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Biotech Science

Hackers On Atkins 918

`Sean writes "Salon.com has published a story about Hackers on Atkins. Although going on a diet is the last thing on the minds of the stereotypical geek basking in the ambient radiation of multiple monitors for 15 hours per day, many hackers have been embracing Atkins because utilizing low-carb methods to modify the metabolism is analogous to hacking and overclocking the body. Others have been combining Atkins with other systems, such as John Walker's The Hacker's Diet. I've personally lost a hundred pounds so far and will toss in the obligatory if I can do it, anyone can ism."
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Hackers On Atkins

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  • by KDan ( 90353 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:28PM (#7372585) Homepage
    From what I've heard, Atkins is extremely harsh on your kidneys, with some seriously bad side-effects when you use it for prolonged periods. Surely getting thin is not worth dying or having permanent renal damage for...

    Daniel
  • by bucketoftruth ( 583696 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:33PM (#7372619)
    Eat less, excercise more. It's free and easy. It's covered under the GNU diet license so feel free to share with other fatties.

  • by Ieshan ( 409693 ) <ieshan@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:33PM (#7372623) Homepage Journal
    That's the most ridiculous crap I've ever heard. If you're in dialysis someday with kidney failure, you'll realize that your health is far more important than social perception.
  • by AntiPasto ( 168263 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:35PM (#7372637) Journal
    ...but exercise!!! Most of us eat right, etc, but are actually fairly imobile people. Get up! Get out! Walk around!!!!!! Not just for weight loss or building muscle, but just to be healthy.

    Also, its good to eat a regular portion. If you stuffed yourself, you probably ate too much. Most restaurants will give you a dump-truck full so long as you hit their price point or $5~7 per person.

    IANAD, but that's just my thoughts.

  • Come on People! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Kanan ( 527196 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:36PM (#7372643)
    Atkins is okay, but there are better systems out there. Just focusing on diet isn't going to make a person healthy. You need to exercise, and especially strength-train. I would devote about 2/3 of my workout to full-body strength training, and 1/3 to cardio if you are trying to lose weight, and only work out 5 tims a week for 45 minutes. More is not better because of muscle catabolism that starts to really kick in after 45 minutes for most people. You should take in high GI carbs right after a workout, and ingest 1.5g of protein per pound of lean body mass. If you utilize the GI index and just take in very-low GI carbs, such as garbonzo beans, you can still have a carb rich diet instead of using Atkins. Atkins is right about these sugary foodsI eat 4 cans of tuna with brown mustard, 2 cans of garbonzo beans, several protein shakes, a turkey sandwich, and lots of milk. I get about 240g of protein a day. I used to be a small guy at 5'10" and 135lbs, then after a couple years of college I was 180lbs without any extra muscle, now I am back at 185lbs, but with only 11% body fat. I still have work to do, I'd like to by 185lbs at 7% bodyfat. I thought I would share this information with all of you. I hope it helps somebody change their life for the better.
  • Not a good idea (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:37PM (#7372661)
    I thought it was great at first because I lost about 10 pounds in a short 2 weeks. But the diet changed my eating habits so much that I wasn't able to keep it off when I reached my goal. I gained it all back, _plus_ an extra 10 pounds. I wouldn't recommend it. Stick with the tried-and-true ELF diet (Eat Less Food) combined with a 15-30 minutes of excercise every few days and the weight will come off eventually. It will take longer, but it will actually stay off.
  • by Ieshan ( 409693 ) <ieshan@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:38PM (#7372675) Homepage Journal
    This has to be the most ridiculous comparison for a diet I've ever heard. Instead of overclocking - pushing the body to do more (maybe working out?) - the Atkins diet makes the body digest itself because of carbohydrate depravation.

    Want to know what the Atkins diet is like, in Nerd terms? It's like discarding all but 2 megs of ram and cannibalising your disk as virtual memory / swap space. "Hey, I'll save money by not buying a gym membership by just starving my body!"
  • Dieting (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nuggz ( 69912 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:42PM (#7372722) Homepage
    Most people have terrible diets.

    Fancy systems may or may not work, they may or may nto have nasty side effects.

    The one that I think works best is simple.

    Eat less and healthier, get some excercise, and drink water.

