Neural Feedback Training as Therapy for ADHD? 864
"If you haven't heard of it, the idea is that by attaching sensors to the head, brainwaves can be measured, and by providing visual feedback, you can actually train your brain to regulate its activity. An ADHD person supposedly has a brain which isn't very good at keeping itself in 'concentration' mode. In a child, the feedback takes the form of a game or in the case of an infant, a pleasing pattern on the screen (an infant would probably be treated for sleep disorders, not ADHD, in case you were wondering). When the brainwaves are in the 'right' state, the game proceeds or the patterns get prettier. When the brainwaves are erratic, it all slows down.
Because it is a trendy new thing, it's been put forward as a possible treatment for many other things including sleeplessness, epilepsy and other disorders, but one of the better successes has been in the treatment of ADHD.
The whole thing sounds quite plausible, but it is also quite expensive. All of the stuff I've read has been either from the suppliers of the treatment, or from people trying to discredit it."
Not a disease (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm of the opinion that ADD/ADHD is not a disorder, and should never be "treated". Perhaps having been prescribed various stimulant medicines which shortly turned into an addiction, which in itself transformed into dependency on methamphetamine (which I finally quit in March thanks to Rational Recovery [rational.org]) has influenced me in distrusting chemical treatment, the idea of treatment at all, and, most importantly, the disease model that most people seem to apply to Attention Deficit, but perhaps it is just from having been someone who could very aptly be described as the "Poster Child" for ADD.
Based on the experience of myself and many others, I have come to the conclusion that Attention Deficit is not a disorder inasmuch as it is a different form of thinking and interacting with the world which can have both its downsides and its blessings. We may have trouble in the standard school and work paradigms that most seem to be able to deal with successfully, but we also tend to be very insightful, creative, and interesting folks
I always call attention to the fact that many of our greatest minds, a perfect example being Albert Einstein, would today have been diagnosed with ADD, prescribed stimulants, and had the insights that they would have otherwise shared with the world snuffed out and replaced with mindless conformity.
Please consider changing your daughter's school, and adapting her environment to her very special mind, instead of trying to cram a square peg into a round hole and possible damage her intellect forever.
Experiment (Score:4, Insightful)
Doctor (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, I'm sorry this is happening to you and it sucks, but go talk to someone who knows how to help you. Please.
Do you realise Ritalin is Speed? (Score:2, Insightful)
Stop Ritalin (Score:5, Insightful)
There are many studies out there about the inefficient conversion of ALA To EPA and DHA [ajcn.org] in people with ADHD, leading me to believe that pumping your kid full of stimulants is a (very) wrong answer.
Try Mercola.com [mercola.com], which has some very informative articles on ADHD [google.com]. As a start, make sure your kid isn't having a lot of sugar and caffeine (ie drinking fruit juices and soda).
Try something different without medicine. (Score:2, Insightful)
IMarv
Re:Not a disease (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, when I get to school in kindergarten, I blew everybody away. Most was starting on their ABC's and counting. I was pretty much bored to death. And I was ancy. Having a 'teacher' (I use this word very loosly) who was one of those high-strung IHATECHILDREN types didnt help much either.
Needless to say, they called in the psych people and demanded that they put me on drugs and psycho-therapy. My parents put their foot down hard and told them to fuck off.
What you have here is a teacher who wants all their kids to be is little blobs who sit down and shut up.
I learnt something else from that early age: School isnt the place of learning. Perhaps that also ruined me, as I never had to study to ace a test or somesuch.
Re:Not a disease (Score:5, Insightful)
Proper treatment of ADD is *not* just enough pills to "calm them down". Proper treatment of ADD is a variety of coping mechanisms, with stimulants being one of them.
In fact, having ADD and being prescribed Ritalin, I have accomplished far greater things than I would have were I to not have been medicated. Now that I am on my own, I still have found it to be beneficial, both for work, and for play.
Re:Not a disease (Score:2, Insightful)
What evidence do you have of this? I can think of Bob Dylan, who clearly had (and probably still has) ADHD, a counter example. During 1965-6, what most would argue to be his best period, he would regularly take methamphetamines before writing. These would calm him down the point that he could write very non-trivial songs in a short period of time. Had Einstein taken a little meth he could have been even more productive. Now that you can get Ritalin from a doctor instead of meth of JD on 15th and M, why deprive yourself of safe, helpful medicine?
