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Space Science

Mars Race Heats up Further 51

Posted by michael from the canadians-in-space dept.
anzha writes "It seems what was once the province of the superpowers is no longer so. ESA and the Japanese attempted their own Mars orbiters (successfully and not, respectively). The Brits fired off Beagle 2 and are talking of going for Beagle 3. Now the Canadians are talking about a probe for Mars in 2011. How long before we see the Japanese and Russians try again? Might India or China take a stab at it as well?"
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Mars Race Heats up Further More

Mars Race Heats up Further

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  • Ugh, not a good thing (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    People seem to forget that Mars is not that big of a planet (less than half the size of Earth.) At this rate we'll soon have the whole damn place littered with the remnants of our missions (successful and failed.) We already have problems with space junk in LEO, how long will it be before we have problems with "Mars junk" and will it jeopardize future missions? I'm not an environmentalist or anything but I'd rather not lose a future science mission because it collided with Japan's 2006 Rover Mark VI on land
    • Mars may not be a large planet, but it has roughly the same land area as Earth.

      • Re:Ugh, not a good thing (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Tenfish ( 748408 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:14PM (#8202745)
        Oh, and another thing.

        Don't get too attached to this planet, or Mars either. Someday, we're going to be building gigantic structures in space. We'll be using the energy equivalent of many many stars total output. If you think that we're going to leave a planet in one piece, you're mistaken.

        The ultimate future of Earth and Mars, and all the other planets in our system, is that they will be complete dissassembled for raw materials.

        How will the world end? In fire? In ice? More like in a bunch of tiny pieces that were smelted into raw metals.
        • The ultimate future of Earth and Mars, and all the other planets in our system, is that they will be complete dissassembled for raw materials.p. im from earth you insensitive clod.

        • Re:Ugh, not a good thing (Score:5, Interesting)

          by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Friday February 06, 2004 @06:20PM (#8207116) Homepage Journal
          How will the world end? In fire? In ice? More like in a bunch of tiny pieces that were smelted into raw metals.

          While I see your point, I hope it wouldn't come to that. I don't have a problem dismantling "dead" planets like Mercury and Mars, maybe even Venus, and certainly the asteroids.

          But the Earth has so many unique features that you can't preserve outside an Earth-sized gravity well. You're not going to be able to recreate Yellowstone's hot springs and geysers on the surface of a Dyson Sphere, for example.

          On the other hand, there's the .sig I see here on Slashdot: Earth First! We'll strip-mine the other planets later...
          • "You're not going to be able to recreate Yellowstone's hot springs and geysers on the surface of a Dyson Sphere, for example."

            Yellowstone's springs and geysers are already choked with crap from people throwing their laundry in to see it come out clean.

            Other than the rape of the American continent which will finish long before we're building Dyson Spheres, though... point taken.

        • The ultimate future of Earth and Mars, and all the other planets in our system, is that they will be complete dissassembled for raw materials.

          Possible, though I would hope that if our inheritor species reach such a level of technology, they would by that time have developed long-term thinking and ecological concerns, and would let Earth lie "fallow" to possibly develop new intelligent species. (See David Brin's "Earthclan" novels for some interesting ideas.

          But I'd say it's about 50/50 at best as to wh

    • Re:Ugh, not a good thing (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bluGill ( 862 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:20PM (#8202803)

      You obviously fail to realize just how large the earth is. 1/2 the size of the earth is still a lot of land. Come to think of it, 2/3s of the earth is covered by water, so if you restrict landers to only land, there is more room on Mars. (assuming we accept your numbers, I don't feel like checking them and they sound right).

      Space junk is a problem in orbit because it is moving very fast. Space junk on Mars is not moving. Everybody will avoid the functioning rovers, because there is a lot of area to cover so it is best to cover something far away. You wouldn't make claims about the goegraphy of the earth based on only samples from your backyard, and you don't make claims about Mars from samples from one area, you try to cover them all.

  • Lessons learned vrs need to learn (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SpaceLifeForm ( 228190 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:04PM (#8202620)
    I can see others trying, but also not.

    Based upon the lessons learned from prior missions, others could be encouraged. But, based upon the numerous failures, just as easily discouraged. Then when you factor in the costs involved, you certainly can argue against it.

    What Spirit and Opportunity discover will probably be the main factor.

  • Hopefully it doesn't turn into a collaboration (Score:4, Insightful)

    by follower_of_christ ( 626504 ) <phatcoder@yahoo.com> on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:21PM (#8202812)
    I would love to see the ESA, China, Japan, India, England, or whoever else provide the US with more of the same competition. I believe it will poke at the pride that the US public and motivate us to work harder and be more ethical. Without ethics/integrity a society stagnates (As we are seeing today). With competition like this the US public has a reason to rally and refine itself to attempt to be the best. WIthout this competition we stagnate.

    I applaud the rest of the world for becoming competitors in the space rafe and giving the US a new determination.

  • Why not (Score:5, Funny)

    by n.o.d.y.n.e ( 747945 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:21PM (#8202813)
    Might India or China take a stab at it as well?