    Few points, it is cheaper then most systems.
    It is probaly cheaper then your current unhealthy diet. Drinking enough water, or excercising alone are going to improve your health.

  • Junk Science (Score:2, Insightful)

    by molafson ( 716807 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:45PM (#7372748)
    Atkins diet is basically just a low calorie diet in disguise (as you eliminate carbs, you eliminate a major source of calories).

    Also, as in ANY diet, under Atkins you are forced to pay close attention to your food consumption. This is a good, healthy thing in itself (to be aware of your food consumption). That awareness alone, regardless of the Atkins method specifically, may promote weight loss.

    BTW, I suspect all Atkins' insulin, ketosis, etc. theory is all junk science.
  • by acordes ( 69618 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:45PM (#7372751)
    Props to all those who have tried Atkins and lost weight. However, I can't understand how a diet that tells you not to eat pears, apples, etc. can be healthy for you. It will be interesting to see 10 years down the road what the long term effects of Atkins are.
  • Gross (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Pave Low ( 566880 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:46PM (#7372766) Journal
    I've seen the people on Atkins, and just watching them eat makes me puke. I love bacon, steak, and fatty stuff as much as the next guy, but who likes downing all that stuff everyday without carbs, and other stuff.

    It's usually morbidly obese people who are doing this, and while I don't doubt it works, those people are still far from healthy. They still carry a few extra pounds, don't exercise, and they reek.

    It's funny how humans have lived on a staple of grains, rice, potatoes for thousands of years, and billions around the world continue to do so, and now it's no good for you? No thanks, I'll continue to eat whatever I want in moderation, and exercise frequently. It's a lot easier and healthier than these fad diets.

  • by ebusinessmedia1 ( 561777 ) * on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:49PM (#7372801)
    You can't fool Mother Nature

    Human beings did not evolve to subsist on protein. We evolved as *active* animals who browsed and hunted for food.

    The current social environment mitigates against health. There is too much food available, too much stress, not enough 'meaningful personal connection' (loss of the tribe?), too little movement [exercise], etc.

    It's understandable that a population that is grossly unhealthy seeks tweaked solutions to health.

    Atkins, like many other tweaks, will sooner or later be found to cause health problems, and drop from favor.

    What's unfortunate - and ironic - about all these body tweaks, is that there is a grain (pun intended) of truth in most of them. It's probably a good thing that people move away from refined carbohydrates, add reasonable amounts of healthy fat to the diet, consume a greater portion of protein relative to carbs than has been the case for the last several decades, etc.

    Unfortunately, the 'overclocking' crowd hoes whole hog (pun intended, again) on this stuff - the water diet, the grapefruit diet, the protein diet, etc. A price will be paid.

    The Atkins Diet not what Mother Nature intended, and she always has her way in the end.

    What I would like to see is a more in depth analysis - by individual - of how different bodies matabolize different foods, or combinations of foods. That day is coming. When we're they're (it's a way off), we'll have a better idea about what 'works' for us as individuals, and be able to intelligently act on that.

    One last thing: populations and food availability co-evolve. One of the reasons why the French and Italians do so well with a lot of wine is because they're been drinking it for hundreds of generations. Those who coudn't take the Italian, French, Chinese, or whatever diet, died off, and tended not to reproduce. Those who were left are the ones who were able to handle it, and thrive on it (for the most part).

    There have been interesting studies that return Southwest American Indians to their original diets, lost generations ago. What's startling about these studies is that many individuals who were diabetic, or had other health problems, experienced dramatic returns to health, or major improvement as a result of diet.

    We might say the same for the typical American diet, with it's high sugar, refined carbohydrate and other oddities. If we did nothing at all, over generations (many of them) an 'American' genotype would evolve that was able to deal with the current toxins in the American diet (even pesticides), and thrive on them.

    Sure, Atkins will work very well for some small number of people over a long period of time. However, many more people will most likely pay a price in compromised health (or general frustration)over the long term with Atkins diet, or any other diet that doesn't work the way MOther Nature intended.

  • Alternatively (Score:5, Insightful)

    by greygent ( 523713 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:51PM (#7372817) Homepage
    Alternatively, you can implement a life plan where you exercise and eat right (Atkins diet != right).

