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Space The Almighty Buck Science

Two New Space Tourists Announced 120

Posted by simoniker from the day-trip-to-trumpton dept.
jfoust writes "Reuters is reporting that the space tourism company Space Adventures has signed up two Americans, at $20 million each, to fly on future Soyuz missions to the ISS. No details about who these people are, other than one is a 38-year-old male Manhattan real estate developer. One will fly in 2004 and the other in 2005. If you haven't quite saved up the $20 million yet, don't worry, the company is still looking for at least two additional tourists for flights through 2007..."
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Two New Space Tourists Announced More

Two New Space Tourists Announced

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  • Space travel is expensive (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ObviousGuy ( 578567 ) <ObviousGuy@hotmail.com> on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:33AM (#7752269) Homepage Journal
    Space tourists get to bring the costs down for everyone in the long run. And they really don't get much more than bragging rights and rides in the Vomit Comet for all that money.

    I'd rather spend my $20,000,000 on a long vacation in Moraco.

    • Not really (Score:5, Insightful)

      by nil5 ( 538942 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:44AM (#7752304) Homepage
      Space tourism is pretty inconsequential and doesn't bring the cost down, since there are so few space tourists. The amount of money it costs to launch a rocket, let alone maintain the ISS DWARF the income provided by a space tourist.

      You're drawing the obvious, specious conclusion

      • Tsc, tsc. (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        And new 2.0+ GHz computers are on the cheap, right?

        Well, guess what, in Soviet Russia... $40 million is a lot of dough and can fly them a little longer...

        Of course, this is not American technology, which we know is far better than Chinese, Japanese or Russian, don't we? (hint: stop having prejudice)

        BTW, congrats on your yesterday's "flight". How much did it cost? (hint: if everybody is saying something else, maybe _you_ are wrong, like in that inches & feet versus SI thing)
      • It's not about cost, it's about perception. The effects of space tourism is negligible now, but give it a few years, let an industry develop around it, and hey presto, your kids will have to choose between a family vacation at the grand canyon or on the moon.

    • Re:Space travel is expensive (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Fjornir ( 516960 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:46AM (#7752309)
      I consider eight to ten days in orbit to be considerably more than a quick ride on the pukelator.

    • Re:Space travel is expensive (Score:4, Insightful)

      by -noefordeg- ( 697342 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:47AM (#7752479)
      "'d rather spend my $20,000,000 on a long vacation in Moraco."

      Well, duh! Don't you think he's done that too? I'm pretty sure he hasn't got exactly $20mill but probably a little more or maybe A LOT more $$$.

      If I had $21mill I would have done this at once. You've got one life, why spend it in Monaco with greedy and utterly boring people with probably nothing more to think about than what to wear and when they do open their mouth the utter stupidity of what's being said will make your braincells wither away. Also.... If you are a normal person you'll get bored at a place like Monaco after a weekend...

      G'damn... I would love to be able to be in space *sigh*

      Better patent something fast!

      • I think it would be great to go into orbit around earth... but...

        What I REALLY want to do is go visit a different star or see an incoming galaxy rise in the sky over a planet as two galaxies verge on collision. I want to visit a black hole and see what's inside one. I want to go to Europa or fly into the interior of Jupiter. I want to visit a quasar and a pulsar and I want to be IN a galactic collision while it's happening. I want to fly PAST the edge of the Universe's expansion.

        *sigh* ....

        I guess I'

    • When I'll have that much money I'll worry then ;)
    • If this guy has enough money to splurge on going into space why is he still a real estate developer. If I had that much money I'd retire (I hope) and be giving a lot of it away to people who could make better use of it. I seems to me that no matter how much people have they are always working for more, perhaps aiming for a satisfactory amount of wealth or achievements that nobody seems to reach. After flying through space as a tourist I can't think of much more that you can strive towards, but I bet this

  • Damnit! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:34AM (#7752273)
    Damnit! I spent my $20,000,000 buying SCO licenses for my Beowulf cluster...

  • Miles? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:35AM (#7752277)
    Does anyone remember just how many frequent flyer miles I would need to get one of those other spots?

    • Re:Miles? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:39AM (#7752287)
      300? The ISS is only 300 miles away from earth.
      • Throwing mod points away here, but by that reasoning, London is 0 miles from earth, just as any other destination is. At times, the ISS can be further from you than any place in the world.
        • London is 0 miles away from earth by any reasoning...
          • You deliberately read my post out of context - for your benefit I'll take the subtleties out and get to the point.

