Non-Lethal Sniper Rifle: You're Tagged For Life 121
gbjbaanb writes "Cool new urban battlefield weaponry for the geeks to fear. The
Id Sniper is a nonlethal sniper rifle that fires tiny GPS microchips into the body of the target. The idea is that a rowdy crowd can be tagged for later 'processing' by law enforcement officials.
Apparently the chip hitting you will feel like a mosquito-bite lasting a fraction of a second.
Although it looks, and sounds like a cyberpunk weapon, its for real from a Danish company that has already shown it off at a Chinese Police exhibition.
check out the tracking software." Here's hoping this is cautionary artwork.
LOL (Score:2, Funny)
Use it to 'mark' the kids your child hangs out with so you can always keep track of what they do. Love and trust your kid, but be wary of his/her friends!
Re:LOL (Score:2)
Though it does remind me of IMIPAK [missouri.edu]. The only proposed defense against it was slavery.
Good aim... (Score:5, Interesting)
It may be a tiny device but you're either dead or blind either way.
Here is what happens (Score:5, Funny)
It is just the first step. Eventually, you will look like this [slashdot.org]
Re:Good aim... (Score:3, Insightful)
There are appropriate times for these weapons, but they are all too often used casually.
--
Evan
Re:Good aim... (Score:1)
They're actually referred to as "less-lethal [google.com]" weapons, since pepper spray, tear gas, etc. CAN and DO kill. Just not as much as, say, a bullet.
Re:Good aim... (Score:2)
Re:Good aim... (Score:1)
Re:Good aim... (Score:2)
Re:Good aim... (Score:2)
Re:Good aim... (Score:3, Funny)
Pardon me, I have to return a parrot...
"less lethal" not "non lethal" (Score:3, Informative)
Indeed. So-called "non-lethal" projectile and chemical weapons are not really non-lethal. That's propaganda: it's what the police call them to make them sound safe. Aw, a fluffy little bean bag. Aw, a plastic bullet. How much can a little thing like that hurt.
The reality is organ damage, serious wounds, broken bones, spinal injury, miscarriage, blindness, and death. And that's when the police don't deliberately aim for maximum injury, or fire at point blank range - the sadistic bastards.
Some weapo
Re:"less lethal" not "non lethal" (Score:1, Offtopic)
Troll?
I thought the information was accurate and relevant to the parent post, which discusses the lethality of non-lethal weapons, although arguably offtopic from the original article.
A moderation of Off-Topic would have made sense. Troll makes no sense to me.
-- Jamie
Re:"less lethal" not "non lethal" (Score:1)
I can believe most of those, but when is the last time you saw a pregnant woman in a crowd rolling a cop car over? Smashing parking meters, setting fires or looting stores and houses?
Isn't adding "miscarriage" to that list going a bit far? I'm sure it can happen, but an over-the-top statement like that makes it reek of propaganda. (These are the weapons of the baby-killers!!!)
We outnumber
Re:"less lethal" not "non lethal" (Score:2)
I can believe most of those, but when is the last time you saw a pregnant woman in a crowd rolling a cop car over? Smashing parking meters, setting fires or looting stores and houses?
The police use projectile and chemical weapons at non-violent protests too. That is wrong, of course, but it happens. It is a lapse in the professionality of the police.
Experienced people can often tell when the police are about to turn violent, for example if you see one smacking his/her hand with their baton like they
Re:Good aim... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:April Fools Injection (Score:2)
It's not 4/1/04 (Score:3, Interesting)
Today is not April Fool's day...........
Re:It's not 4/1/04 (Score:5, Informative)
I call parody [backfire.dk] (product number 2 from the same site.)
Shenanigans!? I better get my broom! (Score:1)
Re:It's not 4/1/04 (Score:1)
And then there's the fact that it runs on OpenBSD (stolen from post below) and Windows 3.11 (wtf?) - I'm sorry, but unless it runs on MS/DOS 5.0, it's just not worth getting. Save up for something that's more "standards compliant."
A 3D rendered rifle, and the other product thingy on their page, also a rendering,
Runs on OpenBSD? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Runs on OpenBSD? (Score:2)
Good Job, Junior Citizen! (Score:3, Interesting)
Check out the Home Page (Score:1)
Mike Oldfield "Maestro" again (Score:2)
In the default/demo mode, you can hit the spacebar and fire at whatever is in front of you. The bullets resemble tiny circuitboards.
