NASA Prepares to Open Source Code 330
comforteagle writes "According to this story at O'Reilly, NASA is looking for approval for their own open source license. The NASA submitter (lawyer of course) states that none of the current licenses meet their needs, but more interesting is that NASA needs a license at all. It makes one wonder what we, and other space agencies, might see coming out off NASA. It's also nice to see code that taxpayers paid for anyway being released for their use too. There must be at least one slashdotter who could dream up a use for NASA software. X Prize participants maybe?"
Government Copyright (Score:4, Insightful)
I thought all goverment programs were automatically uncopyrighted, not even public domain? Like they were completely outside of the copyright system.
Absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
Absolutely there is. I can think of a number of potential applications of NASA image processing software to our research in neuroscience. Right now, we are having to either purchase code written for the GIS markets to do what we want, custom write routines in a language such as IDL, or get some computer science graduate students to work for us custom creating code. We are doing the first two and I am going to start recruiting CS grad. students next week, but things might go a lot faster if we already had a source code base to start with.
Old? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:NASA, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Until that point in time, treat NASA with some respect.
Not limited to space applications, by any means! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Government Copyright (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Government Copyright (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Old? (Score:5, Insightful)
NASA does a lot of stuff, and much of it is indeed cutting-edge. Don't discount this so quickly.
Re:Public Doman. (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:no GPL (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:no GPL (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be flat out wrong for tax supported software to be made and then not be able to be used by businesses that helped pay for the software.
Re:Sweet! (Score:2, Insightful)
Liscence??? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Government Copyright (Score:5, Insightful)
From Section 201, Copyright Act of 1976
(a) Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. The authors of a joint work are co-owners of copyright in the work.
(b) In the case of a work made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared is considered the author for purposes of this title, and, unless the parties have expressly agreed otherwise in a written instrument signed by them, owns all of the rights comprised in the copyright.
Re:Sad (Score:3, Insightful)
And as I was just looking at the Windows 95 source to fix a few of those annoying bugs I was thingking, "Good thing Microsoft used the BSD TCP/IP stack, otherwise they'd have gone broke trying to sell an OS that 'didn't do the internet' and their code wouldn't be open source."
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be offensive. It's an important point about licensing we should all understand.
Yes, you can check out the BSD TCP/IP stack source.
No you cannot see how Micorsoft ported it to work with Windows 95. So no, the code in Win 95 is not open. Should the problems that piece of code porting presented come up again somewhere else, someone will sweat re-inventing similar solutions. Effort duplication.
So I guess I'm saying that the GPL & LGPL are good enough for me.
Re:ITAR ITAR ITAR (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course it would be nice if they'd realize that a Real Time Embedded OS is not a munition or a satellite control system itself. I understand them not wanting to release the apps that run on it, but surely they could contribute most of the patches to the kernel that they use.
Why a license at all? (Score:3, Insightful)
Not free software (Score:3, Insightful)
Software, is requested to register with NASA by visiting the following
website...
I doubt this statement satisfies the open-source definition. I am *certain* that it doesn't satisfy the Debian Free Software definition, because it fails both the "desert island" and the "chinese dissident" tests.
Stupid Question? (Score:3, Insightful)
LS
This is not open-source (Score:5, Insightful)
I've read the license quickly and I can definitely say that section 3F will cause problems. Requiring registration does not meet the open-source definition, nor the Debian free software guideline. It discriminates people who either 1) do not have access to the Internel (the "desert island" test) 2) people who can't say they are using the software (the "chinese dissident" test). It also prevents any inclusion in a distribution because it implies that merely buying a Linux distribution that includes the software requires you to register it. If you forget, you are breaking the law (just imagine if all software was released under this license).
Last thing, by requiring registration, this license seems to cover the *use* of the software, going even further that what copyright law requests. The GPL gives you rights that copyright law alone does not give you (e.g. right to redistribute the code), but it does not *remove* rights (line the right to use the software without telling anyone). This also means that to be valid, the license would actually have to be signed (hence it becomes a contract). The GPL (or other free software licenses) does not require that since it only gives you additional rights (if you don't agree to the GPL, you still have all rights provided by copyright laws).
