Diamond Age Coming Soon 404
Roland Piquepaille writes "In 'The many facets of man-made diamonds,' Chemical & Engineering News (C&EN) writes that synthetic diamonds are getting bigger and cheaper. An example: for Valentine's Day, you can buy a yellow colored man-made diamond, visibly indistinguishable from a natural one, for $4,000 per carat. This is a 30% discount when compared with a natural diamond. This very long article also says that if synthetic diamond makers are targeting the jewelry market first, these new products will have an impact on many other industries. Not only is it now possible to grow bigger diamonds, you also can choose their color. 'Colored diamonds, which are valuable and very rare, can be created by introducing carefully controlled elemental impurities into the stone,' says C&EN. For instance, nitrogen produces a yellow stone. Infusing boron into the growing diamond produces a blue gem. This overview contains some details, references and photos of men-made diamonds, but read the original article for even more technical explanations if you have the time."
If diamonds weren't a monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
$4000? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:If diamonds weren't a monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
Old article [theatlantic.com], from 1982, but quite revealing (I think there was a posting on this to Slashdot a few years back).
The diamond trade is not only a carefuly controlled monopoly, but the whole idea of diamonds being "rare" and "valuable" is a carefuly crafted (over almost 100 years) con on (mainly) Americans.
Re:Possible regulation? (Score:3, Insightful)
I find that it will be hard for a bunch of people who's primary interest in diamonds as bobbles being able to influence governments to regulate the industry. Especially since they have been getting occasional bad press due to associations with instabilities in Africa, for example.
There is alot of money at stake, but it is not for alot of people. Diamonds are a relatively small industry and they might be able to market them based on differentiation and authenticity, but I doubt that would really keep people in check from manufacturing man-made diamonds.
Diamonds have alot of properties that people have been unable to test. It has been to expensive, but as the man-made stuff is used to do things like do a "diamond-coating" of electronics. They are discovering all of these properties and incredible uses for them that noone have even considered. Maybe a diamond coated CPU perhaps?
Re:Possible regulation? (Score:5, Insightful)
You can bet that DeBeers will fight until the bitter end to preserve their diamond monopoly.
Let's hope they lose.
Re:If diamonds weren't a monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
The real money isn't in jewelry (Score:5, Insightful)
The point of buying a diamond... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:The point of buying a diamond... (Score:3, Insightful)
Chris
Date of bitter end (Score:5, Insightful)
The bitter end will come in 2023, when Apollo Diamond's U.S. patents on chemical vapor deposition are scheduled to expire.
Re:Possible regulation? (Score:3, Insightful)
So every other country actually benefits financially by participating in the synthetics market.
Check into the history of porcelain. Same deal.
KFG
Re:I heard an interview on NPR with one of the (Score:3, Insightful)
Granted, this is a flawed analogy.
Jewelry isn't the best part-- (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:If diamonds weren't a monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
He got the machines from Russia.
I'll be damned that now, at least according to the initial listing on
They are all greedy pigs.
Folks, next time you need to buy diamonds, buy from each other. I don't believe for a second that the "new" diamonds you buy in stores are often used ones anyway. We all have realatives who are passing on who's diamonds can be sold to one another.
There is room for a business that independantly verifies quality and clarity when you are buying it not in person...
So what's the betting (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The point of buying a diamond... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are plenty of better ways to show that you're willing to spend money on someone (how exactly does this relate to love again?) that are actually useful, or that could be just as, if not more, romantic (Paris for two for a week?)
Re:Possible regulation? (Score:3, Insightful)
The synthetic diamond manufacturers have already agreed in principle to mark their diamonds. The one firm will engrave some acronym (what, I've forgotten), and the other is in discussions as to what to engrave.
But this idea you have that an industry would lobby government to prevent what's essentially generic competition is ridiculous.
I mean, the legislature would never write, the executive would never sign, laws to, for instance, force you buy a printer manufacturer's *cough* Lexmark [miami.com] *cough* replacement cartridges by calling generic replacements a violation of some Draconian Misapplied Copyright Abuse.
That's unpossible!
