Japanese Train Sets A Speed Record Of 581 kph 764
Azuma writes "Last night, on December 2, a high-speed Japanese train set a new record of 581 kph, breaking its own previous record. The new Maglev high speed had real passengers on board this time. They proved that the distance between Osaka and Tokyo can be covered in one hour's time. However, we wouldn't see real trains for a while now since the cost is prohibitively expensive at this time. However, they expect that the cost would come down over the next 20 years. This seems to be the future of transportation, at least in Japan. Here is a detailed article from The Japan Times."
Re:Ouch... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Bet those passengers were scared out of their pants. With it flying that fast, I'd be...if the thing derailed, you'd be really screwed.
I've ridden some of the current shinkasens, and you really don't notice. It's a very smooth ride, and you feel very safe. The best I can compare it to is flying on an airplane, only quieter and smoother.Re:Ouch... (Score:2, Insightful)
Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:5, Insightful)
I just wish the US would invest in more passenger trains. They don't have to be super fast (like the one in this article), but imagine how much fuel/electricity we could save if we could all easily commute by train. And hey, you can always sleep on the train on the way to work, something you can't do while driving. (Or rather, something you shouldn't do, I'm sure someone's tried it.)
Re:Ouch... (Score:5, Insightful)
And much less hassle as well.
Train:- Arrive 5 minutes before departure.
- Get on.
- Travel, with passport check on the way.
- Get off.
Airplane:I, for one, welcome our new super-fast trains. I've used the 300kph trains (TGV,Eurostar,etc) and they are a really nice way to get around. For travelling within continents, these will a far better alternative than flying.
Re:Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think passenger trains will ever catch on in The States. The population is just too spread out right now. Japan is roughly the size of California but with half the population of the US (If I recall correctly.) You just can't fit all those people on the roads at 1 or 2 people per car. And besides, how will all the salarymen molest the school girls if they're in a car and not crammed into a train
Re:Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:5, Insightful)
Too bad most places don't invest in more trains. However, investment usually implies a return, and most train companies lose money. The more captalistic a country is, the worse this becomes... note in the article " Central Japan Railway Co. (JR Tokai) and the government-affiliated Railway Technical Research Institute." that it's a state sponsored initiative getting these things going.
The French TGV is one good example of a system that works, but it's not easy to replicate economically in a country like the UK where there is public outcry at any possible addition of rail links or something close to where they live (and population density is three times higher than France, so routing around people isn't as easy). The Eurostar now has high speed track for part of the link in the UK, shaving 20 minutes off total journey time, but the route is incredibly inefficient and could have been much more direct. Also, it was way off schedule!
The US gave up on trains long ago. Flights and cars are all there is, Amtrak is a joke. Ironic that the rail revolution made the US what it is today, and it has to be the major economy that has turned its back on rail the most. High speed services coast to coast would undoubtedly be too expensive though. I think there must be a magic ratio between average distance travelled by passengers, total country size, train running cost and so on which the TGV manages to get close to. The TGV rocks.
Re:Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:5, Insightful)
That actually sounds more like a reason why it would be sensible to have a rail system to me, rather than a reason it hasn't got one.
Re:Converted to MPH (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Ouch... (Score:0, Insightful)
Get on.
You can bet that this will change with these trains. The costs are high enough that it becomes a target so Security will be done.
Twenty Years ago... (Score:3, Insightful)
At least in central europa (germany, france, benelux) we have conventional trains running at speeds of 150-300kph since decades. But then europa has a highly incompatible trainsystem. Western Europa (except once Great Britain) uses one type of track, eastern europa another one and while the british system closely resembles western europas tracks its not safe for high speeds.
Thank goodness china desided to use western-europa tracks which will more or less force eastern europa and russia to adopt or wither away.
Re:Ouch... (Score:5, Insightful)
So right and So wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
These 4 cities have more traffic between them than any other route in the USA. In fact, most airlines make all their profits doing cargo between NY/Chg.
As to Chi->LA, well, I would argue for 3 East-west high-speed maglevs with stops every 1000M. Likeiwise, 4 North-South (W, Rocky, Missisppi River, E coast) to carry cargo.
Re:Semi off topic. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Ouch... (Score:5, Insightful)
From a terrorist point of view, I suspect that a building is a better target than a train: easier to get to, easier to get away from, and more likely to kill lots of people.