    Maybe they can out-source the labour to the West!

  • Hope the Japanese rethink this (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ObviousGuy ( 578567 ) <ObviousGuy@hotmail.com> on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:21PM (#8202818) Homepage Journal
    With the North Korean situation the Japan and indeed the entire Asian penninsula faces, it would probably be wise of them to forego a true space program for the timebeing. It's bad enough that North Korea is already nervous about every flinch of the peace negotiators, how much more willing would they be to simply shut down the talks if Japan decided to launch a inter-planetary missile not 500 miles away from Pyongyang?

    Leave launches to the Indians and Russians for now. When North Korea finally comes around to join the rest of us in the modern, civilized world there will be plenty of time for space exploration.
    • The Apollot program happened during one of the darkest wars in US history. They also launched their failed probe within the last couple of years and NK didn't freak out any more than usual.

      I say Japan should go forward full force. Waiting for NK to get its act together could take centuries, seriously. No point waiting for those dolts to get it together while Japan could become one of the first multiplanet nations.

      Let the land grab begin. The more, the merrier.

  • Right.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by FroMan ( 111520 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:25PM (#8202858) Homepage Journal
    China: Going to the moon and mars ===> \. Yeah, take that US!
    India: Going to the moon and mars ===> \. Yeah, take that US!
    Japan: Going to the moon and mars ===> \. Yeah, take that US!
    ESA: Going to the moon and mars ===> \. Yeah, take that US!
    BFE: Going to the moon and mars ===> \. Yeah, take that US!
    <random 3rd world country>: Going to the moon and mars ===> \. Yeah, take that US!

    US: Going to the moon and mars ===> \. Never going to happen. It's only political showmanship.

  • Smart Alex Answer (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:29PM (#8202903)
    Might India or China take a stab at it as well?"

    They're too busy to fool with this. They have jobs.

  • Interesting how the Chinese didn't even have a viable space program until the previous Administration allowed export of the appropriate technology. Considering the earlier accusations that the Chinese government illegal contributed to his 1996 reelection, I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't able to compete with us in the race to Mars.

    But, why do I get visions of "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World?"

    • Interesting how the Chinese didn't even have a viable space program until the previous Administration allowed export of the appropriate technology.

      In point of fact, Clinton only followed Reagan and Bush the First's policy of allowing dual-use technologies to be soldto China. As with most of the right wing's charges against Clinton, this one doesn't hold water.

      (Which doesn't change that he's a rat bastard who, in any sane society, would have long ago been institutionalized for the protection of himself

  • Wal-Mart (Score:5, Funny)

    by rixstep ( 611236 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:39PM (#8203022) Homepage
    We bought a water rocket kit from Wal-Mart. We're launching in April, hopefully on the first. Target: Io, moon of Jupiter. Finally anyone can enjoy the thrill of space exploration.

  • This will all come to a climax of hilarity when they reach the two rocks crossing in the shape of an X on the surface of Mars.

  • Canada's Mars Mission Site (Score:5, Informative)

    by Leif_Bloomquist ( 311286 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @01:53PM (#8203229) Homepage
    Odd that the article didn't link to this.

    http://www.marsrocks.ca [marsrocks.ca]

  • Canadian Space Agency == Geeks? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Jorkapp ( 684095 ) <jorkapp@nOSpAm.hotmail.com> on Friday February 06, 2004 @02:19PM (#8203530)
    Slashdot:
    Now the Canadians are talking about a probe for Mars in 2011.

    Website Link:
    ...the CSA is interested in receiving include an orbiter, a single lander, or a network of small landers.
    Imagine that. A Beowolf cluster of Mars Landers. I wonder if they would run on linux?
    • ...the CSA is interested in receiving include an orbiter, a single lander, or a network of small landers.

      Did anyone else read that as "nework of small ladders"?

      Sometimes low-tech is the way to do it, but I'm not so sure about this time...

  • Just what we need (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kippy ( 416183 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @02:25PM (#8203616)
    I keep hearing people saying that a new space race won't start because the cold war is over.

    What this is shaping up to be is a land grab which should be healthy for Mars exploration. Here's hoping. There's a lot of land up there to grab. Now let's get those crazy space treaties rewritten by some people who aren't "citizen of the world" hippies.

  • Why Not the UNSA? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DynaSoar ( 714234 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @02:28PM (#8203670) Journal
    I think all space programs should be collected under the United Nations as the United Nations Space Agency. The ESA serves as an example. Cooperation would accomplish more for more people than competition.

    Oh sure, there'd be lots of collisions between agendas and between individuals. That's to be expected. But when it happens those responsible should me marked for replacement rather than placation. It's time we grew out of that sort of nonsense and space exploration is the perfect venue for that.

    If the US and the USSR can come together in the Apollo-Soyuz project, surely today's more enlightened countries can set aside differences much less than mutually assured nuclear destruction.