I would never buy a diamond (Score:5, Insightful)
As a geek, I prefer fake stuff anyhow. (Score:2, Insightful)
I understand and appreciate the amount of labor involved in digging "real" gems out of the ground - and this adds to the intrinsic value of those things. [Of course there is some monoplistic markup, too, but that is not the point.] At the end of the day, the utility of a material good is what counts. Just about any other kind of stuff you can think of gets cheaper all the time [adjusted for inflation] - why shouldn't diamonds? [Boo Hoo, De Beers... Boo Hoo RIAA... both of you have distribution models being upset by technology]
In general, I like machine-made, manufactured goods anyhow. I don't really care for artsy-crafty things. Would you rather have a robot-built flow-soldered TV, or some hand-made thing made by the local hobbiest?
"Fake" diamonds are still diamonds - just without all the human toil to get them (and without natural imperfections!) Why should my gems be any different? [Even most "art" - I can enjoy and appreciate copies. Why do I need the original? Heh, if you like some of my programming, I'll sell you the original bits if you like.] How long before they manufacture gems with imperfections so that they seem more natural?
Here is a question I have always had - if you have something that is atomically/chemically/perfectly identical to something else - why isn't it the same? Where do you draw the line? Mfg carbon crystal = diamond. Why is a conterfeit gold coin worth less than a "real" gold coin, if they are both made out of gold and struck with the same dies? Makes you wonder about printed currency. What if you fake the bits that represent my bank account? Now I am getting waaay OT...
thats just silly, (Score:5, Insightful)
Heck ADM and its competitors were in a global plot to keep lycean (spelling) prices high for years and they weren't killing people, so just think how far DeBeers would go. \
Assuming that the diamonds are not rare at all as most of us know, what then is the point of making them? They are only cheaper then the inflated price but would most likely be more expensive if people knew the truth about diamonds. IMHO anyways.
Re:If diamonds weren't a monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
Send a picture of your sweetheart off with $4,000 and in a month or so you'll get back a 3/4 carat diamond the exact same color of her eyes. I have a hard time believing that the fact that it wasn't "natural' would really set somebody off because after all it is still a diamond and not only that, but it is her diamond.
These people could make a fortune.
Re:If diamonds weren't a monopoly (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Then inform your girlfriend that her 'real' one (Score:4, Insightful)
Kimberly Process. [kimberleyprocess.com] It is being taken very seriously in the trade, and for very selfish reasons, as well as ethical ones. The idea of children with their legs cut off does not sell diamonds. The diamond industry has made every effort to sort it out. Compare our attitude to that of the clothing industry while they continue to use third world slave labour.
The trouble with "flawless" as a goal (Score:5, Insightful)
Expect PR campaigns emphasizing "the natural flaws of diamonds".
Re:The point of buying a diamond... (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly. By the time you get to where the advertisers are telling you that a $4,000 diamond is appropriate, people ought to be thinking in terms of "our" money, not "his" money or "her" money (with apologies to couples of the same sex). Side note -- counselors say that if you can't bring yourself to think of it as "our" money, and agree in general on financial priorities, your relationship has an excellent chance of failing. Somehow, spending $4,000 of "our" money on a diamond, which was going to spend most of its time in a safe-deposit box because you have to be nuts to walk around with that much in easily stolen/fenced goods on your finger, seemed like the wrong thing to do. Take a romantic trip, save towards a house, pay off some of your school loans, start a college fund for your kids, buy a new television; there have to be a zillion things that are more important to a couple starting out than a $4,000 diamond.
Human rights benefits. (Score:5, Insightful)
I, for one, would pay a premium for a diamond's profits went to high-tech inventors instead of to slave owners.
Totally missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Rarity in fashion is a strange thing; the cost of the object becomes an inherent part of the value -- it's not that the object is worth some certain amount, it's that the acquisition of it was so horrifyingly expensive and difficult that only a very precious few could achieve it. To gift someone with the results of this effort -- that's a sign of significance.
This might seem difficult to comprehend, so let me jump domains for a moment. What's the value of a moon rock? I mean, it's just rock from the moon; we could probably synthesize something chemically identical trivially. Ah, lets say you got an award, and were given the moon rock as a prize. Tell me you wouldn't show it off to everyone.
Same sh*t -- only difference is, instead of the cost being that of a trip to the moon, the cost is an enormous amount of one's savings. The price of diamonds is set high enough to be interesting but low enough to be possible.
