Safer Means Of Disposing Of Mad Cows 82
MissMarvel writes "A company claims to have a safer way to dispose of cows infected with Mad Cow Disease. It says that by using the kinds of chemicals that go into a drain-clearing product such as Drano, they can safely break down the suspected disease-causing proteins, known as prions.
The bodies of infected dead cattle are usually burned to destroy proteins these brain-wasting compounds."
I think this is old tech. (Score:2, Troll)
Re:I think this is old tech. (Score:2, Interesting)
Proofread, anyone? (Score:3, Insightful)
Indeed.
Re:Good write he is (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Good write he is (Score:2)
Re:Proofread, anyone? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Proofread, anyone? (Score:1)
Let's see... (Score:2, Insightful)
Or dump toxins into the water table by dousing the cows with Drano...
Which is safer again?
Re:Let's see... (Score:1, Flamebait)
If you'd read the fucking article, you'd see that their device is like a big pressure cooker. How is that going to contaminate groundwater?
LK
Re:Let's see... (Score:2)
In two ways. First the chemicals have to be created, second the chemicals eventually have to be disposed of.
Why not use enzymes [foodproductdesign.com] to break down the prion proteins? They are extracted from commercially grown tropical fruits (I think from parts of the fruit that aren't eaten anyway - such as pineapple and papaya rinds), and are already available in industrial quantities for use in such things as laundry and dish machin
Ew. (Score:3, Funny)
~~~
Safer Means Of Disposing Of Mad Cows (Score:2, Funny)
This might be important... (Score:4, Insightful)
I've heard it said that one hamburger can contain parts from 1000 head of cattle. When youre talking those sorts of numbers, the potential for outbreak, both for this and other diseases, is huge.
Disposing of the bodies is one thing, but far more important is early detection and isolation.
Re:This might be important... (Score:2, Informative)
So stay away from brraaaaiiiinnnsss and hotdogs and you'll be safe, for the time being.
Re:This might be important... (Score:1)
Sodium hypochlorite would be safer (Score:4, Interesting)
So why not a concentrated form of common household clorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite)? Yes, I know, it's toxic, but read on. Straight from the bottle, it dissolves hair in ten minutes, and will likewise break down other organic proteins. It's one of the ingredients in liquid drain opener products, in fact, along with lye. So in a concentrated form (remember, Clorox and its ilk is maybe 4% Na HypoCl), while it would produce fumes that would need to be contained, in the end the proteins could simply be flushed, and the bleach would eventually break down into salt water.
Re:Sodium hypochlorite would be safer (Score:1)
the problem with sodium hydroxide (lye) is that it doesn't readily break down.
Actually, the article states that they use potassium hydroxide in the apparatus.
This solves much of the environmental problem you described.
Re:Sodium hypochlorite would be safer (Score:5, Informative)
Nice try but wrong. Sodium hydroxide is a strong base and as such it will completely dissociate to water and the counter-ions when the solution is neutralized for disposal. All strongly acidic or basic waste must be neutralized for disposal. Once it is neutralized, the waste is only hazardous with respect to the remaining organic material.
The [balanced] reaction is:
NaOH + HCl ----> H2O + Na+ + Cl-
Sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl, also a strong base) has a lower pKa than sodium hydroxide and would require more to be as effective as the sodium hydroxide solution while still requiring the resulting solution to be neutralized.
Another consideration is how concentrated of a solution can be consituted. Higher concentrations allow for less solution to do more. Sodium hydroxide saturates around 11-12 mol/liter and potassium hydroxide saturates around 14 mol/liter.
Additionaly, once the base cleaves the peptide bond, the later neutralization of the solution will not reconstitute the peptide bond.
The crap in your drain is not bulk muscle, nerve, or bone tissue. Unless you are a serial killer. The strong caustic is necessary to effectively dissolve the infected tissue.
Re:Sodium hypochlorite would be safer (Score:2)
This is all true, except I'd change "must be neutralized for disposal" to "should be neutralized for disposal." And I'm not quite sure what fiori means by "remaining organic material," since neither NaOH nor NaOCl nor the neutralization of them would (most likely) have to do with organic substances. Ideal worlds, nitpicky, blah blah.
Moreover, the chlorine from the chlorine bleach is very, very bad for the environment, and is not nearly as easy to get rid of as other bases (like NaOH).
One problem with Na
Um actually Re:Sodium hypochlorite would be safer (Score:3, Informative)
It's not that these things don't degrade the prion- they all do, and reduce the infectivity, but it's just that in order for it not to be infectious, you have to get every last molecule, and most of them leave some behind. Last time I heard I think the approved technique to decontaminate a medical instrument was triple autoclave or something, but it wasn't guaranteed, and in
Re:Um actually Re:Sodium hypochlorite would be saf (Score:2)
Re:Um actually Re:Sodium hypochlorite would be saf (Score:2)
But experimentally, if you build a little bonfire, burn an infected animal, take the ash and inject it into mouse brains- they get BSE. The protein is incredibly hardy.