            Your grandparent (slashdot context, since I guess you'll pull me up on that too) said that "The ISS is only 300 miles away from earth", which isn't incorrect, just misleading. At present, the ISS could in fact be more than 12,000km away from YOU/ME get it?

            Secondly, London is not "0 miles away from earth by any reasoning...".

            1. Ask any pilot what the mean distance above sea level his runway is,
      • The ISS makes a complete orbit around the earth every 90 minutes or so. That's about 26,720 km/h (16,603 mph.) If you're up there for 8 days, that's 3,187,776 miles.

        The whole REASON that it stays in orbit at that height is because it's moving so f'ing fast, nimrod. Why was this AC modded up for such a misleading post? Isn't this slashdot, where you'd expect to at least see correct info about nerdish crap like this? If I travel from San Francisco to New York is the distance measured by the change in el
        • hrmm, escape velocity is around ~17,500 MPH, at 16,603 the ISS would be a meteor in a matter of months .... me thinks.
          • Huh? Because it's going slower than escape velocity it will eventually escape anyway? That makes no sense. Escape velocity by definition is the minimum speed you must travel to escape the pull of gravity. BTW, things in geosynchronous orbit travel much slower (they have a period of 24 hours instead of 90 minutes) and yet they still remain in orbit.

            Data taken from here [space.gc.ca].

  • ... then with the X-prize candidates just about to really go for it (2 weeks left for them to claim the prize), they may cut you a deal, of course it's a bit more of a gamble... :-)

    Simon

    • Re:If you're feeling lucky (Score:4, Interesting)

      by fucksl4shd0t ( 630000 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:11AM (#7752379) Homepage Journal

      I thought they had until the end of 2004 to claim the prize? I mean, really, Armadillo Aerospace has been planning on launching something in January for testing to compete for the X-prize. Why would they still be planning on competing for the X-prize if launching a test in January would already be too late? (I also remember reading it, but I checked the X-prize site and couldn't find it, other than a reference in the FAQ to the fact that they think it is likely someone will do it before January '05)

  • Pre-boarding conversation... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Channard ( 693317 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:40AM (#7752289) Journal
    'Here you so, sir! Your tickets. Welcome to the Space Shuttle.'

    'Thanks.. er, why does my ticket say 'ballast' on it, instead of my name?'

    'Er, merely a formality sir. Now if you just take your seat in the 'duct taped to the wing' section.'

  • so how much of this actually goes to the space agencies involved, and how much do these private companies keep.

  • How much are the Insurance costs? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Richard M. Nixon ( 697603 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:43AM (#7752300) Homepage Journal
    I imagine they would sign some sort of "I will not sue you, and my family won't sue you if I die in a horrible accident." kinda contract. But will that really prevent family from trying to sue later?

    Then again, I don't think an insurance policy exists that you could buy for this sort of thing. And it wouldn't make sense anyway since the very concept of insurance requires lots of people to buy into the system.

    Maybe the people running it go up into space each time as well, that way if there is a horrible accident and the client/s die, they die too and don't have to worry about litigation.

    This sort of business gives new meaning to extreme sports do at your own stupid risk activity. Add that to the expense and this is truely the sport of kings.

    • Re:How much are the Insurance costs? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      insurance policies don't need lots of people, you can buy special insurance for 'disasters'.

      the funny thing about 911 was how they had insurance for one of the towers falling down but not both.

    • Only in America (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:55AM (#7752335) Journal

      Yeah, I know, you're all going to mod me down for being critical, but honestly, where else in the world would the question of a lawsuit be even asked, should the thing blow up ?

      It's a bloody dangerous thing to do. Accept that. Take responsibility for accepting that and "either do, or do not, there is no 'try it and sue'", to horribly paraphrase Yoda.

      Simon.

      • Re:Only in America (Score:4, Interesting)

        by shanen ( 462549 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:28AM (#7752432) Homepage Journal
        You know that they're going to have to waive every form of liability under the sun before they get anywhere near the thing. Not only them, but every relative unto the fourth cousin twice removed will have to sign, too. Probably current employeers, past employeers for the past 10 years, and any company the "astroballast" might potentially work for in the future will have to agree.

        However, all things considered, it's probably safe enough. Sad to say, the Russians have the better safety record. They've already launched a tourist successfully, while America lost one of the two we launched. (Or was it three?)