It has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the value of the rocks themselves.
--Dan
Re:Then inform your girlfriend that her 'real' one (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, Krups made gas chambers for the third reich, but they still make a badass espresso machine; GE's weaponry has killed more men than measles. Most sizable corporations which have been around long have a checkered past. While I'm mentioning the third reich, I guess I oughta bring up Mercedes and Volkswagen, too.
I'm not sure what my point was in general, but I'm pretty sure that in general, the odds of getting a diamond which came from someone you don't want to support are far too high. I know there are diamonds which are certified to have been processed without ruining anyone's lives, but in general the industry is overinflated because of the actions of some terrible ruthless people, and I'm committed to avoiding natural diamonds at this point. Especially when the artificial ones are going to be cheap as hell and distinguishable from the natural ones mostly because their quality will be higher.
Thanks DeBeers (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Coke and Pepsi (Score:2, Insightful)
Please, call them by their proper name....blood diamonds. Nothing more, nothing else.
Re:The point of buying a diamond... (Score:1, Insightful)
Yes. Exactly. The meaning of a gift is, "I give this to you because it makes you happy, despite the fact that it has zero inherent utility. That is because my desire to see you happy is more important to me than any other consideration."
If she wants a diamond, she gets a diamond. If she wants honey mustard dressing, she gets honey mustard dressing. It's all the same thing.
When she says, "I want this," the only acceptable answer is, "Okay."
Guys who are in love understand this. Guys who never have been, don't.
Tell her (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Poster doesn't have a girlfriend! (Score:3, Insightful)
bah I say, bah! and bah again! (Score:2, Insightful)
however, for them to waste this on the jewelry industry is what bothers me, the fact that now we can create diamond is something we need to embrace because we can now make diamond-tipped drills and saws cheaper, and can make quality car parts, (aka, racing parts for real muscle cars) etc.
That's where the money is.
of course, people do like shiny things so jewelry will prolly suffice, all I say is that it's a giant waste of a new source of one of the toughest elements in nature.
$4000 for an artificial diamond?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Possible regulation? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Possible regulation? (Score:2, Insightful)
They can go fuck themselves.
I HATE IT when people think small... (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure right now these guys are pricing their rocks at Thou$and$ per Carat because they are trying to wrestle up enough venture capital to push to bigger and better production levels in the future.
Now let's try to see beyond the shiny bling blings and see where this technology is gonna take us in the next few decades.
How much would Uncle Sam be willing to pay for a Solid Diamond Tank? Or for that matter a diamond-clad warhead for an anti tank missile? Potentially it'll become possible to "grow" enormous sizes and oddball shapes virtually as easily as we press out fiberglass today. I wonder how easily automobiles with diamond structural components can pass NHSA crash tests? How about replacing home and business windows with diamond sheets instead of tempered glass?
The potential applications are mind boggling to say the least. Undoubtedly the production costs will come down as the technology matures and by the time the patents expire we'll start seeing diamond consumer junk on every shelf. The jewelry industry better sell off its stockpiles while they can for whatever price they can get cause in a few decades a 5 carat diamond will be about as valuable as a 70's era mood ring.
The only real downside I can see about this is how do we dispose of obsolete diamond artifacts when we're done with them? How do you scrap 30 sq. ft. sheets of obsolete diamond window glass?
Personally I'd love to own a chunk of Apollo right now, but they haven't announced an IPO yet. Shiny eye candy and IC wafers are just the beginning of a materials revolution that's gonna blow a hole in conventional industry in a few years, and we're standing here babbling about shiny chunks of glass-like material that we overpay for in the hopes of getting laid
markup comparison of synthetic and natural (Score:1, Insightful)
Yet what many don't know is that in bulk, normal diamonds have even more of a markup at least from source. So if we are going to limit ourselves to the jewelry market then basically you are looking at competing with the cartels like Debeers. Better charge extra to keep the legal and physical goons away.
Even if you wave a sign that says "We are only building up capital for computing industry use" you will still not get off easy from the jewelry mafia.
So, will computing also include light shows so that soon you can wear diamonds with "diamond LED's"?
Re:DeBeers (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:DeBeers (Score:2, Insightful)