Re:ADHD is not real. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not a disease (Score:2, Insightful)
You prabably already have, as you sound like a concerned father, but I encourage you to look into non-medicinal, dietary and environment based remedies to see if they are an option. Living as a drug addict makes life that much more difficult.
Re:Not a disease (Score:5, Insightful)
I would steer clear of anyone with such a vehement position on this issue, as it is a serious one. To deny someone the benefits of proper medication is to bar them from realizing the full potential of their intellect. Yet be cautious, do your research, and examine other alternatives if undesirable side-effects overwhelm the benefits.
You may want to look into Strattera, as it lacks the addictive properties of other ADHD drugs. My only noticable side-effect on it has been a focused mind - something I've coveted for a long time.
Re:Not a disease (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:Not a disease (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't get a 'fuck the system' vibe out of his comments - they were clear, consise and backed up with personal 'evidence'.
Just because you dont' agree doesn't make him wrong. Any more than it makes you are wrong because you think taking drugs makes you a better person.
And don't try and unload on me - I've done the drugs for ADD, and I hated myself when I was on them so I'd flush them and tell my parents I took them. I have since learned 'coping strategies' that the public health people used to teach me and they work just fine. I have learned to recognize that I am drifting out of focus and correct if I need to. I also let my employer know that I am prone to ADD and that I am in fact still working even if I look like I'm not.
I agree with the parent - drugs aren't the way to go. but if you feel they work for you, thats great.
But thats still no reason to be a tit about it.
Repackaging concentrated meditation (Score:3, Insightful)
Okay, so the therapeutic technique you describe is to simulate an aspect of reality that's pretty much there when you're in good external spaces.
It's also much like a standard form of meditation: concentrating on a candle flame. Or concentrating on an image of a diety. The object of concentration, like great live music, becomes richer in your experience at the same time as you're able to better resolve other aspects of life. (Thus has power often in the past been ascribed to statuary.)
Schools don't want concentration, don't want trained attention of this sort. They're mostly ugly spaces, something even less interesting than a factory aesthetic (where at least there's real production being done). That's why 2/3rds of our kids leave them for the factory jobs that no longer are there, instead of sloughing on through a few more years to pass through college - despite that colleges are more often decent aesthetic spaces.
William James wrote cogently of the need to teach concentration as fundamental to education. The problem for our current schools is that kids who can concentrate will mostly want out of them. Because when you can concentrate at will, your will is often not going to be towards the less rewarding concentration on a teacher who typically was among the stupidest cohort at college.
I'd suggest seeing if there's a descendent of the old "free school" movement in your area for your daughter. She's probably too smart for her teachers. But she should learn concentration, whether through immersion in art, practice of traditional concentrative meditative techniques, or the techno repackaging of those techniques that you describe.
Re:Do you realise Ritalin is Speed? (Score:1, Insightful)
My sons experience (Score:2, Insightful)
So, as with any psychololgical treatment, the person first needs to admit they have a problem, and want to do some work to 'fix' that problem. If this is not the case, don't even bother.
The treatments were very expensive, so I would not do something like this lightly.
Re:Not a disease (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not a disease (Score:2, Insightful)
Done the drugs, chose something better (Score:5, Insightful)
They put me on ritalin when I was about 6 after giving up on training me, and found it didn't work - it actually made me more hyper.
Thats when they moved me to Dexadrine. For the americans out there, it's the same drug some people use to lose weight. It immediately worked, helping me focus and not be so wired.
The downside was, I was moody and depressed. I was anti-social and angry a lot. but I was 8 and people didn't care really. They wrote it off as depression because my parents broke up. But when they took me off the pills for the summer, life was grand again. I was energetic to a fault and had lots of friends. Come school time, back on the drugs and back to quiet, boring, socially acceptable me.
Fast forward to highschool and I'm still on the stupid things. September was great, I'd start taking the pills and wouldn't eat for a weak (about the only upside to em, great weight loss). But around that age you start to become more self aware and I realized that I hated myself because I wasn't really me. I took these stupid pills every morning and I became who my parents and teachers wanted me to be, but I wasn't really me. I didn't laugh as much, I didn't talk as much, but I got good grades.
