Nerve Cells Successfully Grown on Silicon 284
crabpeople writes "Researchers at the University of Calgary have found that nerve cells grown on a microchip can learn and memorize information which can be communicated to the brain. 'We discovered that when we used the chip to stimulate the neurons, their synaptic strength was enhanced,' said Naweed Syed, a neurobiologist at the University of Calgary's faculty of medicine."
Kinda cool (Score:5, Interesting)
Just like sci-fi. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm no Bill Joy (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a song that says, "It only takes a spark to get a fire going". So too is it true that it only takes a couple neurons to start synapsing. As these true neural webs become more complicated, it would be interesting to see if any kind of emergent behavior was evident.
Also, with the current political and scientific climate as it is, this could be the first step to replicating a nervous system without having to rely on fetuses for stem cells. It requires no human cloning and holds immense promise.
It would definitely be cool to have a couple of these chips implanted to enhance the base memory that we are kitted with at birth, that's for sure!
human computers or cybronic humans ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe it's time to admit that nature does a better job bruteforcing (OK , what else do you call SEX and EVOLUTION) the secrets of this world than all our mathematical precision.. (E=MC2
Other uses? (Score:5, Interesting)
If only they could find out how did the strength increase and wether we can do the same to the human body we can find a cure for most of the nervous system degradation diseases. Anybody have link to a more verbose article?
Re:yes i am paranoid. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Kinda cool (Score:5, Interesting)
Who knows, in a few decades we might have people deleting their childhood to store and smuggle hundreds of GB of information about the cure for a major epidemic that an evil pharmaceutical company is exploiting for profit.
Anyone read "Interface" by Stephen Bury? (Score:5, Interesting)
Chip embedded in politician's brain after a stroke - he goes on to be president.... v. spooky.
I would love to see alzheimer's patients helped with this. If it's a genetic disease, I'm up the creek and dropped me paddle a while back.
- Lnr
Re:"Communicated to the brain?" (Score:3, Interesting)
No it's not [duke.edu]
Re:The Future of Computing (Score:5, Interesting)
The difference here is that our brains use the 3rd dimension effectively (and also work in parallel, I think). Now I'm not sure if the latest breakthrough uses electro-chemical processes to communicate, but if it's faster than 200MHz, it definitely has huge potential.
Comment removed (Score:1, Interesting)
Reminds me of... (Score:4, Interesting)
"The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but we will meanwhile agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
Re:This could really upset international politics (Score:2, Interesting)
Solution for tinnitus sufferers? (Score:4, Interesting)
Tinnitus is a serious problem to a lot of people today, and it can have many causes, from various diseases/illnesses, to noise damage. It apparently has to do with the nerves in one's ear, so would this kind of research, might we finally see a way to actually treat tinnitus?
Until you get T, you don't realize how lucky people who can actually be in a quiet room without going mad are...
implants (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:The Future of Computing (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually the idea of "reflexes" is the same as electro-robots which can since objects by electrical load. That hot plate is nothing more than an over threshold input that cause electro-motor response. An electrical circuit could also be easily designed to include a little bit of fussy logic via a simple anolog circuit to achive the same thing.
So, equivalent mechanisms are not readily available for cpu based computing, but there are for ANN based computing. If we ever hope to match the basic capabilities of animals we can not just rely on cpu based computing, we also need ANN based computing for sensor preprocessing and feed back controlled motor function
Re:Kinda cool: Neurons vs. Transistors (Score:4, Interesting)
But it clearly would be folly to try to emulate a neuron using purely digital computing techniques. You're dealing with an analog mechanism that is pretty much a wire-or of many inputs feeding into a capacitor. This is very much an analog computing circuit; now the question is how efficiently you can do A/D-D/A conversion on this scale.
(And as I recall, the sciatic nerve running down your leg is a single cell with an axon over 1 foot long. Definitely some impressive stuff Mother Nature has concocted...)
Re:yes i am paranoid. (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not about getting more memory (Score:3, Interesting)
Predicted 1945(!) (Score:3, Interesting)
In the outside world, all forms of intelligence whether of sound or sight, have been reduced to the form of varying currents in an electric circuit in order that they may be transmitted. Inside the human frame exactly the same sort of process occurs. Must we always transform to mechanical movements in order to proceed from one electrical phenomenon to another?
Re:Hasn't this been done before? (Score:5, Interesting)
The hype surrounding this was insane mostly due to fact that everyone thought this was the true start to cybernetics. In the end, the hype died down, My dad's lab got a ton of grants and he got back to doing more research. Ironically enough, the most publicisied research that he did (the neuron on a chip) probably had the least impact.