    The key is to collect recipes for quick meals that are comprised of as few processed foods as possible. A George Foreman grill is a must. I suggest subscribing to the few men's fitness magazines that are out there, as they have both recipes and exercises for people in a hurry. The magazines are tailored for busy people. Buy the $16.95 Body For Life book as it is full of exercise and food tips.

    Dumb bells and a weight bench are cheap, alternatively, you could just go for 30 minute walks. Avoid driving, when possible. Shitcan your pansy-assed Segway. Invest in a good bicycle.

    Fad diets, like the Atkins diet, are just stupid shortcuts that work, somewhat, but don't think it's a healthy lifestyle. The Atkins diet is for lazy people who don't exercise much. You'll certainly get thinner, but not any healthier. And once you go off the diet, you'll just balloon up again. Whereas with exercise and more muscle, your body will burn more calories (and fat).
  • by GISGEOLOGYGEEK ( 708023 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:52PM (#7372832)
    wow, look at all the suckers i reeled in ...

    I just said Atkins is dead, I never claimed he died because of his screwy diet. Although I like the response that claims he was light-headed from the diet when he fell.

    Get some common sense here people!

    The ONLY way to loose weight is to burn more calories than you consume. There is simply no other way.

    Atkins is one way of accomplishing this, One where many have had success, and many have made themselves sick.

    BUT, like users of the Q-Ray ionized bracelet, a dumbass sucker is born every minute and you'll only hear the 'successful' point of view - no one wants to admit they were dumb enough to get screwed.
  • by gotw ( 239699 ) <ninjacyclist&gmail,com> on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:53PM (#7372834) Homepage
    I'm a cycle messenger by trade. I have a very high carb, high excercise diet routine. The atkins diet does seem to work from what I hear from people ... work inasmuch as they lose weight. But is it healthy? People I know who have done atkinds have been close to delerium at points while following the diet. I know that some would consider my lucky to be doing the amount of excercise where I don't have to worry about it, but the brain needs some carbohydrate for concentration and such. A more apt solution would be a better balance between work and life for the office workers, if people have time to prepare and enjoy good food then they will eat better and have less problems with it. So many people just work work work and eat crap to fuel it and develop a problem with it while they aren't even looking.
  • Sigh (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02, 2003 @04:59PM (#7372882)
    It's not a diet where you just quit when you've lost weight. It's a change in your way of eating, and you can have still have a very proper diet on it. Once you've reached your goals, you can introduce some carbs back in (healthy ones, like fruits) to keep you at your ideal weight. You don't just quit and start eating pasta for breakfast, lunch and dinner. And, many people don't exercise because they're overweight, so losing weight often gets people interested in being more physically active.

    Our "modern diet" is killing us, and since the government has been preaching "low fat" the past few decades, things have only gotten worse. People are eating more because carbs cause insulin surges which increase appetite.
  • by Powercntrl ( 458442 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:07PM (#7372939) Homepage
    Remember when "Low Fat" products were all the rage? The only problem with "low fat" is low fat usually doesn't mean low calories... Take Snackwell cookies for example, low fat doesn't mean shit if you're planning on eating the entire box in one sitting. Low carb is just another trend that is totally meaningless if you think it keeps you from counting calories.

    The only reason diets like Atkins work at all is simple: just about everything has carbohydrates in it! There's so few things you can eat if you strictly adhere to the diet that you inevitably end up eating LESS CALORIES.

    Howstuffworks has an excellent article [howstuffworks.com] on dieting and the gist of it is, you guessed it - limiting your calories consumed.

