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Stardust Probe Enters Comet's Tail Tomorrow 128

Posted by CmdrTaco from the she's-breakin'-up-cap'n dept.
Tortured Potato writes "NASA's Stardust probe is about to pass through the tail of Comet Wild 2 at 11:40am PST, January 2nd. If all goes well, the probe will return the material to earth for research in 2006-- the first extraterrestrial material captured from outside the moon's orbit."
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Stardust Probe Enters Comet's Tail Tomorrow More

Stardust Probe Enters Comet's Tail Tomorrow

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  • Uh oh (Score:5, Funny)

    by xmuskrat ( 613243 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @04:06PM (#7854304) Homepage
    Why does this sound like the beginning to a bad sci fi movie:

    • Re:Uh oh (Score:3, Funny)

      by Kenja ( 541830 )
      What are you talking about? Life Force [diabolical-dominion.com] rocked! Naked space vampires from a commits tail!

      • Re:Uh oh (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        That is such a great movie (not because the movie is "good" in the normal sense, it's good because it's so catastrophically bad and/or plain crazy)

        It's great for one, very important reason:
        Ms. Naked Space Vampire [t-online.de] - Mathilda May, naked, but only petrified at the start of the film. Really ;-). She shaped my adolescent desires in my formative years. Probably why I'm totally screwed up now. But she was incredibly hot in Life Force. No, that's crass. She was absurdly beautiful. And freaky, and prone to ma

    • Re:Uh oh (Score:5, Interesting)

      by twiddlingbits ( 707452 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @04:11PM (#7854331)
      Yes,there WAS a bad sci-fi movie about this. It was called the Andromeda Strain. Based on a book by Micheal Crighton IIRC. Same guy who wrote Jurassic Park. The "probe" brought back a virus that somehow almost escapes into the wild from the containment lab. At the time it was pretty far fetched. but now who knows. It seems Science is not taking nearly as long to catch up to sci-fi as we might think it would.

      • Re:Uh oh (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Andromeda wasn't a virus. It had no nucleotides or amino acids. It used crystalline structures to compartmentalize its metabolism. And it wasn't a bad movie. It was quite good if maybe too cerebral for some.
      • Bad ?
        I saw it when it first came out I was about 7 scared the shit out of me, took me years to get over the sight of a dead bird (like died in the beggining) NOW weve got west nile killing birds around here, still makes me skittish.
        Dont see how you could call it bad I thought it was well done and suspensfull

      • Small quibbles (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        It wasn't a bad move. It wasn't a virus. It didn't almost escape. It totally escaped. Not from a containment lab, but when a small-town doctor decided to crack open the probe. And it wasn't far-fetched.

        Other than everything you said, you are correct.

      • Re:Uh oh (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        "It seems Science is not taking nearly as long to catch up to sci-fi as we might think it would."

        I'll say. Just turned in my rocket-pack for a flying car. Sure, the rocket-pack is sportier, but getting on in years now, I appreciate the comfort the flying car affords.

      • Re:Uh oh (Score:5, Insightful)

        by deglr6328 ( 150198 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @04:58PM (#7854590)
        Why would a pathogen from another planet (comet, moon, solar system, whatever) be harmful to us at all anyway. Viruses and bacteria that are infectious to humans have evolved alongside humans in order to exploit our susceptability to thier particualr specialized modes of infection, thereby increasing thier own survival. It seems to me that alien biologic agents, which hadn't the opportunity to evolve parasitism to Earth Life would look at humans in the same way a housefly would observe a sea cucumber. Inacessable and foreign inert material.

        • Re:Uh oh (Score:3, Insightful)

          by LurkerXXX ( 667952 )
          Very true.

          On the other hand, it could be introducing a foreign plant/animal into an ecosystem. We've seen plenty of cases where that leads to rapid growth of the new species in a land with no natural preditors/competitors, and the eventual destruction of native wildlife.

        • Re:Uh oh (Score:1, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          Well, the harmfulness to humans of the pathogen was just a side-effect in the andromeda strain (the book isn't terrible, certainly better than the film) - it just happened to "eat" certain polymers, unfortunately including stuff in walls of blood vessels, and was small enough and stable enough (quasi-crystalline) to get in through the lungs. In the book, two humans survive simply because their blood pH is slightly off, so the organism was not supposed to be particularly adapted to attacking earth life. A

        • Re:Uh oh (Score:2, Insightful)

          by surprise_audit ( 575743 )
          OK, so what if life on Earth evolved from stuff that fell out of the sky? That's not so radical a proposition, either. There have been theories that recurrent illnesses such as flu could be caused by space-borne viruses/bacteria.