Yep (Score:3, Funny)
BS (Score:5, Informative)
Re:BS (Score:2)
Re:BS (Score:3, Funny)
To identifiy a pet when you have it at a location where it can be scanned (such as a vet or the humane society). It does not allow you to track your pet.
And my dog thinks your cat is a pussy.
load the chips in a shotgun shell? (Score:2)
If you don't care if the rioters see you fire at them, and you don't care if they feel the pain of the, um, "injections", could chips like those used for pets be loaded into something like a shotgun shell?
After the riot you could scan pedestrians to see if they got chipped. Snap their pictures then. Have the turnstiles at the Subway activate hidden cameras to take the pictures of chipped riders automatically.
If you are scanning people sho
Re:load the chips in a shotgun shell? (Score:3, Interesting)
About the size of a piece of confetti. Or maybe quite a bit smaller.
What if you had riot control personnel carrying shotguns loaded with shells that shot out clouds of RFID confetti?
Back in the days of punch cards and paper tape some people used the "chad" from those cards in place of confetti. But it wasn't a nice thing to do. Chad, punched from card stock, with sharp edges, is much harder to remove t
Re:load the chips in a shotgun shell? (Score:2)
It's fake. (Score:5, Informative)
Furthermore, the GPS signal doesn't go very deep through human tissue, it degrades as it goes, and a transmitter strong ernough to be received more than a few hundred yards away would be comparable in size and power consumption to a cell phone.
Interesting concept. It's not impossible, but it's not cost effective now.
-Adam
Re:It's fake. (Score:2)
I believe it could possibly be real. When they call it a "GPS chip", what they really mean is that it's an RFID transponder, which when combined with their RFID tracking stations will GPS-locate the wearer of the chip. The idea would be to pepper a metro area with their transponders, which do have GPS hardware, and to track the transponders the person passes by.
Of course, current RFID transponders have far too limited a range (a few feet) to do this effectively. But who knows if they've managed to work
Re:It's fake. (Score:1)
Re:It's fake. (Score:3, Interesting)
There is no way you could reliably hit a target with a projectile that lightweight. To put the velocity behind it that you'd need to have enough kinetic energy to penetrate the skin would vaporize anything that small. Not to mention that it would become useless in even a light breeze.
Re:It's fake. (Score:2)
Building a proper projectile around that capsule wouldn't be too hard. Obviously the RFID capsule itself isn't what's chambered into the rifle. More than likely you would construct something similar to a standard centerfire rifle cartridge, but with a new-design projectile for implanting the things. Some lead weight in the back, a razor sharp front edge for piercing the skin, and the right velocity at the end of the flight path (enough to penetrate the skin with a razor isn't much). The real challenges/
Re:It's fake. (Score:2)
I strongly disagree. Look up Discarding Sabot rounds.
If the charge won't scramble the electronics, maybe you could fire them with a magnetic linear accelerator, also.
Windage, however, remains a problem.
Re:It's fake. (Score:2)
Re:It's fake. (Score:2)
WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT RFID'S ???
The 'emforcement' could corral everyone in an area and one by one scan them with a passive rfid reader which ENERGIZES the rfid tag with the tiny bit of electricy on that specific frequency.
Re:It's fake. (Score:2)
I'm saying that it can't be what they claim it is (GPS and/or satellite tracking transmitter).
The idea behind this system is that the people won't know that they're wearing this tag, and that they can be tracked remotely. RFID tags this small can only be read from so far away.
So, in short, this is not what it claims to be. If it's RFID, th
This would NEVER be abused in the USofA, right?? (Score:2, Funny)
Malloy: The United States is a non-smoking nation! No smoking, no drugs, no alcohol, no women - unless you're married - no foul language, no red meat!
Snake Plissken: Land of the free.
Big "A-10 Warthog" Mosquito (Score:3, Informative)
Even assuming wire a LOT finer than typical magnet (coil wrapping) wire, that looks like one hell of a big device. Maybe you are required to bend over so they can inject it as a suppository.
Just a little late for April 1st...
Good vs. Evil vs. ??? (Score:4, Interesting)
This sentence leads to some interesting concepts:
* If the Chinese authorities had this cyber-weapon at their disposal, would lives have been saved at Tiananmen Square [bbc.co.uk]?
* If the demonstrators had been tagged instead of shot outright, would it have been any better for them in the long run?
* Isn't the whole idea incredibly creepy?
Actually, I have my doubts that a map, like the one tracking the terrorist padre [backfire.dk] in the demo, is currently possible. Remember the distance-squared law, frequently mentioned in other RFID articles?
