Sapphire: A Liquid That Won't Get Things Wet

eaglebtc writes "Tuesday on Good Morning America, a representative from Tyco Fire & Security demonstrated an amazing new substance called Sapphire: a water-like fluid that does not get things wet. He filled a small fish tank with Sapphire and submerged a book, a laptop, and a flat panel TV. Both electronics were turned on when submerged; all three items came out completely unharmed. Click here for a slideshow of the demonstration. The official name for Sapphire is actually Novec 1230. Read about it here (PDF). Tyco sees practical applications of Sapphire in fire extinguisher systems for museums and libraries. By the same token of practicality, regular readers of Slashdot probably have something else in mind: total-immersion watercooling. Just think of the possibilities!"

Safe?

[ackthpt]

The new substance by Tyco is supposed to be environmentally safe.

Have them drink a glass of it, then I'll believe it.

Prior Art(!): Bartholomew and the Oobleck

Chemical properties

[detritus`]

Sorry to say but this wont be a very good immersion cooling solution, the heat capacity of this stuff is WAY less than water, at least according to the info i could find on it. As well the toxicity is not something you'd want to be exposed to on a daily basis, i just feel sorry for that poor guy on TV who was blithely sticking his hands into the tank of this stuff and such, hope he doesnt need his liver for anything if he does this sort of thing on a regular basis.

Re:"Water"-cooling

[Brento]

...according to their specs sheet (PDF warning), this stuff has a boiling point of 49.2C (120.6F). Processors burn hotter than that, how useful would it still be for cooling purposes if it were a gas?

If they're using it to put out fires, it's a safe bet that it can handle your Athlon.

Uh..

[hookedup]

Why give a new substance the name of an older substance?

Re:"Water"-cooling

[shuz]

You could always do a cooling tower like system. The saphire boils, turns into a gas, and then in the cooling stack condensates back into a liquid. Also it should be noted that 3M has a liquid product that does the same thing as saphire and has a higher boiling point. It probably still gets things wet, which saphire aparently doesn't, but it is not electicly conductive. Its also really expensive! I think THG did an article on the stuff a few years back.

Re:"Water"-cooling

[rangek]

this stuff has a boiling point of 49.2C (120.6F). Processors burn hotter than that

Not if they are cooled. The real question is what is this stuff's heat capacity and thermal conductivity. (I.e., how much heat can I stuff in to a given mass of this substance, while staying below a certain temperature (like 49C) and how quickly can I suck it up and push it out?)

Re:Safe?

[Daniel_Staal]

There are a lot of things that are poisonous to humans in the environment. Being poisonous in large doses is not a problem.

The problems would occur if it is poisonous in small or cumulative doses, or if it breaks down into something that is. If it clears out quickly, and does no lasting harm (to humans, plants, animals, land, water or air) while doing so, it is environmentally safe. Just don't drink it.

Re:"Water"-cooling

[Anonymous Custard]

"...according to their specs sheet (PDF warning), this stuff has a boiling point of 49.2C (120.6F). Processors burn hotter than that, how useful would it still be for cooling purposes if it were a gas?"

If they're using it to put out fires, it's a safe bet that it can handle your Athlon.

Not if it doesn't conduct heat very well. A cloud of scalding hot carbon dioxide gas would put out a fire, too, but it wouldn't do much for cooling your processor.

Re:Pricey

[promethean_spark]

More like the opposite. Many times more buildings need fire prevention systems than a liquid cooling system. One library would need thousands of gallons of the stuff to feed their sprinkler system. If a library can afford thousands of gallons, the average geek should be able to afford a few quarts for coolant.

Re:wow?

[The Only Druid]

Except for the fact that after you remove the electronics, the Sapphire drips off and dries into the air (i.e. no rubbing required) whereas to get that mineral oil off you'd have to painstakingly open and isolate each part, and dab/wipe all that oil off. Not to mention that inert mineral oil would be absorbed into the fibers of a book or of a fabric, whereas Sapphire wont (which makes it ideal for fire suppression in libraries/clothing stores/repositories.

Re:"Water"-cooling

[jspoon]

If they're using it to put out fires, it's a safe bet that it can handle your Athlon.

Not the same thing. You aren't trying to put out fires by cooling them, you're depriving them of oxygen. It could be that it's just as good at that application in gaseous state as when a liquid. In processor's, on the other hand, you want something to conduct away the heat from the processor. Gasses are usually bad heat absorbers.

I do like what was said below about using the state change to cool, pumping the gaseous Sapphire away and re-condensing it. It would be more complicated than just putting your computer in a fish tank full of the stuff and letting convection do the rest (circulate the liquid keeping the coolest of it at the bottom), though.

Re:You'll forgive me

[pclminion]

I bet bad electricity conduction means bad heat conduction

Wrong, look at diamond, which has negligible electrical conductivity but extremely good heat conductivity.

Re:Conductivity

[frankie]

Even if you don't RTFA, you could at least look at the pretty pictures. They submerged a laptop and a plasma TV in the stuff while running, so that covers electrical. And since its intended use is fire suppression, its thermal specs must be fairly good.

Re:If it doesn't get things wet...

[lukewarmfusion]

Kinda like the old "If nothing sticks to Teflon, how does Teflon stick to the pan?"

