Melting Europa 698
amigoro writes "After having contaminated Earth's Oceans, it seems that there are plans to send a probe drilling through Europa's ice sheet and explore the purported ocean below the crust. The plan seems to be to find Life there. But I wonder how long the time lag will be between the probe finding life, and a leak in the radioactive heater wiping all of it out."
Question... (Score:4, Interesting)
Now This Article Isn't Heavy Handed... (Score:1, Interesting)
If you are so worried about the possible life under the crust on Europa, why not think about Earth for a minute! With all those microscopic organisms you are killing by just breathing, you should be ashamed of yourself! (Thank you Mr. Breathed...)
Re:Too funny. (Score:1, Interesting)
Polluting other planets (Score:5, Interesting)
I didn't agree. I've got a feeling this argument, while maybe not coming from a religious perspective, has a lot of the same concepts built in. Guess what, we humans, as a race, own everything in the solar system. It is ours to do with as we see fit... other planets are being wasted until we make full use of them for humanity as a whole. Until and unless I'm shown proof of life on another planet, and it would probably have to be a somewhat substantially high order of life, I'm going to argue that it's our position to decide the destiny of every bit of metal, gas and rock that's floating in orbit around our sun.
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Interesting)
If there is anything down there on Europa, it will probably eat the nuclear leakage for dinner and come back for seconds.
Re:Killing life... (Score:5, Interesting)
Bacterial contamination is a real danger to life and to accurate science on Europa and lake Vostok. It is extremely difficult to keep a robotic probe from carrying contamination since modern electronics can't take the extreme heat needed to kill resilient strains (which since they're so resilient would make them even more harmful). Scientists have been putting more effort into trying to figure out how to explore Europa [spacedaily.com] without contamination, but are having a tough time coming up with a solution.
Re:Europa in Radiation Belts? (Score:1, Interesting)
But the point is...? (Score:5, Interesting)
There are a few points which I would like clarified by someone who is perhaps knowledgeable. For one, landing a spacecraft on Europa, where we have little knowledge of its atmospheric conditions, will be a formidable challenge. (We've lost many Mars-intended missions due to that.) How can we plan for that?
Secondly, I don't think it's known how deep the ice goes? Is there a plan for if the ice is a foot thick? How about 10 feet? How about 1000?
Next, can we still transmit a signal back if we have to take a probe that far underwater?
Notwithstanding a Europan shark eating the probe, I think there are some serious scientific reasons to be concerned about the search for life on one of the solar system's most likely candidates -- and we should ask ourselves if we're taking the best approach for a multi-hundred-million dollar mission?
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:5, Interesting)
Except any life on Europa will have evolved away from that radiation since its protected by almost 20km of ice.
The real threat of any contamination from a probe is not so much from radiation as from heavy metals leaching into the environment, but then if the floor of the Europan ocean is anything like the black smokers [amnh.org] of Earth's oceans any life should be used to heavy metals.
Best wishes,
Mike.
Re:Question... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Europa is already highly radioactive! (Score:1, Interesting)
The neutrons are absorbed by the top molecular layer. Eventually they'll re-radiate (nuclear shielding material becomes radioactive itself eventually), and the next layer will become active, and so on, and so on.
Re:Killing life... (Score:2, Interesting)
Perhaps there's some biology nerds out there who can offer us some insight.
Re:Polluting other planets (Score:5, Interesting)
Eh, I've met athiests who oppose us colonizing space as well for the same reasons (minus the God part).
It has nothing to do with theology.
It has everything to do with this: --> People are, in general, fucking idiots.
I hope this helps. :-)
Was she at least good in bed?
Oh That's Right, Oil Percolates From Mantle! (Score:5, Interesting)
Biogenic assumes that living things die, are deeply buried in the crust, rot, and in so doing create various hydrocarbons. Abiogenic assumes that primordial material from the creation of the planet are cooked and rise into the crust. This theory posits that biological microfossils found in petroleum are leeched from the crust by the flow, rather than being one of the byproducts of biogenic rot.
Kooks like J. F. Kenney grasp at old research by a few Soviet geologist to claim that abiogenic reserves are being constantly replenished more quickly than even our current rate of extraction(1) [gasresources.net].
The vast majority of geologists would say that while research confirms that abiogenic formation of gaseous alkanes can take place in the Earth's crust, a comparison with the isotopic signatures of economically important gas reservoirs around the world suggests that abiogenic production is not a globally significant source of hydrocarbons (2) [nature.com].
Re:But the point is...? (Score:1, Interesting)
heating devices (Score:2, Interesting)
Some intersting stuff about Polonium-210 on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
"half a gram quickly reaching a temperature above 750 K" (476.85C)
"This isotope is an alpha emitter that has a half-life of 138.39 days."
"...nearly all alpha radiation can be easily stopped by ordinary containers and upon hitting its surface releases its energy..."
BTW Did anyone else see the picture of Susi the "melting probe"? lmao I wonder where they got the idea for the design of that! Does it vibrate too?
Re:It's Open Mic Night at the Astrophysics Lounge! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Scared? (Score:4, Interesting)
What do you mean, this isn't news? I've been waiting for someone to develop serious technology for a landing on Europa for quite some time now. Given that Europa is one big ocean and is the single most likely place in our solar system to find life (present planet excepted, of course) it's about time we thought about going there.
Now, the hippie spin on the word "radioactive"
NASA has been using Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators (RTGs) for decades on planetary probes and manned missions. The basic premise is this: a container holds some radioactive heavy metal, such as plutonium. Because the metal is decaying, it generates a bunch of heat. That heat is used with thermoelectric generators to create electricity, and the leftover heat (since the reaction is not not that efficient) is used in other ways, like keeping the astronauts warm. But here's the kicker: an RTG has never, ever failed on a space mission. Not once. It's been flown hundreds of times [doe.gov]. (Missions using RTGs have failed, but the RTGs themselves performed flawlessly every time.) Just because it's "nuclear" doesn't mean it's Chernobyl.
Re:Hmmmm. (Score:3, Interesting)
Hippy
Maybe not a hippy, but what in the world was the point of mentioning contaminated Oceans [sic]?
And why is that word capitalized?
Re:Killing life... (Score:2, Interesting)
BZZZT! Wrong! Thanks for playing. If you had read the Guardian article you would have found out that:
"In November 1969, Apollo 12 landed just 170 yards from Surveyor 3, a robotic craft that had achieved the first soft lunar landing by an American probe two-and-a-half years before."
Parts of the craft were recovered in sterile conditions and were studied back on Earth. Scientists found "between 50 and 100 living micro-organisms were extracted from the polyurethane foam insulation that covered its interior circuit boards... The astronauts ferried back the contents of a sneeze by a worker assembling Surveyor 3."
These were organisms that had been brought to the moon by the Surveyor 3 probe, not the astronauts. Not only that but they survived for years on the surface of the moon. So no, it is not easy to keep a robotic probe from having bacteria.