Around grade 11 I said 'fuck this' and started to not take the pills. Then my parents started threatening me and grounding me if I didn't take them. So I'd pop them in my mouth then spit them out. Then they started to check my mouth to make sure I swallowed them. So I found a new trick - you could pull apart the gel caps and all the little balls of medicine inside would fall out. So I'd quickly dump them on the floor or sink then take the pill. That worked well and I started to feel more like myself.
Except then my grades started slipping.
So thats when I turned to the psycho babble they'd been teaching me at my semi montly sessions. They called it 'coping strategies' and taught me how to recognize when I wasn't behaving well or focusing like I should. Instead of just throwing pills at the problem, they put me in control of my life and said 'these are the tools to make things better for you, but you need to do them'. They made me responsible for my behaviour and grades.
So I started with them. At this point I can't identify what I do, but my friends will notice when I *click* in and out of focus now. Apparently I'm much better and I can recognize when I'm having ADD moments. Sometimes I have ADD days. I've learned to work with instead of against the ADD. I now run dual monitors on my PC so I can do more than one thing easily. my desk has lots of distractions on it, but they're all little. I can jump from work to a distraction for 30 seconds to give my brain a break then back to work. I can focus much better now that I've learned these skills, and I dno't need pills to make me work well.
So, the moral of this story is that pills aren't necessary. They inhibit your mental and social and emotional growth by turning you into a little robot. I found that I could actually feel myself in a little tunnel when I took them and things seemed duller. Teaching coping skills is, I think, the key. Teaching your child how to recognize when they're not paying attention is the first step, then teaching them how to focus when needed, and let their mind go when not needed. If this Neural Feedback Training does that (and it sounds like it does), then go for it! Don't spare any expense
Re:Not a disease (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe I posted something about AD(H)D not being a disease in one of the earlier Ask Slashdots. I firmly believe that it is not a disease. The fact is that AD(H)D is simply not the normal way people think or act, and as such has been labeled a disease; which prompts people to look for "cures" to the behaviors.
Now I wouldn't be at all suprised if neural feedback therapy would work, but I agree with the parent comment that it's not needed. I suggest you look into the parent post and think about whether you think your kid really is a problem, or it's just a "doesn't fit into the current education model".
First, I'd like to refer you to my pervious [slashdot.org] comment in the origional discussion. That said, I have one other thing. I would like you to read "The War Against Boys [amazon.com]". Buy it ($14 I think), check it out at your library, whatever. Now I realize that your child isn't a boy, but one of the things that the book talks about is how public schools are becoming designed for "girls". By this I mean the classic little girl who always sits quietly and pays attention and such. Kids who do not fit this mold often have problems or are labeled troublemakers or as AD(H)D kids or other such things. I think an alternative schooling environment may be the best thing for your child. A perokial school, a private school, maybe there is even a school that specializes in AD(H)D kids in your area; because as you know they often just learn differently. I think reading this book might help you realize what I suspect is going on: you child doesn't fit the mold and so other people (school administrators/teachers for example) are trying to "help" you make her fit that mold. A quick look at the table of contents shows that I think chapter 7 is for you, but I could be wrong about that.
PS: If something above is unclear, just reply and I'll be glad to answer you. And if you /.ers out there if you disagree with me or think I'm an idiot, I'd really appriciate it if you'd just reply and tell me. I'll read it.
PPS: I said this in my last comment and I think I might have gotten modded down for it, but I'll say it again. I would suggest you call Dr. Laura [drlaura.com] and ask her about your situation. She's VERY good at helping you figure out where to go on issues like this. And I can garuntee she only has your child's best interests at heart when she gives you advice. She is a licenced Clinical and Family Therapist (I think that's the term), so she knows what she is talking about.
Asking a doctor... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think he knew what he was asking for in this forum.
Re:Had this done (Score:3, Insightful)
Please realize the structure of modern educational systems is based on regimenting people to a time clock, to produce work for evaluation, and for punctuality. It's really not designed to educate, for even those that "fail" have at least learned the "rules of school": show up, don't be late and when the bell rings, work is over. Perfect for modern factory work. Guess when the modern school developed. If you said "hand in hand with factory work" you are right.