I expect that a draining system would be the best way...

Re:If it doesn't get things wet...

[volve]

The parent has a very good point.

The good thing about using water to put out fires is: it's already everywhere, so it doesn't really matter if a "little more" runs down the drawn.

Saphire, however, is not /anywhere/, so what happens when the Lourve catches fire and the fancy new Saphire sprinkles kick into action? One more Mona Lisa saved, oh, but an entire building full of a strange liquid that, from what I can tell, would require a hazmat crew to clean-up.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want this stuff simply running down the drawn... :-/ So what are you going to do? Add special filters to all the drains in the Lourve? What if one of the sprinkles ends-up spraying outside, what happens to the environment?


-VolVE

Vapor Pressure

[ka9dgx]

You WILL breath this stuff if its in an open container. Give it long enough, and it'll reach an equilibrium nearly 40% of the atmosphere in an enclosed space. (I.E. an indoor room with low ventilation)

I wouldn't want to breath this stuff any more than I want to inhale octane, or anything else.

--Mike--

RTFA.

[iamsure]

"There was a substance that had similar properties produced in the past, but that fire suppression liquid was damaging the ozone layer. The new substance by Tyco is supposed to be environmentally safe."

Re:"Water"-cooling

[kevlar]

In all honesty, who gives a crap about whether it can be used as a coolant? There are already existing non-conductive liquid coolants on the market. The problem is that they're $X000/gallon, which is something most people cannot afford to invest in a heat sink!

It's not only about whether it could be a coolant, but whether it'd be affordable for anyone for personal use.

Personally the idea of using a chemical as a coolant doesn't put me at ease... especially when its something that you invite into your personal environment....

Re:"Water"-cooling

[Anonymous Coward]

It's better because you don't have to worry about your electronics frying if it springs a leak!

Re:Uhm

[ByteMangler_242]

Water is a danger. Personal story:

I had my apartment building catch on fire, but it was the floor above me. I thought things would be mostly fine, since the floors are fireproof. Well, a ladder truck was stationed outside my apartment, and if the newspapers are right, that truck shot about 1-3 million gallons of water that night (6 hrs to get fire under control). Well, that much water had a poor effect on my floor, and well, I was second floor. My living room fell into my downstairs neighbor from it. Not one lick of flame hit my stuff, but builing condition left my area condemned.

Moral of this story? Buy renter's insurance. It would have cost me $6-7 a month to get $5000 or more, and if I had started the fire, I would have been footing the bill for the whole building. I have a house now, and even if my mortgage didn't require it, I would have insurance.

Re:Fluorinert

[khrtt]

Non-toxic fluorocarbons often generate nasty thermal decomposition products. Mustard gas is a bad example, what you would get is a lot more like phosgene. Burn enough refrigerant, or just teflon in an open flame, and you will die.

They coat kitchen utensils with teflon, and it releases a small amount of phosgene into your kitchen atmosphere every time you ruin a cooking pan. Not enough to kill you, but the effects of phosgene are cumulative. I suppose this feature of teflon complements other natural selection mechanizms against forgetful people.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

You do not want to use this for cooling

[ChiralSoftware]

This is a hydrocarbon with a bunch of floruine in it. It's similar enough to many general anesthetics that I would imagine it could be used as one in its gas form. If the molecule is small enough to be absorbed in the lungs and carried through the blood-brain barrier, I'm guessing it would be a GA. Not something I want in my computer case.

------------
Create a WAP server [chiralsoftware.net]

Strange but serious question

[Rufus88]

In this context, what does "get something wet" mean? Just because you can submerge electronics in it, doesn't mean it isn't getting wet. Rather, it merely isn't getting wet with a liquid full of dissolved electrolyte conductors.

Re:Strange but serious question

[sp00j]

I would hazard to guess that the molecules of this substance do not stick to anything but themselves, as water does.

Re:Safe?

[HeghmoH]

Stop being an ignorant jackhole and read the links I provided, would you? The caffeine in your coffee is extremely dilute. Plutonium at the same level of concentration would as harmless as the caffeine is. One of them involves basically the same contest you proposed, in fact, although it sadly never took place. Being afraid of something with no evidence to back the fear up and much evidence to dispel it is superstition.

Re:Mod Parent Up

[gl4ss]

boiling is fucking good at removing energy.

he does not have a good point(it sounds good maybe, but it isnt).

evaporation coolers are used on high end cpu cooling all the time, what that means is that there is a refrigant evaporating on the coldplate(that is pressed against the cpu) constantly.

with a liquid that has a nice boiling point you could build a very nice passive cooler(basically an enermous heatpipe) that would be pretty sweet for cooling.

Re:Bad idea.

[dberger]

It's called the Leidenfrost effect [wikipedia.org].

The temp. range in which it occurs (and is sustainable) is specific to each liquid. Also, AFAIK, it also doesn't occur if you heat the body while in constant contact with the liquid.

Re:Specs Data

[Cecil]

You misunderstood. My wording was a bit unclear. By "that chemical composition", I was referring to the composition of this "Sapphire" (hooray for overloading material names, guys. Imagine if they had named plexiglas "Diamond"...)

Anyway, the composition of this liquid is CF3CF2C(O)CF(CF3)2. No chlorine at all. Carbon, Fluorine, and oxygen.