    • Re:How much are the Insurance costs? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Shihar ( 153932 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:41AM (#7752467)
      I imagine normal life insurance would probably cover dying in such an accident. I find it doubtful that your life insurance has a clause in it that says you don't get any money if you die in a space. It probably is not something insurance companies ever thought of including and so, unlike say sky diving, probably still results in coverage.
      • I seriously doubt it. Most life insurance policies do not even cover you when flying light aircraft. I (along with most every other pilot) had to take out a life insurance policy just for flying!
      • > I imagine normal life insurance would probably cover dying in such an accident.

        You severely underestimate the scheming underhandedness of the insurance agencies. Their job is to take money from you, then figure out how NOT to pay you what you are deserved. I guarantee they would not pay out if the policy holder died in space. It's hard enough to get those shady bastards to pay when the holder is on the ground.
      • I wouldn't be so sure. I bet some policies have clauses related to activities that a person voluntarily embarks on that involve "significant chance of serious injury or death" or some crap. In other words, if you went out and got a million dollar life insurance policy and then jumped off a high cliff because you thought Red Bull gave you wings, well, do you think they would cover your sorry ass?
    • well, if you look at last year european launchs... you could see that they blew up and were inssurance covered. It's a game... you pay me a billion, if it blows up, I pay you 2, if not.. say goodbye to your million :)
    • But will that really prevent family from trying to sue later?

      Yep, because the contract has the full backing of the Russian government (and military, if it came to that). You can sue foreign governments, but it's pretty difficult to collect, and the cost is probably way more than the money you would lose.

      Plus, do you really want to see Vladimir Putin get mad? How would you tell?

  • I for one.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Channard ( 693317 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:43AM (#7752301) Journal
    .. am incensed by the lack of opportunity for 'evil overlord jokes'. Damn you Nasa, you insensitive clods!

  • I bet when they get up there (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They'll STILL find that all the best spots around the pool have been reserved by Germans.

  • Are one-way tickets available? (Score:4, Funny)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:44AM (#7752305) Homepage Journal
    I'm sure I could scrape together $10,000,000 for an xmas gift to our beloved Eisner.

  • I bet that... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Channard ( 693317 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @04:50AM (#7752323) Journal
    Deep Vein Thrombosis is going to be a bitch in space...

  • Finally a 'cheap' way to pick up chicks . . (Score:5, Funny)

    by OverlordQ ( 264228 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:01AM (#7752355) Journal
    "So what do you do?"

    "I'm a real estate developer . . and in my spare time I'm an astronaut."
    • You know, this reminds me last year I saw Dennis Tito give a talk about his experience as a space tourist. What a boring guy. He made it seem like a slide show of his trip to the beach or something. Almost all of the wonder and amazement seemed to be lost on him. He just seemed proud to have been able to afford it. At least that was my impression.

      Made me think that traveling into space is a kind of privelige that we should bestow upon those worthy of it...
    • If you have a $20 million wad to blow on something this frivolous, something tells me you don't have any problem picking up chicks. As in, you could probably find plenty that would let you do a line of coke off their ass in return for driving around in the ferrari and playing barbie in the mansion.
  • a Manhattan real estate developer?!
    what does he need to go to the moon for?
    he's already living on it!!! :)

  • Be patient and keep saving (Score:5, Informative)

    by Lagrange5 ( 267948 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:03AM (#7752361)
    Save your money and wait for private enterprise to catch up. It may not be that far away.

    With the good news that Scaled Composites' SpaceShipOne flew beyond the speed of sound yesterday, affordable space tourism may be possible within our lifetimes. Granted, Scaled may yet have quite a long way to go to reach space, but they made a leap in the right direction on an historic day. My money's on Burt Rutan and his team to take the X-Prize (but I'd have said that before yesterday).

    So if you're say, under 40, there's a good chance you could be able to visit space before your 60th birthday. So be patient. It won't be a seller's market forever.
    • No, the parent is plain wrong. The costs of getting to space will never "catch up" until long after we all have our own tiny submarines, garaged hovercraft, and nanotech housekeepers. Using this logic, we should all have flown on the Concorde after 5 years or so... didn't happen.

