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Space Science Technology

NASA Debates How And When To Kill Hubble Telescope 555

Amy's Robot writes "The Washington Post reports that after 13 years of wear and tear, the Hubble telescope may be on the way out. NASA and some outside scientists have become involved in a heated debate about how and when to end the Hubble telescope program. Keeping Hubble in service until 2020 would require an extra maintenance visit by astronauts at a cost of at least $600 million. Some even worry the batteries could fail by 2010, since the next maintenance visit has been delayed by the Columbia accident and space station priorities. Is it worth maintaining our old friend Hubble, or should NASA let him go out in a blaze of glory?"
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NASA Debates How And When To Kill Hubble Telescope

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  • For the time being. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nocomment ( 239368 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:48PM (#7494141) Homepage Journal
    Yes I think hubble should be maintained. At least until we get the Lunar observatory built. Then you will get some cool picures of hubble crashing into the sun.
  • Hubble Slide Show (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mad Man ( 166674 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:49PM (#7494155)
    Cool slide show of Hubble photographs at http://wires.news.com.au/special/mm/030811-hubble. htm [news.com.au]
  • Bring it Back? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ckotchey ( 184135 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:49PM (#7494160)
    I can't remember how Hubble was put up there - was it on a shuttle? If so, how feasible is it to just rope the thing in and bring it back? Is it worth the effort to do so and just fix it up, retrofit it, and re-launch, vs. dropping it out of the sky and building a new one?
  • by rarose ( 36450 ) <rob.robamy@com> on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:49PM (#7494163)
    It'd be great if they could bring it home in the Shuttle and put it in the Smithsonian... I'm certain the museum would hang it from the ceiling!
  • by rune.w ( 720113 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:50PM (#7494169)

    This may sound idealistic, but whether they choose to prolong the mission or not, NASA should definitely consider bringing back the Hubble. It has tought us so much about the universe, and it's such a great piece of History that it's worth to be displayed in a place like the Smithsonian.

    R,
  • Is it possible... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by hookedup ( 630460 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:51PM (#7494196)
    To push it out of our orbit, and see what kind of images is gets while it heads out of our solar system (and beyond maybe)? Or is is calibrated in such a way that it can only serve its purpose from our orbit?
  • Hubble trouble? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:52PM (#7494202) Journal
    Hubble bubble, toil and trouble...

    Seriously, without knowing how much work is involved, would it be possible for NASA to retreive Hubble with a shuttle after a routine mission had been completed? Hubble has taught us so much it deserves to be retained in a museum somewhere. In a way, it's been as important to astronomers and astrophysicists as perhaps the Wright brothers' flyer was to aviators. It would be a crying shame to let it just burn up in the atmosphere.
  • by gorilla ( 36491 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:57PM (#7494243)
    I think the HST is too heavy for the shuttle to bring down. The mass that they can lift is significantly larger than the mass that they can return to Earth.
  • by amichalo ( 132545 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @01:57PM (#7494247)
    If you haven't read the article, just taking amoment to read the first paragraph really summarizes it to me. I was just a teen when Hubble was launched but the images of space that Hubble gave me were a personal experience, though I have no connection to the industry of space exploration in the slightest.

    To me, it seems like destroying Hubble is not a fitting end to a tool that has built so much for us for over a decade.

    So I wonder, why are devices like Hubble not built to be retooled - built with some type of standard socket connections so batteries, comupters, lenses, etc. could be more easily upgraded by swapping out major units and bolting them together on a frame just like a computer?

    Would a shift in design principles not be the ultimate homage to Hubble, that it would live on as inspiration for developing space exploration devices that were upgradable? ...On the other hand, didn't they think of all these things 13 years ago when the were launching Hubble?
  • Re:$600 Million (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Zardoz44 ( 687730 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:02PM (#7494307) Homepage
    Cheaper than $6 Million [space.com]?

    Not the same, but you can't ignore the price.

  • A way to save it...? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gudlyf ( 544445 ) <.moc.ketsilaer. .ta. .fyldug.> on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:03PM (#7494317) Homepage Journal
    I wonder if it's at all possible or feasible to figure out a way to attach it to the space station. Then it can be either maintained by crew on the station from time to time (since the space station seems to be where we're keeping or interests/people), or slowly scrapped. There's gotta be a few million $$ of parts that can be reused on that sucker, no?
  • by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:04PM (#7494336) Journal
    Link [nasa.gov]

    Therefore a logical decommissioning date would be just after the new scope is up and checks out functionally.