          • Re:Uh oh (Score:3, Insightful)

            by deglr6328 ( 150198 )
            I submit that it IS a radical proposition. I have heard the theory that the flu is caused by alien viruses and I think it is total bunk. The specificity of the influenza virus's surface hemagglutinin protein for binding to human cellular surface proteins (in order to gain entry to the cell and hijack it for virus replication) is so high, I cannot imgine it occuring by chance from some as yet unproven space borne virus(no viable extrateresstrial organism has ever been found in meteorites or dust that has f
      • It wasnt just a bad movie, it was also a bad book as well.

        too much ascii art for my tastes

        but anyways, they'd launch these sphere-like objects to the very edge of the thermosphere (right before you get to it actually) and bring down atmospheric samples, anything that might be able to thrive up there... one probe crashed into an arizona town, two guys come along, find the probe, then some old guy in a robe kills them after they noticed no one else was alive except him.
        etc.

        that was just about the climax of

    • Stardust Probe Enters Comet's Tail Tomorrow

      *waka-chicka-bocka-chicka-wowawow-wow*...

      I'm so very sorry. D'oh.

  • Comet Vapor? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by monkeyman_67156 ( 571036 )
    Not trying to troll, but what exactly is the point of sending a probe into the vapor trail of a comet?

    FP
    • It will allows us to better study the properties of intersolar and pansolar materials in high-velocity space bodies. We'll be able to gain insights into the likely composition of planets which are too far away to analyse directly, and if this works we can confirm whether or not it is actually a 'vapor' trail or some other substance. There are other, lesser implications for space travel also, but that's about the gist of it.
    • Some theories hold that the crucial organic materials for life, the amino acids and other things that eventualy became organic molecules, came from comets bombarding the planet in its early days. I dont really know the specifics though, IANA molecular biologist.

    • Re:Comet Vapor? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CarbonRing ( 737089 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @05:02PM (#7854628)
      This has never been done before. Any time we wander into the unknown, we are likely to be surprised and learn something unexpected. Historically, this has proven to be very productive.

      In this case specifically, it's interesting because we're collecting information and material from a new type of solar system object, one of very few that are within easy reach. There are theories based on indirect observations which suggest what will be found. Comparing what is found to what was predicted will help to test and refine (or invalidate) those theories.

      There are good reasons to believe that comets are leftover raw material from the formation of our solar system, objects which did not get gobbled up by larger objects and have spent most of their time since those early days orbiting out beyond Pluto's orbit. Then some chance encounter in the frigid boondocks of the outer solar system bent their orbit in toward the inner solar system.

      So, the Stardust probe is hopefully collecting a sample of pre-solar system material that's been in deep freeze storage for 4 or 5 billion years. That material is believed to be composed at least partly of fragments blown off from stellar explosions even farther back in time. It is literally star dust. This is an opportunity to get our hands on material that may be the same stuff that the Hubble and other telescopes look at from across light-years of space, all without leaving the neighborhood.

      No one knows what we'll find, but it's bound to be interesting, adding another piece to our understanding of the universe.
      • This has never been done before. Any time we wander into the unknown, we are likely to be surprised and learn something unexpected. Historically, this has proven to be very productive.

        Many things have never been done before. I have never had Pringles chips shoved up my nose, yet I doubt humanity would learn something grand and unexpected if they seized me and performed these experiments.

        • Somehow I expect that the Pringles-up-the-nose experiment has been done, probably multiple times per day in elementary schools around the world. If Pringles-up-his-nose really wants to do the experiment, by all means, but somehow I expect NASA won't be interested in funding it.

          But perhaps the parent post is trying to make the point that not every new thing is worth doing. Certainly, limited resources means scientific experiments have to be prioritized. Fortunately, Pringles-up-his-nose and others of that l

    • Re:Comet Vapor? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kitzilla ( 266382 )
      Because the going theory is that comets are the building blocks of our solar system. Many astronomers feel that the planets were formed as the dust ring accreted around the sun, developed into uncountable comets, and ran into each other in a long symphony of construction and destruction.

      Those comets still on the prowl are essentially icy time capsules: calling cards of the solar system (and the galaxy's) early history. Having a look at a comet's raw materials will shed some interesting light on how we all

  • devise a means to put a object in the path of a comet, (say halley's)land with a crumple shield and have it come back.
    • Because it'd do a Beagle, crash and impact with no sign of recovery.
    • Didn't you see deep impact? (or that other one exactly like it.) The comet surface is probably 100x as complex and turbulent as mars, and we have a hard enough time with that. Getting it there would be hard enough, getting it back would be downright impossible.
      • 1- we don't have to get 'it' back, just the data*
        2- it doesn't have to support life.. it doesn't have to be fragile.. think of something like an airliner 'black box'
        wrap it in buckyballs except where required for sensor I/O-
        if the sensor gets destroyed by a traumatic event, the recorder is still protected.