This sounds more like a James Bond [projectorbooth.com] tracking device than anything possible in the Real World.
Something similar that *would* be useful against *real* criminals would be a TollTag [ntta.org] gun -- fire a vehicle tracker into the body panel of a fleeing vehicle, and track it as it travels the freeway system in a wired-up town like Houston [houstontranstar.org].
Re:Good vs. Evil vs. ??? (Score:2)
Mod me down, please! (Score:3, Insightful)
Mod me down... after replying to such a fake, I don't deserve Karma.
Now, what do we do about Timothy [monkey.org], the editor, and gbjbaanb [sourceforge.net], the submitter?
Re:Good vs. Evil vs. ??? (Score:1)
Fake can be just as good (Score:3, Informative)
This can't be real.
The image of the rifle in question [backfire.dk] looks like CGI from a video game [backfire.dk] -- if it was real, why not just use a photo rather than a photo-realistic synthetic graphic?
And their other product [backfire.dk], with the silly cartoons [backfire.dk], is even more implausible. But let's not get distracted by the obvious fake -- the gun is more interesting anyway.
As a hypothetical exercise, could this kind of coverty GPS planting work? Let's say that the GPS beacon / transmitter is small enough to be mistaken for an insect's sting, so no bigger than a grain of sand. What then?
I don't believe for a minute that this is real, but I had no problem believing that various Three Letter Agencies would love to treat this as a prototype for devices they would like to build. How close are we to being able to approximate this with current technology?
Re:Fake can be just as good (Score:1)
- A 'GPS Bullet' small enough to be injected would not have any range to speak of. Atmospheric drag would stop it long before it got close to the target.
- If you can make a 'GPS Bullet'... Why spend any time/money developing a rifle? There are lots of ready-made rifles already available.
- If you insist on making a rifle, make it feasible. ie. not a crappy long-barrel pistol with a scope and a shoulder stock that will fold up whenever it is
Re:Fake can be just as good (Score:2)
But it's probably not
Re:Fake can be just as good (Score:2)
This [dpreview.com] do?
Re:Fake can be just as good (Score:2)
My one pointed observation is: FTP????? WTF?
Someone should explain to them that FTP sends everything, including login id and password, in the clear. So anyone with a good sniffer can intercept all your packets, assemble your pictures, and they also know your login id and password.
But I suppose what you'd do is use an anonymous login, with the ftp directory off in its own partition so your competitors can't brin
Timely Invention (Score:2)
[Note: I've had plenty of reservations all along about the US decision to invade Iraq and still believe it was not the right thing to do.]
Now that US Marines are confronted with some of the worst of all possible scenarios(*) this technology would be helpful.
(*) Namely, a large crowd of demonstrators, 97% comprised of unarmed civilians, wearing civilian clothes, has 3% composition of similarly-dressed individuals but toting Kalishnokov's and firing at the Marines.
Current option: Marines could start firin
Where's the crap-science filter? (Score:4, Informative)
Small projectiles are less stable. A projectile the size of a grain of sand could barely cross a room.
The kinetic energy required to overcome air friction would make the impact pretty serious, if you could magically overcome the instability problem, and magically make the tiny projectile carry that much kinetic energy without vaporising it.
As for tracking the thing, where's the transmit antenna? RFID tags have a short range, and they're a lot bigger than a mosquito-sized impact. No antenna means no signal range.
And as other posters have noted, there's no room for a power source, the GPS signals don't penetrate well, etc. etc.
Ardent Pedantry R Us,
Flumph
Re:Where's the crap-science filter? (Score:2)
Re:Where's the crap-science filter? (Score:2)
Re:Where's the crap-science filter? (Score:2)
Feel free (Score:1)
Doesn't the (Score:1)
On the Radio (Score:2)
Re:On the Radio (Score:2)
Snipped from the China Police link.
"His recent works has been created within the framework of his self-styled "sci-fi art" (or "fictionist") concept where he takes "an imaginary product from the future" and tests it out today, in a real environment.
He did this most notably in his MY DOOMSDAY WEAPON project where he created "the most horrible weapon in the world" (- a piece of "pre-crime technology" designed to mark demonstrat
Holy smokes.... (Score:2)
Sorry kids, it's a fake (Score:5, Informative)
My favourite use would be tagging girls in night clubs and then stalk them. So much easier than asking for phone numbers.
Great idea (Score:1)
Then again, why not a nude beach? Might as well have a good look at what you're going to get (take) before choosing...