150 years ago there would be no diagnosis for your condition, and having to work for more than 30 minutes without taking a break wouldn't be an illness. There was no concept of a "work day" anyway and rural folk had work that was entirely seasonal. Anyone of even vague wealth would find the idea of being tied to a clock moronic. The idea that you are "sick" because you can't concentrate on one typically boring or otherwise mundane concept for more than half an hour says a lot more about how work/education has changed than anything else.
I'm sorry you feel like you have an illness, but I have a great deal of trouble believing millions of people are rightly drugged for a disease that didn't exist sixty years ago.
-dameron
You're conclusion uses faulty logic (Score:3, Insightful)
I have acute ADHD. When I was last tested (in college) I came out with like 17 of 18 characterics or something. I have been off and on various medications over the course of my life, including ritalin and dexadrine.
The problem with your argument is that it mistakenly assumes that treating the symptoms of a way of thinking and brain activity (loss of attention) inherantly involves the loss of any creativity n the same person. Essentially you draw an conclusive connection between two characteristics with NO evidence to support that conclusion.
According to your logic a "life of the party" guy who gets treatment for alcoholism will no longer be fun or interesting, because it is the alcoholic "party guy" component of his personality that makes him interesting. Isn't it possible he is an outgoing and interesting person who happens to be an alcoholic? And that he will STILL be so, sober or not?
What if many insightful and inventive people happen to have ADHD, but not all ADHD people are insightful and inventive? Isn't it actually both possible and likely that treating the lack of attentiveness will allow a truly creative person to concentrate on and further develop the creative ideas he comes up with?
In my experience I have found that this is the case. I am, like you state, a fairly creative and insightful person. I'm the kid who disassembled teh family television to figure out how it worked, who learns a new technology in ten minutes to help someone else, etc. When I take a methamphetamine like ritalin or dexadrine it just allows me to focus VERY deeply into whatever i am doing. Instead of doing something else every 30 minutes I can sit and churn out the same thing for like 3 hours at a go.
Yes, there are side effects, and I SPECIFICALLY don't like ritalin very much (it makes me feel like I'm tripping and makes me very socially uncomfortable). However, for someone whose productivity is that of a gnat without it the treatment offered by Meths is a god-send.
I'm sorry if you have an addictive personality and you fell into a hole as a result of a meth prescription. However, I see that more as a personal problem you had and not an indication of the merits or general problems associated with methamphetamines. Ironically the only people I've seen who get addicted to meth drugs are people who AREN'T ADHD positive (like some of my friends in college). ADHD folks usually couldn't care less.
-Rick
Re:ADHD is not real. (Score:3, Insightful)
All idiocy stops here... I have taken this therapy (Score:5, Insightful)
Hello,
First, let me start off by saying that I have in fact taken this "feedback" therapy, or, more accurately known as EEG/EMG biofeedback therapy.
A little background information on ADHD... trust me, I've done my homework on this as I have the condition. The strongest medical explaination of ADHD (which encompasses the former ADD... more later) is a rapid decline of oxygen metabolism in the prefrontal lobe during periods of thought requiring concentration. This kind of conditition can lead to two forms of ADHD: inattentive and overactive... I happen to fall into the former category. Basically, EEG waves can be measured through the skull/scalp in the picovolt range by use of an amplifier connected to a small probe stuck to the scalp by use of electrolytic gel similar in consistancy to vaseline. When EEG signals are filtered, they can be separated into waves in the .1 second duration and .5 second duration. ADHD individuals show a marked amount of "slow" wave amplitude over "fast" wave amplitude.
Someone mentioned earlier in the post that he was unable to alter his brain function in a short period of time; a just statement. I attended therapy for nearly 3 weeks after diagnosis before seeing any kind of large changes in brain activity while concentrating. The excercises used started off with concentrating on an object in a video monitor to mentally "push" it along... and later was changed to academic study of exceedingly boring material. As my scores improved, so did the quality and depth of the notes I wrote during a timed interval of study.
Now, coming down to it. ADHD is usually a male-dominant trait, passed from father to son... explaining the vastly larger amount of males with the condition.
I specifically did NOT choose drug therapy as it would have prevented me from service in the Marine Corps. Simply put, I'm a rock in a traditional education environment, but continue to score in the 130 range with reputable IQ tests. My doctor in fact was the person who encouraged me to satisfy my "thrill seeker" personality (which is somewhat common in ADHD individuals). Since my diagnosis, I continue to be a United States Marine, having endured training such as aircrew school and SERE, and now get to fly around in KC-130 tactical aerial refueling aircraft as a Crewchief/Flight Mechanic. I have also attained my private pilot's license, parachute jump license, and have started racing a stock RX-7 in autocross. Major "Pappy" Boyington of the Black Sheep squadron was also of the ADHD personality. What can I say? It feels good to go fast.