In fact, even when it comes to airline security, Americans seem to be going from one extreme to another without ever getting it right: prior to 9/11, airlines just didn't want to inconvenience passengers even though even simple measures could have prevented 9/11. Post 9/11, US airlines seem to be working hard to make their passengers' lives as miserable as possible (without necessarily improving security much).
Re:Japan is linear (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:5, Insightful)
1. In the past, Ford wanted automobiles to be affordable enough so that every American family could own one.
2. Gasoline is much cheaper in the US than in Europe and other parts of the world.
3. In many parts of the US, it is impossible to get by without a car.
4. Americans generally prefer privatization (own a car) over mass/public services.
Re:The time spent waiting for the train? (Score:2, Insightful)
More seriously, though, i disagree with you to some extent, having taken both the plane and the train extensively.
Waiting for another train or plane is exactly the same thing. They can be both delayed very easily by technical problems, weather problems, and strike (only if you are in France of course, by the way i am French).
But when i look at the trip Paris-London, i prefer taking the train. You have quite a big number of trains leaving everyday to London. The overall trip is around 2-3 hours depending on stop. But the big plus is you leave in the center of Paris, you arrive in the center of London.
Now when you look at the plane, you would be better off if you arrive at least one hour before (probably more as they get anal with security). Then you have 45 mn plane and you have to wait for your case, etc... But since the airports are far from the center, you can add easily 45 mn both ways to get from the airport to the center.
Annoying !!! I prefer moving more freely in the train and then to arrive directly in London, than having to take the plane.
Pelops
OK, lets privatize the roads then too (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:361MPH (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:3, Insightful)
Manchester to London is about 2 hours 30m, even on Virgin trains. Driving takes anything from 4 hours upwards, dependent on when you start. So if I have a London meeting I can do it in a day by train. If I go by car I can`t.
As far as I am concerned that makes it efficient. As for economic, if you actually added in all the costs, such as the time I save, the work I can do on the train, the telephone calls I can legally answer, the hotel bills I don`t have to pay, then the overall economic equation comes out much more evenly.
The road builder`s arguments never take the human factors into account.
Do I believe that rail travel is currently wonderful in the UK? Absolutely not, but it is much better than the Luddites in cars give it credit for.
Re:Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:3, Insightful)
As the nation grew, the auto industry fought to suppress the train industry and succeeded. Now trains are mostly relegated to freight. Sure there are occasional passenger train systems across the nation... there are two in my general area (DART and The-T) but AMTRAK doesn't exist out here. And since we all have cars instead of buses and trains (largely! must I qualify my assertions constantly?) our impressions of the buses and trains that DO exist are negative since they are often in our way! Buses are big and slow in busy city streets and you can't see around them. Rail crossings are also a bitter annoyance with accidents and long waits while trains cross our roads... now we HATE TRAINS and and HATE BUSES. It would be difficult for most Americans to see these methods as anything but an annoyance.
The only way for these views to be overcome is for there to be competition between trains and airlines as others have previously hinted. We're annoyed at air travel... ESPECIALLY NOW! Trains could be far more beneficial to business travellers today if there were a good rail system in place. The trouble is, as always, the cost of roll-out.
Now rolling out new technology in the US is not like doing it in smaller countries. If we didn't "grow" into it, and cannot easily "migrate" into it, then adoption will always be very slow. The fact is, we are a large continent. The cost of roll-out it enormous and the cost of failure is immeasurable. Japan is a very limited area so roll-out costs and failure costs are more acceptable. And since we are not a dictatorship, our government can't simply say "This is better so you will use it!" giving us no option but to change... we all have to want to change. We don't. We hate to change except when the TV tells us to... hrm... there's an idea...
Re:You talk about Europe as if it's a country. (Score:1, Insightful)
Ever heard of Thalys? It's a high-speed rail link between France, Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands operated jointly by these countries. At the moment you can travel from Paris to Brussel, Cologne and the Ruhr bassin on these trains and I believe the Brussels-Amsterdam portion is about to be completed. When it is, you'll be able to travel from Paris to Amsterdam in less than two hours. That's downtown to downtown. Compare this with the time it will take you to get to CDG, check in, pass security controls, board, fly 1 hours to Amsterdam, spend another 20 minutes in the plane while it gets to the gate (Schipol is one of the worst airports for that, the gates always seem to be miles away from the landing strips), wait for your baggage and get downtown.