Re:Sorry kids, it's a fake (Score:1)
A more plausible solution is to use paint (Score:1)
Probably not real, yet (Score:1)
And no, it's not going to use a real GPS transmitter.
But the implications of this even as a thought (and while not real I bet it -has- been proposed to government folks as a concept) strike right back at the heart of the RFID debate.
While RFID may not be strong enough via commercial application to track this more than a few dozen feet, I am sure that with the right amount of money a much more sensitive receptor could be engineered. Even if
okay, obvious fake (Score:2)
Unless there is some miraculous battery I don't know of, this is an obvious fake.
Endothem motor (Score:1)
I'm from Denmark (Score:3, Insightful)
I'll try to dig up a link with the real story about this.
Xel'Naga
Re:I'm from Denmark (Score:4, Insightful)
Kunstneren Jacob S. Boeskov, redaktør på 'Answering Machine', rejste i sommer til en våbenmesse i Kina under dække af at være våbenhandler. Med sig havde han billeder af det fiktive våben, ID Sniper. Artiklen om Kina-turen i Black Box beskriver, hvordan Jacob S. Boeskovs fiktive våben tiltrak sig så stor interesse på våbenmessen, at Boeskov til sidst var mere eller mindre ødelagt af frygt for at blive opdaget.
The artist Jacob S. Boeskov, editor at "Answering Machine", this summer travelled to a weapon-con (?) in China, pretending to be armsdealer. He brought pictures of a fake weapon, ID Sniper. The artikle about the trip to China in "Black Box" (Magazine, Xel.) tells who Jacob S. Boeskovs fictious weapon attracted great interest at the weapon-con, untill Boeskov was terrified if he was revealed.
Xel'Naga
Re:I'm from Denmark (Score:3, Insightful)
Click on "My doomsday weapon".
Xel'Naga
Mod Parent and Grandparent up (Score:2)
I'm a bit torn between marvelling at the genius and the stupidity of someone willing to pretend to be an international arms dealer for the sake of art and a few yuks.
Clearly this is just a concept (Score:2)
Major problems
It doesn't have to get power (Score:2)
So no you couldn't track someone with it as in james bond. You would need to place scanners in places like public transport entrances, hospitals, shops, banks, all the places people have to go. Then anyone you want can be easily tracked moving through the transmitters and arrested at your convenience.
I am reminded of a similar project several decades ago. It was a bit more primitive. It
BAHAHAHAHAAHAH (Score:2)
http://www.backfire.dk/EMPIRENORTH/newsite/produc t s_en002_instructions.htm [backfire.dk]
Notice how everybody in the instructions is white except for the one "suspicious" guy. These guys must have had a brain storm after watching Brazil [imdb.com].
But we all know... (Score:2, Funny)
GPS.... (Score:2)
http://www.phrack.org/show.php?p=60&a=13
It's not parody, it's art. (Score:4, Interesting)
Sorry folks, nothing to see here, move along, citizens.
art, blah blah blah. (Score:2)
I think it's more like journalism, or some kind of subversive research. As someone else pointed out, this isn't "nothing to see here". Your claim would seem to be the "Oh my god look at that horrible device" is the thing to see, and since it doesn't exist, forget about i
I just hope my wife doesn't get one! (Score:1)
Ladies and gents, it's a fake - Now with proof! (Score:2, Interesting)
Hoax: Admission by the Creator (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.backfire.dk/JB/indexreal.html [backfire.dk]
"Giant balloon sculptures, voodoo-cursed technology and blueprints for hi-tech weapons smuggled into Chinas first international weapons fair - in the world of Jakob S. Boeskov the amazing meets the political in a unique mix.
Coming from a background in comics, Copenhagen based artist Jakob S. Boeskov seems destined to work with satire and pastiche. Using a palette of different media such as web, paintings, writings, 3D drawings and animations, as well as collaborations with musicians, writers, voodoo priests (!) and industrial designers he "hacks and bends" media, reality and technology to give a startling and shocking view of life in the 21st century.
His recent works has been created within the framework of his self-styled "sci-fi art" (or "fictionist") concept where he takes "an imaginary product from the future" and tests it out today, in a real environment. He did this most notably in his MY DOOMSDAY WEAPON project where he created "the most horrible weapon in the world" (- a piece of "pre-crime technology" designed to mark demonstrators with GPS (Global Positioning System) chips "before the crime is committed"). Jakob S. Boeskov brought drawings of this weapon to China Police 2002, Chinas first international weapons fair, where the international weapons dealer elite and greeted this nightmarish weapon with much enthusiasm."