    If you are willing to tolerate counting calories and figure out exactly what you need to maintain your desired weight, you can pretty much eat whatever you want. 100 calories of carbs = 100 calories of fat. If you're the type of person that needs a "banned foods"-type list to really feel like you're on a diet, Atkins probably is for you. If you're the type that can push away from the table - you probably don't need to do anything more than watch your calories.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:07PM (#7372942)
    "well, stop being a faggot then. see a shrink. "

    Being gay is not something to see a doctor about. Being offended by somebody being gay is something to see a doctor about.
  • by jrwillis ( 306262 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:33PM (#7373105) Homepage
    Guinness
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:49PM (#7373202)
    Free, yes. Easy? No way. I have tried excercising everyday for about 1/2 hour, and only lost about 5 pounds. That payoff is like earning less than min wage. Plus, jogging can be boring as hell, and more interesting activities like basketball leave you sore and injured often. I still excecize, but not every day.
    It is not easy, but it is simple. Figure out how many calories you burn [stevenscreek.com] each day, adjust your diet to consistently consume 500 less every day. You will lose a pound a week for however long you are interested (3500 calories = 1 pound). It worked for me, and everyone else with a backbone.
    As far as eating less, your body knows very well that your intake is less than it wants, and not only cranks up the cravings to high heaven, but also lowers your metabalism to compensate, negating the effects. Being hungry all the time is miserable. It is comparable to having a slowly tighting vice on your arm. Constant discomfort.
    Don't be such a fucking baby. Run a consistent daily caloric deficit and your stomach will adjust within a few weeks.
    And, diet food tastes like cardboard. I would rather throw away the contents and eat the damned box! It tastes better.
    Pick up an Indian cookbook.
    Science/tech created the problem, let it also fix it without this miserable 24/hr discipline shit.
    What a bunch of nonsense. You are addicted to food; you need to break your addiction. Put down the Twinkies and hook up with a support group like Weight Watchers.
  • by StandardDeviant ( 122674 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:51PM (#7373213) Homepage Journal
    How about reading up on what "ketosis" does to your body sometime? (This being the thing all the hackers^WAtkins-idiots rabbit on about in the linked Salon article.)

    I've heard it's pretty bad.

    Oh wait, I've gone through having my kidneys die (spent pretty much all of 1998 on dialysis and eventually got a kidney transplant, 9 Dec 1998). I can tell you first hand that ketosis is nothing you want to fuck around with.

    Word to the wise, kiddies, ketosis is not a state you want to be in. It's not a fun place to be. Want to lose weight? Fine, eat something approximating a healthy (i.e. balanced) diet and hit the gym or go jogging/swimming/bike-riding an hour a day. Anything in the diet/excercise/nutrition realm that sounds too good to be true ("you mean i can eat cheeseburgers breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and lose weight?!?!?! OMGWTFLOL!!!!"), well, IS. Get used to it, TANSTAAFL.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:52PM (#7373227)
    "Suck that dick in your mouth you PC whore."

    Sorry, not gay. Just somebody who isn't afraid of them.
  • by jd_esguerra ( 582336 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:53PM (#7373231)
    the Atkins diet makes the body digest itself because of carbohydrate depravation

    Isn't that kind of the point? I'm skeptical of all diets, mostly because I don't think there is a single diet that is optimal for every single person. From what I've observed, Atkins seems to pretty effective for some people. Healthy or not, it has enabled some to drop a big enough chunk of weight that they are now more comfortable going to the gym, and more likely to be protective of their health/appearance. Being in shape is its own reward, and is good motivation for healthy living.

  • by AJWM ( 19027 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @05:55PM (#7373246) Homepage
    But if you're so weak-willed that you'd rather damage your body than make an effort

    Ah, here we go, the "moral superiority" of the metabolically skinny.

    Some people -- for whatever reason -- just don't like to eat as much as some others. For them, maintaining their weight isn't really a matter of "strong will", any more than it's a matter of strong will for me not to be an alcoholic. Did the partying and getting drunk in college, decided the negatives outweighed the positives, and just don't do that any more (not that I'm a teetotaler by any means). Does that mean that an alcoholic is just "weak willed"? Probably not, just means they've got a metabolic (or psychological) difference such that the urge to drink is a lot stronger in them than it is in me.

    The trick, then, is (in either case), determining what combination of diet and lifestyle reduces those urges (whether to eat or drink) in the first place. Sure, sticking with that requires a certain amount of willpower. But you're making a mistake in assuming that this is something that would "damage your body". Popping diet pills or starving yourself will damage your body, but there's no indication that the Atkins (properly followed) would.
  • by rsidd ( 6328 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @06:01PM (#7373282)
    If you're in dialysis someday with kidney failure, you'll realize that your health is far more important than social perception.