It is my firm belief that your daughter does NOT need stimulant therapy, and would benefit from the somewhat unconventional EEG biofeedback therapy. If you contact me privately at my email address, I will be happy to converse with you over the phone about my doctor and how to contact him for more information.
Hope this clears up any doubts you had about this somewhat unconventional therapy method
CheersRe:Not a disease (Score:5, Insightful)
The prevalence of myopia is about 25% [wrongdiagnosis.com] among the adult population in the USA.
Does that mean it's not a disorder, that instead of wearing glasses we should have the other 75% be restricted to a minimum font size of 48pt (or preferably 96pt given my own ability to read my CRT from inches)?
Sure, one can argue whether it's better to view the ADHD or myopic population as falling inside one tail of a bell curve rather than having a qualitatively different 'disorder', but either way -- if there are treatments to improve the quality of life for those people, where's the problem in that?
Re:Not a disease (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, it is best to combine proper training, coping mechanism, and other therapy with the drugs. And don't stick with the first drug you try. A good Doctor will arrange to try a few different drugs to find the one that is most effective with the fewest side-effects. Also, arrange for a "drug holiday" once a year if it is a "mild " case. Many people are more able to cope without medication as they mature and learn more self-control. But don't feel bad if you (or your child) have to continue with drugs all your life. You wouldn't feel bad if it was insulin.
Life is a disease (Score:5, Insightful)
If my folks would have taken me to a doctor as a kid because I spaced out on the gym floor, I would surely have been diagnosed with ADD. But the real truth is that I wasn't a jock.
Going back to my first statement (about people doping up for everything under the sun), think about it:
1. I've got a few age lines in my face. Solution? Inject toxin just under the skin to make it swell and fill in the wrinkles for a few months!
2. I've got reflux (probably the fallout of too many antibiotics and a bad yeast infection in the digestive tract) disorder. Solution? Get the purple pill that costs an arm and a leg and I will have to stay on for life lest my symptoms get worse.
3. I'm going bald. (Hey... we all get old eventually) Solution? There's just too many to go into, but I'll point out that the list of side effect for Propecia is mind boggling. Especially the one that says to not even TOUCH Propecia if you are pregnant!
I'm not denying that there ARE people with problems out there. I'm not even saying that this guy's kid may not have problems. But let's step back a bit. Back to the time when kids were allowed to be kids. When they didn't have to "perform" in a certain way by a certain age lest they be considered "freaks". Hell... most of us were considered "freaks" but I think we fared pretty well over our lifetimes. Haven't we? The first thing I would say is that this child may just normally be less social and more introverted. Is that REALLY a problem? Do we REALLY need to drug people who just don't get on well with other people?
The other thing is the expectation people place on their kids these days. And the ridiculous level of activity kids are expected to be involved in. (Baseball, Soccer, Football every F*cking day?!! WTF?!) Kids should be allowed to do things like sit in the backyard baking mud pies or making snowmen. They should be allowed to make "chemistry sets" with water, food coloring and old bottles. They should be free to dig holes in the ground in hopes that they will reach whatever it is they believe to be on the other side. But most of all they should be allowed to dream. Because those dreams will take them farther than any drugs they are getting pumped into them.
Song of Sign (Score:2, Insightful)
I would reccomend trying something similar with your kid. It may not work, as everybody's brain is a bit different, but I have seen sign language song to *wonders* for several kids now. I haven't seen any literature on the subject, or anything else, and as far as I know, my friend invented it as a therapy.
I know, I have bad karma, so some of you mods (if anybody even reads this) will probably assume I'm full of crap. I swear, I only have bad Karma because of a single "I welcome our XXX overlords" joke. So far, it just happens, that's the only comment of mine that has been moderated!
Easy to say if you don't have it ... (Score:5, Insightful)
A. Undiciplined
B. Lazy
C. Just different
D. All of the above
(take your pick) explination really fustrating. You really don't know what it's like until you've been in our headspace.