        * who knows what would be possible by the time we are ready to 1- send it out 2-get it back.

    • What if a probe were sent to a comet to crash into it in such a way that was redirected towards (but not quite directly at) the Earth? The comet might then enter orbit around the Earth and be retrieved with or studied from the space shuttle?

      • Catch it with the space shuttle and it's current tools?

        Imagine the space shuttle as a catcher in baseball. Made of wood. Manipulated by strings like a puppet.

        Now, imagine trying to use that contraption to catch a rocket-propelled grenade.

      • A probe crashing into a side of a comet would affect it's trajectory about as much as housefly hitting a jumbojet.

        That is, it wouldn't.
    • Back in 2000 I trained a group of engineers/science type folks at JPL in Pasadena. One of the members of that class was part of the smaple return program that has the goal of returning samples from Mars, several comets, and a some asteroids as well. Stardust is just one of many projects along these lines. Stardust had been launched before I taught the class but one of my co-workers had taught the Stardust group.

      The crumple shield concept wouldn't work at the velocitys involved for most of the targets bu
    • Japanese launched the HAYABUSA (MUSES-C) mission on May 9, 2003, which is planned to land on asteroid asteroid 25143 Itokawa (1998 SF36), and come back with samples.

      It's supposed to meet the target in June 2005, and come back to Earth in June 2007.

      Sure, it's not a comet but someone is trying to land on something and come back.

      And everyone is planning Mars sample return missions somewhere in the future.

  • Fools! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Null Argument ( 727797 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @04:13PM (#7854347) Homepage
    Didn't the scientists see Armageddon?!? Rocks in space are far too unpredictable!

  • Martians... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Robert Hayden ( 58313 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @04:13PM (#7854350) Homepage
    Hope the probe doesn't plan any side trips to Mars given how hungry the Martians have been lately...
  • The stuff that they are catching the particles in, That stuff sounds way cool, I bet I can come up with.....well no real uses but at least I could say I own some of the lightest solid on earth.

    Colud it be used to build a semi-rigid airship ? Or ....well whatever but its cool, I cant find any exacting details on what its made of however
    • I've seen real some aerogel (aerofoam) before. It's difficult to describe, it looks like a solid cloud of gas. It's very fragile, so it probably wouldn't be very useful to build vehicles out of. The best use of aerofoam is as an insulator.

      Is it possible to trap helium inside of aerogel? If so, you could have a lighter than air solid. That would be very cool.

  • The way the article describes the process, it sounds a lot like a Rube Goldberg process to get a fistfull of dirt from space. If a good portion of it is ice, would it not be water by the time it passes back through the atmosphere before it gets studied? Let us hope this galactic dirt is not water-soluble. Then again, I suppose that might tell the scientists something in its own right.

    On an aside, as I read the article I got an image of the monkey in the Lion King grabbing the dust and hair out of the air

    • It may be a lot of effort for a small amount of mass but think of the implications if they found a few amino acids in there, or maybe take a wild leap and imagine finding life. Its not impossible and from the results coming out of verous research into where life can survive its not even that hard to believe. Just think of the effect the discovery of non-terrestrial life could have on scociety.

      Then again that effect might be pretty ugly considering how people react to anything that contradicts their safe,
  • Well, it will be the first sample captured at a location outside the Moon's orbit by residents of this planet. Definitely not the first captured by this planet, nor by its residents.

  • units (Score:2, Funny)

    by calyxa ( 618266 )
    it's good to see that they stick to familiar units:

    dust grains will fly by the spacecraft at about 13,000 mph, or six times faster than a speeding bullet.

    -calyxa

    • I don't know. I'm more comfortable with football fields per fortnight.

      I like to walk and try to avoid speeding bullets wherever possible.

      Perhaps this story was aimed at Krytonians?

      KFG

      • Re:units (Score:3, Informative)

        by Penguinshit ( 591885 )

        The *real* problem with that analogy is that it is still widely variable...

        6 times faster than a speeding bullet

        Which bullet? a .50 lead ball fired from a black-powder musket, a .22 long rifle varmint round, a .44 magnum pistol round, a Warsaw Pact 7.62mm round, or a NATO standard 5.56mm round? Each bullet has a very different exit muzzle velocity...

  • with the recent failures of some other popular space project (=O), i hope this succeeds. from what i read the shields are only on the front, seems unlikely to me that a renegade particle might not hit the side, but im not expert.

  • Plasma Discharge Comet Model could be proved (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sireasoning ( 576345 ) <(moc.gnirpsdnim) (ta) (is)> on Thursday January 01, 2004 @04:36PM (#7854481) Homepage
    This could be very interesting in that there are rumblings that the "tail" of a comet may not actually be melting ice, etc (the dirty snowball model that is the current accepted theory). James McCanney has an interesting theory called the Plasma Discharge Comet Model.