Happy April Fools Day, 11 days late!
Coming to an FPS near you (Score:1)
Tried (Score:2)
Here's the scoop: (Score:3, Informative)
For this daredevil project Jakob S. Boeskov infiltrated an armsfair in Beijing with "the ID Sniper - the worlds most horrible hi-tech weapon" Too fantastic to be true? No its not! Read parts of the story here:
In June 2002 Jakob S. Boeskov travelled to the belly of the dragon to meet the enemy eye to eye - infiltrating China Police 2002 the first international weapons fair in China. He brings with him four hundred fake business cards, a promotional poster of a horrible hitech weapon, and the worst stomach cramps ever. Tag along to the Kingdom in the Middle and meet robot salesmen, enthusiastic Chinese entrepreneurs and singing teenage policemen.
Basically, the idea was to come up with the most terrible weapon imaginable, and to test it in a real environment. We had three days to finish up the weapon. Our fake company, Empire North, already had a logo and a slogan ("The Logical Solution" aping the Nazi classic "The Final Solution") but we had no weapon yet. Genius designer Von B and I worked overtime, and in two days we had the ID Sniper ready.
The day before I was leaving, BLACK BOX editor Mads Brügger called designer Von B and asked him to change the design, because "it was too far out and he couldn't be responsible for what happened, if I was found out."
Changing was not possible at this late stage. I guess he knew that. Maybe he was just, more or less elegantly, trying to shake off his share of the burden. I can understand it, because we were all becoming afraid. Afraid of what would happen if I was found out, and afraid of what might happen if the weapon was taken seriously. Would it be copied? Would we be responsible for the production of one of the most inhumane weapons in the history of man? We justified our project by telling ourselves that right now, a few people were walking around with socalled VeriChips implanted in their bodies, chips manufactured by the company Applied Digital Solutions. We kept reminding ourselves that right, now prisoners in Sweden are doing time at home wearing GPS chip wristbands. It would merely be a question of time before the technology would be used preemptively on suspicious persons, and as we repeatedly told ourselves, all new technology has been used for military purposes, and this technology would too, we concluded. Why not bring it out prematurely, so at least we could have a small part in getting a thorough discussion about this kind of technology? With this question, we basically came up with a brand new art concept. Let's for now just call it scifi conceptual art, defined like this: take the essence of an imagined future, turn it into a concept and present this concept in present day reality. Report the reactions.
Would this new concept lead to a brave journey, searching for truth or would it just be a highly irresponsible prank? There was only one way to find out, and that was to do it.
This is how it was done.
FACTS
THE ID SNIPER RIFLE AS PRESENTED ON THE EMPIRE NORTH POSTER
GPS microchip based identification rifle
Empire North is proud to present the preliminary showcase of the ID Sniper Rifle a brand new tool in longterm riot control, and antiterror management. Please notice that some aspects of this cuttingedge technology are still in its outmost infancy, and more research is needed before the ID Sniper Rifle is a reality. Hence we are welcoming investors and business partners to join us in the important quest of developing the ID Sniper Rifle.
What is the ID Sniper Rifle?
To put it short, the idea is to implant a GPS microchip in the body of a human being, using a highpowered sniper rifle as the long distance injector. The microchip will enter the body and stay there, causing no internal damage, and only a very small amount of physical pain to the target. It will feel like a mosquito bite, lasting a fraction of a second.
At the same time, a digital camcorder with a zo
This cant be real.. (Score:2)
Their other product -- (Score:2)
"citizen narc"
This whole thing must be a joke....
Parody site link (Score:1)
Take a look at the link at the bottom of the JUJU instructions [backfire.dk] pointing to whitehouse.org/homeland [whitehouse.org].
Looks like hours of fun.
Non-lethal my ass (Score:2)
The GPS-tag gun is a joke... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just because you've been GPS-tagged doesn't mean you're guilty.
Should be used during car chases (Score:2)
Maybe police should tag the cars of those that run, then stop the chase. They could then track the car later at sane speeds.
People, this is fake (Score:1)
It's a spoof by a performance artist (Score:1)
Better way to tag protesters: (Score:1)
Taged, lasts at least a week, non-lethal (unless they drown), and if it's a vegtable dye also biodegradable.
If 'twere real (Score:1)
Re:this is absolutely horrible (Score:2, Insightful)
Just like in the Matrix... (Score:1)
Re:robo-shrimp in the stomach? (Score:1)
The first thing I thought of was the Matrix bug
-shpoffo