    Not only that, but there are healthy ways to lose weight. Eat a balanced diet, with normal-sized portions (the Europeans do it right, as do lots of other communities that have eaten traditional forms of food for centuries), and take plenty of exercise (just walking half an hour a day should do a lot of good). It's a win-win situation: not only do you lose weight but you become healthier, and you improve your self-esteem and social perception. What a deal. (And yes, I practise what I preach.)

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02, 2003 @06:07PM (#7373320)
    ...take up a form of exercise that involves both physical and mental exertion, such as a martial art. I took up Muay Thai. Muay Thai training gets you physically fit very fast, builds strength, cardio-vascular fitness, speed and stamina. Learning technique requires a lot of intellectual and physical effort. And sparring is impossible to find boring!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 02, 2003 @06:09PM (#7373333)
    We all know that motto for systems development and administration, yet here some of you go looking for the same idiotic "gimme results without effort or cost" nonsense for health.

    There is no easy solution. Never has been, never will be. If you want to be healthy and in shape: Eat less, exercise more.

    Even 11 minutes a day (less time than some folks spend maintaining their PC) is all it takes using 5BX for exercise, and we all know (or should know) the proper foods which make up a good diet.

    If you fill your gut with snacks and soft drinks and don't expect any penalties, you're about as clueless as the folks who load up every Gator, Bonzi Buddy and other such crap on their PC and still expect it to run speedy and crash-free (and then complain to the sysadmin when it doesn't).

    There is no-reboot for a fatal crash of your own personal physical system. One chance is all you get and quick fixes are just as unreliable and pie-in-the-sky out here in the real world as they are in software.

    So, what'll it be: The equivalent of 10 smart kids thrown at computers at random in the hopes that a decent application will result, or proper planning and analysis to build the body you want?
  • by barfy ( 256323 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @06:17PM (#7373390)
    Ok, the simple truth is this...

    As adults... (The growth mechanism of children is quite different then the maintenance mechanisms of adults...)

    We are genetically inclined to eat carbs. Our whole body from taste buds, to energy use, and insulin cycles are based upon the carbohydrate energy cycle.

    Two problems... 100's of years of developing tasty food (IE food that has been shown to have maximum effect on our carbohydrate systems), and secondly, unparalled access to limitless quantities of such food.

    And a third problem, we are hormonally beholding to the carbohydrate cycle. And hormones win nearly everytime over will-power. (Anyone who disbelieves this, is either genetically "lucky" or is woefully ignorant of modern psychiatry and the biomechanical nature of the brain and how it affects behavior).

    This results in overeating of carbs (we are just doing what feels normal...) This results in insulin resistence (the body going... I am sorry sir, but I cannot possibly store any more energy in these cells), followed by type 2 diabetes (the blood is a lovely red syrup), followed by nerve damage, loss of limbs, blindness and death....

    All of this because, well historically (ignoring the past 50 years or so), it was genetically superior to be carb-centric. Those that are carb-centric lived longer, were revered, and had more power.

    Atkins works because it lowers blood sugar due to lack of carbohydrates in the diet. This essentially stops type 2 diabetes.

    If calories are below need then energy is released by cells. (This will increase insulin sensitivity as cells now have space to store excess sugar)... (Though the calorie equation is best a guess. Basing how much water temprature rises is equivelant to biomechanical energy release is at best a sketchy and not fully understood relationship).

    Ultimately people are MUCH healthier not being in type 2 diabetic and insulin resistent state. Than being *in* that state.

    However, lack of blood sugar has negative affect on brain activity, and excess protien in the blood has been shown to increase kidney stone production, and may be related to renal failure....

    So, once moved to the much healthier non-diabetic bloodstream, and non-insulin resistent cell-state, a balanced macro-nutrient diet, is probably best (as research done on sports teams, and diabetic patients)...

    BUT.... Oh and this is a big BUT!!! We are still hormonally driven beings.... And hormones will drive you back to Carbo-Heaven... Cuz that is what we are genetically incline to eat. And this will make this an ongoing mental and physical exercise to exorcise the hormonal demons..
  • by Captain Beefheart ( 628365 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @06:26PM (#7373455)
    ...Atkins discussions for some reason seem to draw out more urban legend, second-hand, and bad information than any hot topic I've ever come across, including politics and religion. There are many reasons for this:

    1. People who don't read the book and try eating meat and cheese to lose weight. They suffer and end up badmouthing the diet.