Such is the world of science at times
So, yes, it's nothing new. Just repackaged.
Re:OT: evolution vs. bruteforcing vs. creation (Score:2, Interesting)
But from a logic point of view: If a generation with severel individuals, each of them with minor changes compared to it's ancestors, is born, for some individuals their changes will be an advantage, for some the changes are a disadvantage.
The weaker individuals will not spontanously die, but they might have fewer chidren or maybe only few of their children will survive. The stronger individuals will have more children, or if they have the same amount of children they are in a better position to feed their children / let them survive.
Thus, the next generation will still have some (few) individuals with the inherited weaknes plus some new minor changes and some (more) with the strength inherited plus some minor changes.
Now it is still possible, that one of the weaker individual is affected so positively by its changes that it is now the strongest among all of his generation.
Where is the flaw in my logic? Or does evolution theory realy exclude this scenario?
In a book (of course I don't have the title again.. grrrr...) describing the technical version of evolution I saw that the weaker results are still considered for further development, you just have to put more weight on the stronger results.
Re:Kinda cool: Neurons vs. Transistors (Score:2, Interesting)
I've always figured that the best design for a computer would be one that's able to "imagine". Since it would take too many transistors to emulate a neuron, maybe there's some other way to do it? Is binary the only way to compute?
Humans deserves more credits (Score:2, Interesting)
Modern science is a 400 - 500 years old thing. Nature had billion of year to reach the levels we see.
I think that the progresses we are achieving in the last 50 years are *really* impressive, and probably what we'll see in the next 50 years will be even more impressing. Sometimes humans deserves more credits IMHO.
this isn't a novel effect (Score:3, Interesting)
FYI, LTP is one of the most promising mechanisms proposed for explaining how long term memory works.
Input interface? (Score:3, Interesting)
Kind of like how people in "that movie" can learn how to fly a UH-1 in 3 seconds.
Now THAT ability would be cool.
Re:Software version (more than Boolean) (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, I think it can be done (or at least a partially working XOR.) Imagine a neuron with two inputs and an output. But these inputs are not both excitatory: one is excitatory and the other is inhibitory. So, input only from the excitatory branch produces an action potential, and input from both branches yields no output. Unfortunately, input from just the inhibitory branch would produce no output either.
Re:Kinda cool (Score:4, Interesting)
People get divorced and lose their families and free time due to the high demands of the current marketplace.
People needing to do more work each day take pills to reduce the need for sleep.
Employers needing to cut training costs develop the "Plug N Work" chip. When you get hired you are assigned a read only chip that has all of the companies policies, procedures, employee names, and specific work duties for each task.
Employers add wireless to the PNW chip to rapidly update corporate policies as they are implemented.
The tasks and skills for your job (doctor, lawyer, tech support, etc) are duplicated by a firm that sells the chips to your company. Your wage just became minimum because now ANYONE can walk off the street and perform the function.
Wireless communication reaches the brain level and we go from being worker drones to Borg drones. This eliminates the internal need for teleconferencing, e-mail, telephones, or bulletin boards. Your pr0n and Slashdot time at work become obsolete in the new order as everyone would know what you were doing.
Underground hackers develop technology to override The Companies' chip and deliver slashdot, goatse.cs, and pr0n unbidden to all recievers in the area.
George Orwells dream of the though police and ultimate revisionism become a reality.
But perhaps I'm just being paranoid.
Re:Kinda cool: Neurons vs. Transistors (Score:1, Interesting)
questions, questions (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it would be interesting to understand how a neural interface would 'feel'. What would a process based in ones and zeros feel like? How would the brain adapt to take advantage of the new processing capability? Would we be able to project our consciousness outside of our body in some kind of digital plenum (that may not be a visual experience at all, it could be an entirely abstract experience like blind person contemplating numbers or language). Would we be enabled to 'see' new phenomena if we integrate a chip into the visual cortex (we could hook our brain up to a radio telescope and see the entire electormagnetic spectrum)? What color would ultra-violet be if it became a part of the visual spectrum or is the brain incapable of seeing a color that is as yet unimagined? What would it be like to 'smell' or 'touch' light or gravity or computer processes. Would it be possible to add entirely new senses or reasoning structures to the mind. Could we augment our perception to allow us to be cognisent of additional dimensional properties in addition to the 3 dimenstion we can see now. Would our bodies ultimately be relevant to our consciousness or could this technology allow us to be unhinged from our physical being, what would that mean for religion and philosophy? Could a person be in more than one place at once? Would it be possible to integrate two people into one or transfer one person into another, what would that do to 'individuality' and 'memory'.
Just a few questions.
Re:Software version (more than Boolean) (Score:4, Interesting)