    Has anyone thought about automating this stuff? Make these things modular so unmanned robots can do the servicing and updating. Embed little marker tags into the craft so an approaching repair-bot can find its way around, like those robots that follow colored lines on the floor.

  • Cold Storage Option (Score:5, Interesting)

    by oldstrat ( 87076 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:06PM (#7494353) Journal


    There have been several options listed ...

    a - burn it up

    b - bring it back (maybe if the transporter survives the trip)

    c - patch it (and give up other items)

    and myabe others I missed in the convoluted article.

    But one I didn't see in the article was to give it a good hard shove and put it into solar, or translunar orbit.

    If this option were followed there would be a chance that it could be retieved later when bugdets were better, or could serve as a permanent exhibit in an solar space museum if we ever get serious about getting off this rock in a more permanent way.

    The destruction of our orbital heritige is a symptom of our throw away society, the mass has been moved the hardest part of the journey.
    Why waste the effort spent by turning it into terrestrial litter.
  • by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:08PM (#7494376) Journal

    Or develop some multi-billion dollar, space-qualified gimbal mounting.

    Nah, the attitude/orbital requirements for the scope and the station are just too different.

    Plus the vibrations from the space station everytime someone sneezes or touches anything would probably ruin your images.

  • E-bay... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dr. Zowie ( 109983 ) * <slashdotNO@SPAMdeforest.org> on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:21PM (#7494515)
    ...need I say more?
  • by October_30th ( 531777 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:28PM (#7494571) Homepage Journal
    I don't see any problem with IR.

    Check out the pictures [harvard.edu] taken using the other end of the spectrum, namely X-rays.

    Take the wonderfully violent Crab Nebula [harvard.edu] for instance. Just marvellous.

  • by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:56PM (#7494856) Journal
    A good solar shield covered with some solar cells! What're the options for powering a satellite (not really a satellite anymore if its 1.5 mil KM away) when you can't step out and fix it? Nuclear power, Solar cells, ummmm... nuclear power. Actually you wouldn't need nuclear power, you could just setup a steam powered turbine. As long as the heat is vented far enough from the main circuitry/optics you won't have to worry about slowly cooking your sat to death.

    for those who don't know, the whole point of a nuclear reactor is to provide lots of heat to boil liquids for a turbine generator. You wouldn't need to do this if you can use all those microwaves and hard radiation floating around space. con: water is heavy. pro: water blocks radiation and it never needs replacing

  • by JungleBoy ( 7578 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @02:59PM (#7494883)
    b - bring it back (maybe if the transporter survives the trip)

    I believe that until the Colombia crash, NASA had planned on bringing HST back onboard a shuttle. Unfortunately, Colombia was the only orbiter still setup to carry the HST in the cargo bay. The other three orbiters have ISS docking modules in the cargo hold and don't have room for Hubble.

    The JungleBoy
  • Re-entry vehicle? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Whammy666 ( 589169 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @03:03PM (#7494913) Homepage
    What's the possibility of placing Hubble inside a special re-entry vehicle (perhaps a big tube with heat shield) and parachuting it down like the old apollo spacecraft did? It's seems like such a waste to destroy such a significant part of space history.
  • by ToSeek ( 529348 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @03:21PM (#7495076)
    The second one failed in April [spaceflightnow.com]. If Hubble only had two working gyros, it would be shut down until repairs could be made (as was done in 1999). Three is the minimum required for pointing the telescope (one for each dimension).
  • Re:Must die? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by molszewski ( 655889 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @03:36PM (#7495239)
    Why not just attach this throwaway rocket and instead of aiming it to fall in one of earth's oceans, aim it at the moon just to see what happens! I mean, why not?! think how cool that would be to have a crater in the shape of the hubble telescope to preserve its memory forever...or at least until another telescope is destroyed on the moon ;)
  • Re:Well... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mukaikubo ( 724906 ) <gtg430b@pris m . g atech.edu> on Monday November 17, 2003 @04:04PM (#7495489) Journal
    Let me put it this way... the space elevator is to most spacecraft designers what string theory is to some physicists; Yes, it is a good idea. No, it's probably not going to work, and even if it could, we could never test it / build it. So it's really a moot point, and holding out hope for it is unproductive. Like it or not, we're stuck with chemical propellants for the forseeable future for Earth Access to Orbit.
  • by supernova87a ( 532540 ) <kepler1@@@hotmail...com> on Monday November 17, 2003 @04:08PM (#7495513)
    there is a lot of truth to this parent comment.