Now as for medication. I agree in a perfect world being intellegent and ADHD would be great. We could be the thinkers, excentric scientists and artists. Unfortunately we live in a world that demands that we "stay focused" and have great "organizational skills", so the practical considerations must be taken into account.
That being said I belive there is an over diagnosis in children (hey kids are a real PITA and can be hard to manage) and an under diagnosis in adults. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 31 since I have found many ways to cope and be successful.
Oh look something shiny
(couldn't resist that one)
Different theories (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not a disease (Score:4, Insightful)
Stimulant medication, so the theory goes, speeds up the slow part, thereby allowing the over compensation to stop and the brain to function 'correctly'.
You site a few examples where ADHD is a positive thing, but completely ignore the fact that for some people it is an incredible disability. My two year old daughter has more sense than the seven year old when it comes to day to day tasks.
I respect and value your input as someone who has been treated with stimulant medication. But maybe you didn't have ADHD, but were in fact a smart kid who was just full of energy. It is fairly obvious when someone is taking a too higher does of ritalin. And for someone who doesn't have ADHD, any amount is too much. Seriously, if you don't have ADHD, ritalin will make things worse. One of the things we were told about neural feedback is that we'd have to watch her ritalin dosage, as once her brain patterns move towards 'normal', the amount she's on now would probably be too much.
Albert Einstein is dead. And i doubt you knew him personally. He may well have been given stimulant medication if he were a child alive today. It may well have numbed his mind (if he didn't have adhd), or it may have turned him from super genius to super-duper genius... maybe he would have finished that grand unified field theory thing he was working on. The fact is though, we'll never know, so bringing it up is just a little pointless.
I am pretty sure that all the examples you can find of stimulant medication causing problems, are cases where adhd was not the correct diagnosis. I would love to not have my daughter taking Ritalin, but it's the lesser of two evils at the moment and I will argue with anyone who says it doesn't have its place. For some people it's the difference between happiness and being able to interact with people, and the horror of social isolation.
My thoughts (Score:3, Insightful)
2) Evaluate your daughter's teachers. I have a background in education thanks primarily to my mother being a Title I reading teacher. She brings her work home with her and the whole family is greatly involved in it much of the time. I've also worked for 3 educational institutions, mainly as an IT guy but also as a aide. I can think of numerous teachers that have neither the training nor the patience to work with a ADHD child. Simply put, if my child was diagnosed with ADHD and happened to be in one of their classrooms, I'd have them moved to another teachers room. Failing that I'd pull them from my local school district and drive them to a school district that has staff capable of effectively teaching an ADHD child. You should determine if your daughter's teachers can cope with her disorder. Would the school put her into special ed (very bad idea)? Does the school have any past experience with ADHD children? Is your daughter's class size small enough to get an adequate amount of attention from the teacher or her aides? Does the school have any special programs for students of such disorders than can offer the individualized attention she needs without the negative treatment of being placed in special ed?
You have a long road ahead of you. The good news is you are not alone. The Internet is filled with information about ADHD, the possible treatments, support groups, and much more. Consider looking into the services of institutions that specialize in child care such as Shriners. You may not need their financial assistence but you're sure to benefit from their knowledge. Best of luck to you and your family.
Re:Not a disease (Score:4, Insightful)
I got very self centered about this somewhere along the way. If I was bored in class it wasn't my problem. It was somebody elses. I guess i've come to realise that school _is_ a place of learning, provided you are able to learn at the prescribed rate. I wish i'd had the presence of mind at that age to just say to my teachers: 'I can sit at my desk and cause a distraction while you ramble on about stuff I already know, or I can finish my work, sit down out of the way and read a book quietly. How do you want it?'.
Re:Not a disease (Score:5, Insightful)
Believe it or not, we're not all created equal. Some people are more 'gifted' than others in many different ways. What society and hack psychologists perceive to be a sickness or disease can be a great asset with the right application.
Unless you kids are autistic, don't fuck with them. If they can't pay attention in class, put them in private schools where the curriculum is more challenging. Nine times out of ten kids who screw around, draw and doodle, clown around instead of getting work done probably aren't being challenged. I know, I was one of these kids. When they finally did some standardized testing the school system discovered that kids like myself were 'bright' and were bored with average work. Once you get into something more advanced and difficult, you pay attention and do work.