    The major problem would be the same problem NASA has: professional administrators and politicians. When engineers ran things we got to the moon. When managers ran things we got "My God, Thiokol, what do you want me to do, wait until April?" and no more Challenger.

    Space exploration should be the right, responsibility and heritage of all humanity, not just those who can pry enough GNP away to put together their own team. This is not sports, this is science, and if done right, a chance to evolve socially as a planet.

    • Re:Why Not the UNSA? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by kippy ( 416183 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @02:39PM (#8203880)
      Ths ISS is a scandal partly because it was built by a committee, not a group focused on one clear definable goal ("let's build a space station" doesn't count). The last thing humanity needs is to unite and therefore bind at the feet, the world's space agencies.

      Almost everything great done in space was the result of competition. We need more of that, not less. If no one feels any pressure to work toward a goal harder, you will have engineers and administrators world-wide leaning on their shovels for decades to come as they we continue to be bound in low Earth orbit.
      • kippy (416183) sez: "Ths ISS is a scandal partly because it was built by a committee, not a group focused on one clear definable goal ("let's build a space station" doesn't count)."

        The ISS wasn't built by a committee, it was built by 3 of them: the US space agency, the Russian space agency, and the group of administrators and politicians from both sides tasked with making the other kids take turns and play nice. This last group spent so much time and energy placating nationalistic spoiled brats and making

        • Having multiple programs will produce massive redundancy. It would cost everyone much less and accompish far more if they worked together.

          While I'm sure that there will be quite a lot of redundancy in the competing programs, I have to say multiple space programs will also produce multiple different solutions to the same problem. This will lead to innovation, and efficiency as inefficient solutions fall by the wayside. If you are all focusing on one single solution then chances are that it will be missing ma

    • Of course the UN never has problems with beaurocracy or political expediancy overriding logic or good sense or even ethics and morals when deciding what to do [newsmax.com]. They never have problems respondingly quickly and adequately to problems that pop up [fsmitha.com]. The UN always acts in the best interest of humanity [unwatch.com]. And, as we all know, pigs can fly. So armed with these facts, your idea will be the greatest boon to space exploration our planet has ever seen. ...

      Competition is what drove the space industry to great heights. L

  • Canadian mars probe (Score:4, Funny)

    by Angst Badger ( 8636 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @03:16PM (#8204438)
    Now the Canadians are talking about a probe for Mars in 2011.

    They do know that liquid beer can't exist under Martian atmospheric pressures, don't they?
    • You don't understand. The purpose of the Canadian Mars probe will be to determine if beer has ever existed on Mars, or if conditions favorable to the brewing of beer ever existed on Mars. To avoid possible contamination the probes will be assembled in special "sober-rooms" by foreign immigrants. Special instruments on the probe's robotic arm will include a MoisonBrador spectrometer and a 2000ml Erienmeyer yeast culturing flask.
  • It's aboot damn time, eh?

    Seriously, gl to my northernly neighbors.

    And to the US in general, are we gonna sit back and let all these stupid countries pass us by? I say hell no, time for us to get out of slumber mode and kick everyone's ass again. Nothing like a bit of competition :)

  • How About The US? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheFlyingGoat ( 161967 ) on Friday February 06, 2004 @03:55PM (#8205085) Homepage Journal
    While it's great that these other countries are providing some type of competition for the US, we have a pretty big edge for Mars right now. Only a handful of other countries have been able to get in orbit around Mars so far (Russia and the EU?), and isn't the US the only one to get a working rover on the surface (3, in fact?). Now that we have a proven method for getting rovers to the surface, I don't doubt that we'll be sending quite a few more in the near future. We'll have the most survey information about the surface, the most scientific data, the most proven methods, and are the only country that has successfully put a man on another celestial object... that sure would give us a head start for a manned mission.

    Good luck to the rest of you countries... I hope you catch up to make it more interesting. :)
  • We all know that by 2011 Canada will be invaded and will become the 53rd state. I like the plan... make promises to spur on the rest of the world that you don't have to keep!
  • It's Reigel in the lead with his giant Mars robot pounding up the ridge behind the new Martian base. Quark takes over on the descent as they enter the power station. He tries to take a sortcut through the archway. Ohhh, that's gotta hurt. He's burried in an avalanch of loose bolders. Tyroid comes up from behind as they move out to the volcanic plains. He powers up and zooms into the lead. Now into the quary and the racers split. Reigel takes the center road, while Zeek takes the low road to the right and Do
  • How about trying to land a man on the sun? It's safe as long as we send him up at night.
  • Seven years ago, due to budget constraints at the Canadian Space Agency, a decision was made to use the latest nanobot technology to save weight and allow quantity instead of quality. The objective of deciding if Martian soil would be suitable for nanobot procreation was deemed satisfactory.

    Launched from a hot-air balloon, powered by the most useful emissions from Ottawa, the probes closely approached the edge of the atmosphere where a giant sneeze sent all 50 of the little buggers far enough out into spac

  • Why don't they just fake it like the moon landing? I'm sure photoshop has advanced some over the past few decades. :)

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