    In fact, at a meeting in Washington this past summer to debate the future of HST, one of the most interesting presentations was by the editor of Sky and Telescope. He pointed out that despite the optimistic timelines for launching new satellites, not a single one has come in on schedule, and in fact HST itself was delayed for seven years beyond the projected launch date. "few [amateur astronomers] will put any faith in NASA's claim that HST's successor will be in orbit by 2011."

    And HST was built with only modestly new components. The next space telescope is now being designed with some very new technology -- including the biggest mirror ever lofted into space -- and you think there will be no delays or unforseen difficulties?

    His final point was that much of the science as well as amateur community benefits and takes interest from the very existence and productivity of Hubble, and to take away a working observatory for the mere promise of one "next year" or "in 5 years" would be a big blow to astronomy.

    for his report, see here [nasa.gov]
  • Re:Makes me feel old (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Bemopolis ( 698691 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @04:13PM (#7495580)
    Hubble was SUPPOSED to launch while I was getting my undergraduate astro degree. The shuttle problems of the mid-80's delayed its launch until my graduate work, and the spherical aberration wasn't corrected until after I'd switched grad schools in 1993. My PhD used two Hubble data sets taken in the late 90's, and my post-graduate work involves yet more Hubble data.

    And now, under orders from a White House (filled to bursting with creationists), some nickel and diming paper-pushers are considering frying it like a corn dog at the state fair. And let's not discuss how they are stripping down the James Webb telescope.

    So, I guess it makes me feel older. Good run while it lasted though.

    Bemopolis

  • Re:Well... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mukaikubo ( 724906 ) <gtg430b@pris m . g atech.edu> on Monday November 17, 2003 @04:18PM (#7495633) Journal
    It's not impossible- from a physics and theoretical point of view. What I have yet to see addressed, however, are several 'peripheral' issues like security (Both from humans and from nature- has anyone thought of the consequences of weather on a really big, tall, presumably current-conducting filament?). Or operations/safety (How DO you repair it if a car breaks down in the grey area between upper atmosphere and lower orbit, say, 60 nautical miles up? Can't get a plane there. Can't get an orbiting vehicle there. Climbing would take hours if not days, while cargo could be rotting or people could be dying. Or extensive micrometeoroid impacts on that same grey region. Or power generation at the orbiting terminus; you certainly can't pipe power up there from the ground (current carrying filament being dragged through a changing terrestrial magnetic field? Say goodbye to stability, hello to torque!) and solar panel arrays are prone to failure if used in the long term. And so on... Those are just two major points I've never seen addressed in any comprehensive way. Certainly, in theory, it's the best Earth-Orbit system. But I remain unconvinced as to its practicality.
  • by WoTG ( 610710 ) on Monday November 17, 2003 @05:23PM (#7496275) Homepage Journal
    Too bad no one else (i.e. Russia, China, or Europe(?)) has anything big enough to go and fetch the Hubble. They'd be willing to take on that task on contract if they could. What would be even more entertaining would be a "finders-keepers" mission. =)

    Wouldn't that be a fun newscast... What are the ownership laws over space objects, anyway? I suppose there must be a treaty of some sort to discourage satellite hijacking. How about abandoned space junk?
  • Re:Must die? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 17, 2003 @06:29PM (#7496984)
    Of course, it'll be an incandescent softball surrounded by plasma and moving at 25,000 kph. But hey, nothing Johnny Bench couldn't handle.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 17, 2003 @09:53PM (#7498635)
    ...what we are seeing are the death throes of the U.S. space program. It became a sealed fate after Congress cut funding to the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project. The only thing left to do in space that is beneficial to anyone is maintaining spy and weather satellites, and some might speculate that the fine line between those two is thinning rapidly. If I were a betting man, I would go get your cameras and take some Shuttle pictures if it flies again, because it will be the last manned spacecraft that we develop, unless it's a black project...which might as well not exist as far as we, the average citizen, is concerned.

Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU. -- Mt.

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