Re:Absolutely (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I really, really really want and need the famed VISAR (Video Image Stabilization and Registration) software. This was used recently by to improve the quality in the security camera video in the recent abduction and murder of Carlie Brucia [baltimoresun.com].
"Commercialized by Intergraph"? Where's my check from Intergraph then? If it was developed with tax dollars, it should be open sourced so it can be commercialized (or not) by everyone. That will have the most salutary effect on the economy - not one, but dozens of companies improving the quality of video.
Re:Government Copyright (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Old? (Score:4, Insightful)
In my experience, the opposite is true. Older code is generally leaner, more stable, and much tighter than newer code.
Crap code tends to get weeded out, and good code tends to stick. Witness many of the key parts of Unix which have remained largely unchanged for decade(s).
Why change what is clearly working well?
There's a perception in the computing industry that "old==bad" and "new==good". But in many areas, the opposite is clearly true.
Security algorithms, for example. Only when an encryption algorithm has been out for a while, beaten up, tested, reviewed, and studied by many peers will people begin to trust it.
There's always the risk of a short-cut to decrypting any algorithm, so, in general, the older ones are nearly always better.
But let's put it to the test... You're getting a pacemaker on which your life will depend. Do you prefer the 15 year old software that has an installed base of many thousands, or the new stuff that just came out last month?
Re:This is not open-source (Score:5, Insightful)
IANAL, but 3F is phrased as a request, not a requirement. So they ask that people that use their software (or enhance it) let them know, but aren't conditioning the license on them doing so. I'd guess that since it can be ignored, it doesn't really belong in the license, but it doesn't do any harm there.
Almost a dumb comment (Score:3, Insightful)
My first reaction was along the lines of "hunh?? Is he kidding"
I could easily see a lot of interesting things coming out of NASA labs and projects...
Re:space agencies in other countries too? (Score:5, Insightful)
The reality of the situation is, the iss orbit is not where it is to 'satisfy the Russians', it's to satifsy the laws of physics. There are two ways to achieve an on orbit rendevous, the first is to go charging up to orbit, and then later maneuver the orbit to match that of the target. This can be hugely wasteful in terms of energy expended in maneuvering. The second method is to wait for the target object to be on an overhead pass, so that a pure ballistic trajectory can take you directly from launch to the on orbit rendevous. This is the most efficient method of launch, allows the maximum payload delivery for a given launch vehicle.
The ISS orbit is determined by simple ballistics. It's where it is to provide maximum availability of direct launch windows from the Kennedy Space Center AND the Balkinor launch facilities. With shuttles all parked in the garage, I suspect there's a lot of folks at nasa today that are quite thankful for the decision to place ISS in an orbit that provides equal accessibility for the Soyuz and Progress vehicles. With no shuttle missions bringing up the groceries, it's very important that those progress launches pack in every possible pound of payload when they do get sent up.
Like everything else in life, ISS decisions are often a big compromise, most compromises are driven by physics, others by politics. To many uninformed folks, much of the decision making driven by physics appears to be political, because they dont understand the reality of the situation. Orbit selection for ISS was not chosen to 'satisfy the russians', but to optimize availability of resources in many scenarios. Lack of shuttle availability was one of those scenarios, and today it's reality. The ISS orbit is skewed a little from optimum shuttle inclinations due to the lifting capacities of the progress vehicles. With 20/20 hindsight, this was a brilliant decision. At the time, it appeared political to americans. It wasn't, it was driven by the need to have contingencies available in the event of prolonged periods of unavailble shuttles. We are currently a year into one of those periods.
Re:Sad (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:no GPL (Score:3, Insightful)
How is it "stealing"? If it was released to the public, you can light your candle from it and the corporations can light their candles from it. You aren't robbed of light if someone else has it also. I think they should be able to do what they want with their copy. Or are you really just some sort of "IP" shill?