    From the website http://www.usinternet.com/users/jmccanney/

    "The work showed among other things that comets were not dirty snow balls sublimating (vaporizing) in the solar environment, but were a complex plasma discharge interaction involving an asteroidal comet nucleus with the "solar capacitor", the capacitor being the result of a differential flow in the solar wind of high energy particles leaving the sun. The balance of charge in the solar system and a myriad of of other previously unknown effects were predicted by the theory, including the existence of an electron sheet arriving from the sun at a cometary nucleus and resulting x-rays. Only recently have these been verified by observation. The new comet theory also explained that the tail matter was not moving away from the comet nucleus, but was being drawn in by electrical forces millions of times more powerful than gravity or solar wind forces alone. Essentially a comet was now seen as a huge "cosmic vacuum cleaner". Comets were being captured into the solar system by the existing planets and the comet "tail drag" helped to circularize their orbits. Many commonly stated beliefs regarding the nature of the solar system were being dispelled with more subtle explanations. "

    The implications of this theory are intriguing as it may explain how Mars lost its atmosphere as well as such bizarre things as the LaBrea tar pits and all of the trapped creatures in it. (Under this theory a larger body can pull elements from a smaller body if it gets close enough such that things such as oil may not be decomposed dinosaurs, but instead gets "rained" down when a smaller planetary body moves close enough).

    Interesting stuff.

    • Speaking as someone who has studied comets for a living, I have to say that this is going deep into crank territory. I can disprove this theory with my own spectroscopic observations of plasma tails.

      The plasma tails of comets are composed of unstable molecules that quickly break down in the presence of ultraviolet light from the sun. In order for this theory to even be even remotely correct, a mechanism has to be proposed for creating (and protecting from distruction) parent molecules in sufficient quan

  • interesting (Score:3, Informative)

    by alex_ant ( 535895 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @04:43PM (#7854520) Homepage Journal
    I was on a NASA committee involved in the predesign stages of the Stardust probe (we weren't designing it ourselves, rather we were consulting with one of the teams at the JPL who were) and this comet dust was one of our main points of focus. You'd think of dust as about the most innocuous stuff there is, but it was quite a challenge designing all the intricate mechanisms on the craft to be resistant to it - at the speed it travels, it can be like sandpaper on all the components.
  • This is the probe that has all those names engraved on a silicon chip. Their are a total of 4 chips, 2 of chip one and 2 of chip two. One of each set will remain with the probe and the other set will be returned to earth in the sample return module.

    Google for it!

    • Re:Chips with Names (Score:2, Informative)

      by Elonka ( 710689 )
      I got my own name on the chip via my membership in the Planetary Society [planetary.org]. This batch was collected back in 1998, and the probe launched in 1999. Among the 1+ million names, they also included all the names from the Vietnam War Memorial, which I thought was a nice touch.

      There's a site that JPL maintains with information, but it's been tough for me to maintain a link to it because they keep reorganizing their file directories. As of the current nano-second, more information is available via the Stardust FA [nasa.gov]

  • the first extraterrestrial material captured from outside the moon's orbit.

    • Except for those pesky chunks of comets, asteroids and God-knows-what-else that keep crashing into our planet. Now we've gone and done it! We're in a Space Race with gravity! I suppose the next bright idea will be to rid the world of evil or something....

    "New causes for a new millenium: Stop plate tectonics! End supernovae now! Prevent animal predation!"

  • Probe entering comet's tail (Score:3, Funny)

    by kfg ( 145172 ) on Thursday January 01, 2004 @05:50PM (#7854953)
    Ummm, nah. Even I'm not going to touch that one.

    KFG
  • Everytime I try to imagine it passing through the tail I keep hearing the theme to Deep Space 9!

    Good luck to it! I hope it has better luck than some of the other probes that have encountered comets. It's quite a nasty environment!
  • " Not until January 2006, will Stardust and its precise cargo return by parachuting a reentry capsule weighing approximately 125 pounds to the Earth's surface. The word precise should probably be replaces with "precious". NASA should know better.

  • Article Text (Score:2, Informative)

    by kiwipeso ( 467618 )
    December 31, 2003: Philosophers have long sought to "see a world in a grain of sand," as William Blake famously put it. Now scientists are attempting to see the solar system in a grain of dust--comet dust, that is.

    If successful, NASA's Stardust probe will be the first ever to carry matter from a comet back to Earth for examination by scientists. It would also be the first time that any material has been deliberately returned to Earth from deep space.

    And one wouldn't merely wax poetic to say that in those

  • That sucks. I submitted this same story with the headline "Spacecraft gone Wild", and never heard anything back.
  • Dibs on the hot space vampire! [imdb.com]

    She [ukonline.co.uk] can suck the life out of me any day!

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