I have issues with the current American school system still, because it aims to average the students out. Rather than having some dim and some bright bulbs, they all glow with the same intensity. Also most public schools promote regurgitative learning rather than comprehensive skill sets. Hence you get students that cram before the test, pass it, but don't understand what they've learned. School becomes trivia, and trivia is rarely interesting or engaging.
I hope I have 'gifted' children, because I'll understand them and hopefully will be able to challenge them in ways they'll later appreciate. They won't get hours of television; they'll get books, technical manuals, things to build. I'm not anti-television or anti-entertainment, I just believe that the way I taught myself was valuable and want to give my offspring the same opportunities.
Re:Not a disease (Score:2, Insightful)
Also the test I was given consisted of pressing spacebar everytime a letter appeared on the screen, except when an X appeared. In that case i was supposed to do nothing. In analyzing the results with my psychatrist she said that by the pattern of response times based on noraml responses and responses just after an X there is a signficiant deviation from the normal population.
Re:Not every ADHD sufferer agrees with this statem (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this hits at the heart of the problem, and the real reason such drugs are being overused nowadays: 5 year olds are supposed to be overactive. From the time they can walk, all non-human mammals are running around, playing/fighting with one-another, etc; this is extremely important, as those that don't get regular exercise and learn precise muscular control will soon become prey.
21st-century humans, however, are being put in school at extremely young ages. When they're supposed to be running around, getting exercise, and having fun, they're forced to sit in classroom and stare at a book. Naturally, the teacher can't do her job when the kids won't sit still, so the school will pressure the parents into giving these drugs to their kids.
Damn right 5-year-olds get distracted, and why shouldn't they?
Re:Easy to say if you don't have it ... (Score:2, Insightful)
And that's the problem. Many, if not most, mild cases of "mental illnesses" like AD(H)D, depression, and "social phobia" - are better labeled "failure to be a good cog in the machine". It's not an illness to be different, especially in a society as sick as ours.
Over diagnosis - the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is why, I think, there are so many of the comments you hear... because there are so many 'problem' children who are just labelled as having ADHD to explain disobedience.
My parents were foster parents for many years while I lived with them, and they were often sent the 'problem' children as they were seen to be excellent in handling them. I remember one girl in particular who came to us labelled as having ADHD and a 'handful' and unable to focus or be handled.
Within ONE WEEK my parents had her happily ensconsed reading books, playing with toys etc. for ages at a time with no drugs, no fancy methods... just good old parenting, and a firm hand where required. (I don't mean physically a hand as such, I mean sticking to your ground when you say things like "No, you can't have that" or such things... not giving in to demands etc.)
So very many cases are like this, and it's THOSE cases that cause you the grief... I can't help but have the same feelings about most ADHD diagnosed kids because just so many of them have nothing wrong, it's just a convenient out for parents... which is wrong of me as there are real issues at hand here, but until doctors stop throwing the label about willy nilly, the stigma will remain.
Re:Do you realise Ritalin is Speed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Truth be told, nobody has much of an idea WTF happens to make the brain do anything, nonetheless what causes it to do odd things. "Research" involves randomly cooking up new chemicals in the lab and seeing what they do to living brains.
Paranoid Thought (Score:1, Insightful)
I used to think that the big R was the 'Work Of The Devil'TM.
After reading the intelligent posts here, I'm not so sure.
And that worries me
Re:Occam's Razor (Score:3, Insightful)
I was high school valedictorian. I rarely, if ever, had any homework. I never felt challenged by any of my school work. So my work ethic vis a vis homework was not as tuned as I needed it to be for college. That certainly had something to do with it. In retrospect, I was a bit immature as well. However, according to a quick consultation with my son's psychistrist, who himself has ADHD, (1) ADHD is inherited, and my son's mother has little to no symptoms herself (class valedictorian a year ahead of me), and (2) I show almost all of the signs of being ADHD, however mild, in a twenty question list that the psychistrist provided. My one scholastic weakness was in my handwriting. It was terrible. The processing required to properly write characters in order is immense, far more than I originally thought. That was my first clue about my son as well. His handwriting was abyssmal, but the real problem was that he could not write sentences. He could speak them well enough, but couldn't even dictate to himself and get them onto paper! I didn't have the pen-to-paper problem, but my writing was nearly illegible.