Wait... (Score:1)
Re:Wait... (Score:1)
Re:Wait... (Score:1)
My drain (Score:1)
Now i am not endangered anymore from deadly prions from my drain !!
Just me? (Score:1)
Re:Just me? (Score:1)
Mad Cows? (Score:2)
Send the cattle to Afghanistan! (Score:1, Funny)
They'll make mincemeat out of the landmine problems!
{groan}
Eating an infected cow (Score:3, Insightful)
Is mad-cow a scare? The chances of eating a mad cow are extremely low. How about the chances of infection from eating various parts?
Can anyone clarify this further?
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:1)
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:1)
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:2, Insightful)
Another problem is that the US uses mechanical picking devices to remove the last meat from the spine, rather than (prion dissolving) solvents used in other countries. The potential for contamination there i
Canada? (Score:2)
Anyone know whether Canada uses solvent or mechanical (or both)?
Also, at what temperature does the disease die? Enough to make your steak into a charcoal briquette? Will risk increase depending on how "rare" the meat is?
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:5, Informative)
Depends whether you kill it first. Cows are terrible when pissed off.
The number of deaths from Cruetzfeld-Jacob disease in the UK remains low, even after some fancy footwork in terms of changing the goalposts with regard to the vector of the disease. BSE doesn't even begin to address the things that are coming across the tragically mythical 'species barrier'.
"I would definately say you will stand a high chance of infection if you eat the brain matter - but what about well-cooked portions of the regular meat?"
Prions are usually confined to the nervous system and brain, meaning that you should steer clear of those bits. There have been some notes of concern sounded by contamination of meat with spinal cord and brain matter, but the regs in the UK have been seriously 'beefed up'* since the great cull. Having said that, cross contamination is _going to happen_ in an abbatoir.
"but what about well-cooked portions of the regular meat?"
I _believe_ that prions survive the cooking process at roughly 200C, but you should check that with a more credible source than a poster on Slashdot. Cooking stuff well just tends to reduce the parasites that 'can' be in meat, although generally this is fairly rare.
"Is mad-cow a scare?"
Yes and no. It finally put the nail in the coffin of the really daft practice of feeding entrails to animals in the same and different species, and so far the risk factor _appears_ to be lower than bowel cancer, but it pays to be vigilant, especially if you have epidemeology (which isn't true in this case) or a multi-billion dollar industry connected with it.
Of course, US Beef doesn't enter the UK because of the vast amounts of 'safe' growth hormone pumped into it; that represents a bigger risk, IMO, that nobody has really gotten into.
* Yeah, I'm really, really sorry.
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:1)
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:1)
http://www.cdc.gov/od/ohs/biosfty/bmbl4/bmbl4s7 d
" Although there is no documentation of the transmission of prions to humans through droplets of blood or cerebrospinal fluid, or by exposure to intact skin, or gastric and mucous membranes, the risk of such occurrences is a possibility. Sterilization of the instruments and decontamination of the operating room should be performed in accordance with recommendations described bel
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:2)
I'd have to go check to see if there's any body of research that deals with other animals, because prions aren't species specific, which is why we have BSE ('Mad Cow'), Scrapie (in sheep) and Cruetzfeld-Jakob disease in humans. It's notoriously suspicious to start using 'in humans' as a caveat.
"This is why we don't take blood donations from people who spent time in England."
Stronger wording than the actuality;
"Because
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:3, Informative)
Cronic Wasting Diese has been known about in Elk for 40 years, and so far no infections in humans have been reported. There is some evidence that Wolfs cannot get it, though I don't know if it is proven or just appears that way. Mad cow has existed for a while, and very few humans have been infected. Also very few animals have been infected in total. This is a very rare thing, unfortunatly we know almost nothing about how it works (Prions reproduce but don't otherwise fit even the limited definition of
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:2)
Good thing they label it, huh?
"For that matter if it was very contagious I would expect more cows to have it."
I'd repeat the crack I made above, but it wouldn't add anything. The main problem is testing for it. You have to look for;
a) The cow having problems standing.
b) A brain with a consistency of a sponge.
Both of those are a tad too late to stamp down on the milk/blood vectors without twatting the bloodline, which is essentially what happens.
"OTOH,
Re:Eating an infected cow (Score:3, Informative)
The big problem with prions (the things that cause mad cow disease (or bovine spongiform encephalopathy, BSE), as well as scrapie in sheep and some other diseases) is that there is no microorganism to blame, like a virus or bacteria.
Instead, prions are just mis-folded proteins. Take your normal protein, fold it wrong, and suddenly it acts funny because it can't do its normal job correctly. It also induces other proteins to fold incorrectly (that whole replication thing). Because this misfolding has to s
Powerful bases can break down proteins (Score:2)
Sodium hyrdroxide, calcium hydroxide and lithium hydroxide are all very powerful bases. My question then becomes, what of all of the cow sludge that is left after you dissolve them in a big vat of lye or sodium hypochlorate?
What is there to do? I haven't any idea.