      As hard as it is to believe, escape velocity is expensive, friends! If the spurrious parent argument's held water, then we would already be there, no? Yuri Gagarin first flew in space over 4 DECADES ago, and I still don't see a
    • So what? SpaceShipOne is only designed to meet the requirements of the X-prize competition goal of 100km altitude - which is barely even halfway to low earth orbit (LEO). The Space Shittle* can make WAY higher, and soyuz even higher. LEO isn't even leaving the atmosphere completely, just skimming it's highest layer. The only reasonably useful commercial application i've heard of for x-prize vehicles is extremely high altitude skydiving. This is what the Canadian Arrow (http://www.canadianarrow.com/) X-prize

  • few suggestions (Score:3, Interesting)

    by abhisarda ( 638576 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:05AM (#7752368) Journal
    Maybe Lance Bass can still hitch a one way ticket to nowhere.
    On the other hand.. I have an cutout scan [netfirms.com] from a newspaper(1956) about a London travel company taking reservations to the moon for the year 2040. Cost? Just 12,000 quid.
  • Is Trump 38?
  • You're not allowed to develop real estate on the moon. And he thought he was going to break even on his trip... So who owns the moon? SCO, of course. Because they've got the title. You have to pay SCO a few million dollars and sign your life away to get the rights to see their title to the moon, but the title is bonafide. Or so they say.

  • Surely a better use of the money... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Channard ( 693317 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:23AM (#7752415) Journal
    .. would be to donate it to a local hospital or charity or something, perhaps enough to fund a ward in your name or something. That way you'd be known for something less altruistic than going up into the emptiness of space for the sake of it, *and* the people in question would have people reminded daily of them, after their death.
    • .. to hire people with sharp sticks to poke anyone who uses the words 'or something' twice in the same sentence. Damn my non post-previewing hide.

    • Re:Surely a better use of the money... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Shihar ( 153932 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:50AM (#7752489)
      Yeah, 20 million probably is better spent on charity or invested into some life saving research. However, it is a tad hypocritical for most people to make such a statement. I know I bought myself a new computer that I didn't need. The only difference between my selfish act and these space tourists is magnitude. If a rich guy wants to blow 20 million on a life's dream, more power to him. I would do the same thing in his position.

      If it is any consolation, it very could lead to some greater benefit for mankind. These first few spending money on something so expensive and risky very well could encourage someone somewhere to develop better spaceflight for the purpose of tourism. Even if you don't consider cheaper space tourism as a benefit for humankind, things learned the development of the industry could benefit humankind.

      One of the brighter sides of capitalism is that even selfish acts can lead to improving the greater good, even if it is just an accidental consequence of someone's selfish desires.
      • However, it is a tad hypocritical for most people to make such a statement. I know I bought myself a new computer that I didn't need. The only difference between my selfish act and these space tourists is magnitude.

        Yeah, but what's the internet - about, if not criticizing the acts of others while not having a leg to stand on yourself?

    • Blah blah blah blah blah.

      Every time one of these articles pops up, we have self-righteous idiots saying what a waste it is, and wouldn't it be better to give that twenty million dollars to starving children in Africa or the local hospital?

      We don't go around telling you what to do with that twenty you have in your pocket. It's his money. Understand that concept? He owns that money and he can do whatever he wants to do with it within the law. If he wants to get it in $100 bills and have a bonfire, that's hi
      • There's quite a lot of ethical outlooks (such as utilitarianism, as well as many interpretations of Christianity) that suggest that it is morally wrong to blow your wealth for your own amusement.
        • What is the ethical difference between buying yourself a candy bar or an amusement park ticket, and buying a ride into space?

          The way I see it, the only difference is in magnitude. Just as the $20 million could have been spent on charity, so could the $1 for the candy bar or the $40 for the amusement park. I've never met somebody who didn't occasionally buy something useless for their own amusement. And while you could say that it's simply a matter of not being completely able to follow your beliefs, just l

      • If he wants to get it in $100 bills and have a bonfire, that's his right. If he wants to spend it on expensive cars which he then crushes with a wrecking ball, that's his right. If he wants to fund a dot-com startup with no business plan, that's his right. If he wants to go to the space station for a week, and somebody's willing to take him there, that's his right.

        If some guy on Slashdot wants to critisize him for wasting his money, that's his right.

        Oh, sorry. I forgot where I was for a moment. Here o

    • Surely a better use of your time would be to volunteer at a local hospital?