College is an startling experience for most kids, me included. But there were times, especially the first couple of quarters, when I thought I had forgotten to pack my brain when I moved off to college. I could not concentrate at a level that I could before. Fiercely academically competitive, I found that I could not perform at a level that I was satisfied with, one that approximated my earlier results. I expected college to be more difficult, but not to the point that I just didn't grasp the material. Something was clearly wrong here. It was about 15 years later when my son's problem cropped up that I recognized ADHD as the cause of much of my problems in college.
Based on this new revelation that I have/had ADHD, I believe that to a large degree my symptoms were mitigated by the intense exposure to second hand cigarette smoke that was pervasive throughout my childhood. Nicotine has been shown in many experiments to sharpen many mental tasks, including concentration. My notes from my first quarter of college show a moderate but distinct decrease in the legibility of my handwriting over my senior high school work. I'll admit that these signs are by no means rock solid evidence, but I certainly believe them to substantiate that I was positively affected by nicotine (no, this is not a pro-tobacco stance - let me make that perfectly clear. I had to deal with my mother's cancer operations and chemotherapy enough in my childhood) enough to lessen the severity of my ADHD.
I can't claim this as a revelation in the field of cognitive science, either. I don't have a reference handy, but I have seen studies to suggest that some people return to tobacco use after kicking the habit precisely because of their diminished ability to concentrate, some after even years without tobacco. Anyone who's been around a tobacco addict or is one can attest to their behavioral differences based upon their nicotine levels.
Re:Not a disease (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a very close friend who went through this 13 years ago... he was diagnosed as ADD and immediately put on Ritalin. When that didn't work, they switched him to something else, when that didn't work, they switched him to something else... this poor guy's biochemistry was completely fucked for his entire adolescence. On top of the usual hormonal changes and mood swings, he had to deal with neurochemical roulette. Every time I saw him, he looked different -- sometimes he was very pale, sometimes he had a bad rash somewhere on his body, sometimes he was very low energy... it was crazy.
As soon as he turned 18, he stopped his medication. He has a horrible relationship with his parents due to this -- he says they turned him into a lab rat, and he hates them for it. He is now even more messed up than when he started, and recently has been diagnosed as so clinically depressed that he cannot function on his own... he's a mess. I'm convinced his brain was forever altered from this set of drugs they put him on... he was a very smart kid, still is, but he got shafted by faulty treatments by over-eager doctors and parents who believed that the *next* drug would be the key.
I'd be very wary of any sort of ADD/ADHD diagnosis. *Very* wary. It's just too easy to misdiagnose... Your daughter obviously does have some true difficulties fitting in, but I don't think giving her medication that makes her have facial microseizures is any sort of answer. The side-effects of these medications are just too great, especially in a growing body. Seek a second opinion, and definately look at holistic and therapeutic modalities.
I know this isn't an answer to your question... and I don't mean to sound critical of someone who is obviously a caring parent in a tough situation. I just figure relating my experiences in seeing this might help give you a perspective. Email me if you want more details -- my email address is on my blog linked above.
Re:Yes, it's real and yes, it works (Score:1, Insightful)
I dont believe that there is a single cause, or that there is a single type of ADD, just that it's a catch-all for something that people don't understand yet. I also believe that there are a lot of kids who are misdiagnosed by doctors and parents that think an excitable, imaginative daydreaming child is instantly ADD. As a parent I've met a lot of other parents who simply write off their kids as 'sick' because they aren't perfect little clones.
I've never treated my ADD as a handicap, but I occasionally warn people that I have it in situations where I know it might be exaggerated and have a negative impact. As an adult with ADD I've developed many skills to work around my natural tendencies and have not tried medication because, while I recognize I have an officially diagnosed disorder, I cannot treat it as such. I think it's simply natural. I am better at some things that "normal" people are not, and vice versa.
Please understand that not everyone uses ADD as an excuse, many people diagnosed with ADD do not treat it as an illness, or seek medical treatment for it.
While there is some evidence that some forms of ADD are diet/environment based it is not universally true. Second hand cigarette smoke exposure to young children has also shown some links to later ADD/ADHD, but again this hasnt been shown as the single factor. I grew up in a smoke free home on a low sugar, well balanced diet in a stable family home - a better experience than most people get, yet still have symptoms.