That's just an example. The Eurostar has been in operation between France, Belgium and England for a couple of years now. The French are also working with the Italians to create a high-speed link to Milan and Northern Italy, across they Alps. There are also talks of linking the TGV Mediteranne with the Spanish TGV Network by adding a line between Perpignan and Barcelona.
For some reason, many Americans fear the EU and try to dismiss it as a heavy, socialist, frog-controlled superstructure that only brings burocracy and more taxes. I am the first one to concede that the burocracy sometimes appears overwhelming (but can you do things otherwise when 15 distinct governments speaking 12 languages try to work together?), but they do have a vision, along with 'coherent policies' and an agenda to implement them. I you wanted to use high-speed rail transport to ridicule the EU, you chose a very bad example.
Re:Ouch... (Score:2, Insightful)
even simple measures could have prevented 9/11
You mean like the passengers beating the crap out of some dorks with box cutters, rather than sitting like the trained sheep the left has been attempting to turn them into?
Re:361MPH (Score:3, Insightful)
What's simpler? 10 decimeters in a meter? 10 centimeters in a decimeter? Even the prefixes follow a standard pattern...
Compared to: 12 inches in a foot? 3 feet in a yard? fractions for fine measurements (1/8 inch, 1/16 inch)... ever have to reoganize a ratchet set?
Or how about: water freezes at 0 and boils at 100? Makes sense to me. Compare to: water freezes at 32 and boils at 212? God awful!
Re:Ouch... (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not the left that's been trying to do that... More like the right -- specifically "the establishment". I don't know how many times, I've seen news reports where the police have thanked some random 'citizen' for arresting some violent creep then followed up by saying that these things sre best left to police.
Even right-wing militia types seem well trained to follow orders.
Left wing types, on the other hand, are much more likely to chafe under orders, start mouthing off the attackers and lead a 'popular revolt' against them.
The myth of america being too spread out (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Vegas to LA (Score:3, Insightful)
Between getting a lot of road traffic off Interstate 15 between Los Angeles and Las Vegas and also reducing the need for air travel between Los Angeles and Las Vegas (imagine 375-450 passengers per train leaving four times per hour from Los Angeles to Las Vegas), that means a lot less air pollution from automobiles, buses and jet airliners.
Re:Ouch... (Score:3, Insightful)
They've been running since 1964. I would say almost 40 years of constant use with no accidents is a pretty damn fine record. JR are very good at safety.
Jedidiah
Re:Too bad the US doesn't invest in more trains (Score:3, Insightful)
What the auto industry killed was the local *trolley systems* (intraurban vice the interurban provided by the railroads).
Re:Ouch... (Score:3, Insightful)
> has been attempting to turn them into
The left what? The left hand? The left foot? Oh, you mean the Left! It seems your grasp of history is as tenuous as that of spelling, otherwise you'd know that a lot more social change has taken place because of public disobedience by what you call "the Left" than by (presumably) your own camp. Attributing conformism to the hippies of the 60s, or the civil rights marchers of the 50s, or even what you would probably consider the quintessential Lefties--the Bolsheviks of the Russian Revolution--smacks of ignorance and self delusion.
In fact, in recent history conformism is a trait much more frequently found amongst conservatives, or the Right. Who introduced the doctrine of "if you're not with us you're against us"? Or forwarded the notion that opposing the war in Iraq is paramount to being anti-American? Don't get distracted into addessing those particular issues, focus on the fact that they exemplify conformist thinking--behaving the way your leaders want you to as a matter of policy.
Re:Magnetic trains are just a dream (Score:2, Insightful)
(vibration, small bumps etc.)
The wheels are supposed to last for years running daily at that speed. (this is a big problem for high speed trains.)
MAGLEV has "no" moving parts.
eg. less material stress.. (safer and cheaper in the long run.)
MAGLEV's only limit is the air drag.
Re:Ouch... (Score:1, Insightful)
the trainwreck a few years back in germany was with the ICE. that's a cheaper and older construction very similar to the TGV, i.e. a normal (very fast) train on a track arrangement.
the worst part of the crash was that the different cars folded onto each other and into a bridge. the TGV supposedly has a more ridgid construction and should be, in similar circumstances, safer.
but still, ICE is pretty much a normal train.