  • Call me a troll... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by James A. C. Joyce ( 733782 ) on Thursday December 18, 2003 @05:59AM (#7752510) Homepage Journal
    ...but who the hell cares? Does this actually benefit humanity in any way, shape or form? I totally doubt that two space tourists are going to make space holidays or astrofaring more accessible for the rest of us. I'd just wait for private enterprise in general to catch up; as it is, this is just money which could be spent more productively.
    • The *good news* is that there are people willing to fork out such a big amount of money. So if these launches continue at the current slow pace and the current high prices, some rich sponsors will read these things in the news and be more easily coaxed to fund the very private enterprises that are now building/planning a more low-cost solution to this new market. See it as some kind of advertisment saying: "see? even at these ridiculous costs there are people willing to go, we can do it x times cheaper, ima
    • You do bring up a good point, but I have a good answer. You see, I am building a rocket designed to take tourists to orbit. Until relatively recently, I was unable to prove that such an endevour would be profitable (so I have been self-funding, etc.). These launches, if nothing else, prove beyond doubt that a market exists. This is extremely important, because when I talk to prospective investors (including my wife...), I can point to an actual market that I believe can be grown.

    • since when is slashdot about helping humanity?

      Don't you think you should be doing something to help humanity insteed of posting on slashdot?
  • just for the ice cream. 20 million would be worth a weeks worth of astronaut icecream. :)_
  • Oh yes, I can't wait to pay $20 million for a 'holiday' trip to space where they will then make me WORK!

    Geez...I have enough trouble getting my first million, thankyouverymuch ;)

  • Space Hotel? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Bohnanza ( 523456 )
    So basically, my taxes have gone to pay for a space hotel for billionaires.
    • Luxury goods are great. You don't like paying out the nose for the ISS? Fine -- these folks have just dumped a phenemonal sum of money that will be used to help fund space work. It's all about redistribution of wealth.
      • "those folks" have dumped a PIDDLING sum of money compared to the total cost of the ISS. WE payed for the station, they pay to play astronaut. The "space work" coming from the station is practically nil. Wake up.
        • WE payed for the station, they pay to play astronaut

          That's irrelevant for a number of reasons. They're up there for a week. There are six crew members. The estimated lifetime is 10 years, and the total cost probably in the neighborhood of $25 billion.

          So, let's work out what the value of your ISS taxes are in terms of station depreciation (yes, this is an awfully simplified model).

          $25000 million/ 6 astronauts at a time / 52 weeks in a year / 10 years = approximately $8 million dollars.

          So they're actu
  • "A 38 year old real estate developer." Wow, I'm 31 and don't have nearly the net worth this guy has. I'm not even thinking about space, I'm thinking, "My God, what did this guy do to get to that point at such a young age?" Screw space, I'd just want the money!
    • "My God, what did this guy do.."

      He probably bought, developed and sold some real-estate at a huge profit.

      However, since he is only 38, most likely this guy is not a self-made multi-millionaire.

      For example, Donald Trump is most often cited as the genius wunderkid who became rich in real-estate at a young age but even Donald Trump got there only because he was helped by his father. Donald's "first" multi-million dollar property (an apartment complex) was actually bought, developed and sold by his fathe

  • Please let it be Darl
    Please let it be Darl
    Please let it be Darl

  • better things to do with $20M (Score:3, Funny)

    by mabu ( 178417 ) * on Thursday December 18, 2003 @11:20AM (#7754157)
    In honor of the many replies on whether this is a waste of money, let me suggest some better things to do with $20 Million:

    * Hire Van Halen and The Who to play at your birthday party

    * Run 5 commercials during the Superbowl

    * Kill yourself and watch every distant relative you've hardly ever spent time with come out of the wood work and crawl over your material posessions like maggots.

    * Get into some questionable relationship with a young child and pay off the parents who threaten to take it public.

    * Hire a D.C. lobbyist to promote the further reduction of the capital gains tax.

    * Fund the new "Reagan Dime"

    * Create a new reality TV show that makes contestants watch other reality TV shows. Call it "Really Real TV."

    * Buy a bunch of SCOX stock

    * Fund a feasibility study into the mating habits of the Duckbill Platapus

    * Hire Johnny Cochran and F. Lee Bailey and make them scrub your toilets.

    * Sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom

    * Change the name of your favorite sports arena or convention center

    * Buy every employee at Apple a brand new VW

    * Produce a new Nick Cage or Van Damme movie

  • Contrary to their Soviet space history, the Russians are way over schedule and budget on their ISS contribution, holding up the entire project to the point of jeopardizing its completion. NASA is keeping the program going, with Americans footing the bill for the rest of the world, as usual. But these space tourists will be using Soyuz, with a cut of their fare going to Russia. Meanwhile, Russia is spending rubles on laser sails to the outer solar system, while we get stuck with the boondoggle. Where's the l
  • When one of the spare seats goes up for sale on lastminute.com

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