sometime, it'll be some time after their current ideas ...
Re:reusable shuttle craft? (Score:1)
Huh? (Score:4, Funny)
1. Enter Xprise with the goal of not winning prize.
2. Attain goal of not winning the prize.
3. ???
4. Profit!!!
Well, so far, I think they have succeeded in not winning the prize. If they are really careful, they can perhaps pull a rabbit out of their hat and manage to not win the prize at the last minute, if they really have what it takes. I, for one, will be watching Xcor very closely to see if they do in fact manage to meet their goal of not winning a prize.
Bulk reply from XCOR employee (Score:5, Interesting)
I just want to clear up some confusion generated by inaccuracies both in the MSNBC story and the slashdot post:
The vehicle we have received a licence for, as stated in our press release [xcor.com] is not a full suborbital vehicle and is not an X-Prize competitor. It is an intermediate technology research platform to continue development of engines and related systems that began flight testing on the EZ-Rocket, our currently flying manned rocket powered airplane. It is also noted that this new vehicle, the Sphinx, has not yet been built. Quoth the press release: "It is helpful that RLV companies can obtain their launch licenses during vehicle design, prior to committing capital to build a vehicle."
A stated before, we are not an X-Prize competitor, due to among other things, a conflict in the time scale of the X-Prize and our business development plan, as well as the planned configuration of our current suborbital vehicle design. XCOR is focused on revenue generation. However, we fully support the X-Prize and offer technology and services to X-Prize entrants, as well as moral and legislative support.
Mike Massee XCOR Aerospace www.xcor.com
Xcor - a cool company! (Score:4, Interesting)
I wrote about it at the time on my website [alioth.net] and took plenty of photos. It was quite impressive the number of firsts that Xcor were achieving.
FDP: Commercialization of Space (Score:3, Interesting)
Commericialization of space is important in the sense that space will eventually no longer be monopolized by scientists and engineers, but be within the grasp of ordinary people of all kinds of backgrounds. I believe quite strongly that the only way to democratize space, and keep it accessible to the average person is to provide an economic incentive for businesses to exploit their various resources.
I look forward to the day where a father and son might build a spaceship together and, at very least, head towards the stratosphere. Perhaps saftety systems will be developed to make this a reality.
I wish XCor the best of luck. Perhaps they will develope things we have not yet imagined
Bad Precident (Score:2)
"But everybody knows you have to bend over for authority figures!"
Enough kow-towing to the bureaucrats. They've had space for more than 40 years and wasted it. Let's get off this rock!
Bob-
Re:Bad Precident (Score:2)
They really didn't get serious about even trying to come up with procedures for approving the licenses until well after the X-Prize was announced. Suddenly some people started to realize that this really was a serious effort for privately financed vehicles going into space and a real debate over who exactly was going to take charge of reg
Re:Bad Precident (Score:2)
http://www.awdal.com/
Somalia. Wide open, practically regulator-free.
Bob-