LK
Re:Powerful bases can break down proteins (Score:2)
Fertilizer. Once it is harmless, neutralize the base, and compost it. In a few months spread it on a field and improve the soil.
Note, what and how to neutralize a base needs to be carefull understood. The technology is easy enough (just pour in some acid), but doing it safely (for workers), and safely (so the byproducts don't render the soil unable to grow plants) is something that needs to be planed for in advance.
Re:Powerful bases can break down proteins (Score:3, Insightful)
Are YOU going to want to eat something grown in Mad Cow fertilizer? I sure as hell won't.
I'm not willing to bank on no rogue prions having survived the processing.
Note, what and how to neutralize a base needs to be carefull understood. The technology is easy enough (just pour in some acid), but doing it safely (for workers), and safely (so the byproducts don't render the soil
Re:Powerful bases can break down proteins (Score:2)
Sure. I also eat vegitables fertalized by human waste (not that I can tell), which grosses out most people, even though it has been a valuable technique for years in Asia.
I know acids and bases make a salt when combined. Like I said, there are difficulties there. However they are not insurmountable if careful attention is paid to the details.
Re:Powerful bases can break down proteins (Score:2)
It's also done in Mexico, as evidenced by the recent hepatitis outbreak [courier-journal.com] that was linked to Chi Chi's.
It just isn't smart to put human feces and urine on plants that you plan to eat. Sure, if you know 100% of the organic material is comeing from healthy people you have nothing to fear, but if one human pathogen is a part of the fertiliz
Ewww, gross! (Score:2)
How about feeding them to wolves? (Score:1)
How about feeding them to wolves [slashdot.org]?
Re:How about feeding them to wolves? (Score:2)
Great, then you get mad wolves.
Burgers ? (Score:2)
The Yard-a-Pult (Score:2)
From Saturday Night Live [fortunecity.com]
Timmy: (in front of yard-a-pult loaded with dog-shaped black trash bag) "Daddy, where's sparky going?"
Rick Moranis: "Sparky's going to heaven, Timmy." *pulls lever*
(trash bag goes flying into neighbor's yard)
Re:The Yard-a-Pult (Score:2)
Or, for the Slashdot crowd: this [geocities.co.jp], specifically here [geocities.co.jp] and here [geocities.co.jp].
Very prophetic, in restrospect, so let the French have it
Re:The Yard-a-Pult (Score:2)
Rather, I think the French let the English have it.
"Fetchez la vache".
"Quoi?"
"Fetchez la vache!" *sproing* MOOOOOOooooosplat
Re:The Yard-a-Pult (Score:2)
Argh, yes, you are right! I guess I ridiculed myself in front of a large audience
Lame excuse: I was running low on caffein
Whatever happened to that Turkey-into-oil machine? (Score:1)
Seems to me that company should've stepped in to take over this problem - or maybe its the same people/research group?
landfill (Score:1)
Re:landfill (Score:1)
1000 kowz (Score:1)
What a mOOving sight tho!
double rim shot. cymbal crash
Re:1000 kowz (Score:2)
The smell of burning cows is not nice at all... A few years ago in the UK we had mass culling of cows due to "Mad Cow" and they burnt 1000's of the dead carcases a few miles away from my home. You could smell the stench for miles around, 24 hours a day for a few weeks.
Re:1000 kowz (Score:2)
Ooops,...must eat less beef! Moooo! ;-)
They did *what* with the carcasses? (Score:3, Insightful)
'cos if they had, you have a time bomb on your hands before the prions eventually reach the water-table, not to mention the long way up the food chain.
You have to incinerate the carcasses.
Recommended by serial killers worldwide! (Score:2)
Unfortunately, the proteins he needed to get rid of were formerly in the form of people. The hazard was getting caught, not getting sick, so YMMV.
(I know the radical peta'ns might equate cow slaughter with serial murder, but as a serial hamburger killer myself, I can't make tha
Run Away! Run Away! (Score:1)
What product off-shoots might we see in the future (Score:1)
Mom: How will I ever get this prime rib out of my sink drain?
Mad Cow: (Magically appears)
Mad Cow: With new Mad Cow Strength Draino!, it's Craaaaazy Strong!
Mom: Wow, thanks Mad Cow! Kisses cow on the cheek.
(Falls over confulsing)
(Cow flys off)
(Fade out)
(Cue Outback Commercial)
Drano is cool: aluminum cans have a plastic liner! (Score:2)
Drano, which contains lots of nifty sodium hydroxide, does a real number on aluminum cans. Did you know aluminum cans have a plastic liner inside them? I performed this neat "experiment" to find out for myself: (don't try this yourself):
Re:Drano is cool: aluminum cans have a plastic lin (Score:2)
Good theory, but very doubtful... N2 is way too stable to just react with another molecule.
However, very concentrated NaOH sorta smells ammonia-like... if you smell it, it'll probably burn your nose (don't try sniffing Drano at home).
Thermal depolymerization! (Score:2)
Meat (Score:1)
You can make this decision too: "I won't eat animals that were raised in a box." Your food comes from living things, have some respect for it.