    2. People who watch the above suffer and assume the diet is bad...and go around badmouthing it.

    3. People who've "heard of" vaguely ominous scientific studies but can't provide concrete rebuttals.

    4. People who say Atkins is BS because all you need to do is exercise and "eat right." Well, according to Atkins, his diet *is* "eating right."

    Low-fat diet+exercise will simply not work for a significant percentage of the population. Some people will simply not lose weight with the traditional exercise and diet route. The human body is a complex and often uncooperative machine.

    In conclusion, read the material. No, really. Actually read the book. Just one chapter, even. Don't skim. At least focus on one chapter. I garantee you wouldn't be so hard on the diet if you just did a little homework.

  • by SB5 ( 165464 ) <freebirdpat@hMEN ... com minus author> on Sunday November 02, 2003 @06:28PM (#7373473)
    Our current selection of food is also better for us. It is like getting a 16 inch battleship shell when your body has evolved to survive on BB-gun pellets. Our current selection of food is of higher quality and just generally richer compared to what we evolved to survive on. Even if you are a Creationist, there is no way you can even try and compare our food now to food from 100-5000 years ago.
  • by gessel ( 310103 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @07:23PM (#7373906) Homepage
    OK kids, all crap aside, lets go back to basics:

    Any energy that goes into your mouth goes one of 3 places:

    1) You burn it. Literally - and burning food generates heat. Each gram of fat contains 9 Calories, which is equivalent to jogging for one minute. That's 9000 calories (little c) which will heat your average 200lb sysadmin 0.2 degrees F. There are 27 grams in an ounce - that's a half hour run per ounce of fat. Think about how sweaty that would make you. This is an important thermodynamic consideration we'll get back to.

    2) You store it. One gram of fat in becomes one gram of fat on your ass. One gram of carbohydrate or protein in becomes 1/2 gram of fat on your ass. There's no magic here; joules don't vanish.

    3) You excrete it. This is what chiral analogs of various energy sources do, such as Olestra. If this was happening, you would know it; the term is anal leakage. Sugars you cannot digest, like the sugars in beans, create equally socially endearing outputs.

    Now the article claims that Atkins overclocks the body. Crap. If it did you'd get hot. Run a motor fast, it gets hot. Run your body fast, it gets hot. Take amphetamines, you start to twitch and sweat. Thermodynamics. You can't beat it. Atkins can't beat it. Atkins does not make you hot. If you burned an extra pound of fat you'd heat your body to boiling. It does not accelerate your metabolism, it does not perform any insulin magic. The whole thing is the stunningly ignorant optimism of the hopefully overweight.

    But people do lose weight on it - or so it seems (statistically this isn't really borne out by actual controlled studies, but hey, who needs science when we can make choices based on anecdotes). Why? Because in a normal diet 60-70% of your calories come from carbohydrates and you cut them you and you're on a calories restricted diet. Bingo. Eat nothing at all and keep your activity level up and you'll lose about 1/2 pound each day (8.2oz of fat = 2000 calories). Eat more calories than nothing and prorate that weight lose. Joules are joules, they body isn't happy about wasting them, and if it does, bacteria won't and your cube neighbors won't be happy about that.

    So much for the insulin magic and ketosis crap, but there's this wacky claim of "satiety " the claim that fat and protein is a high satiety food and that if you eat it, you'll eat less total. Could be. Maybe for some people, not for others. If it works for you, go for it, just don't make magic claims or act like the self-righteous health nuts who claim to Received The Counterintuitive Truth.

    As for the health of it all, if you stop eating processed sugars, like every nutritionist including Atkins has been saying for 50 years, you'll generally lose weight, probably a lot of it, and you will be healthier. My mom used to call them "empty calories," but that's too kind. Sugars are bad, and Atkins is right about refined sugar (complex carbohydrates absorb more slowly, "glycemic index" crap aside) - you do tend to crash after (all nutritionists know this). Crash means metabolism temporarily slows. Slow metabolism means less calories burned. Not a lot less - watching TV burns 2.4 calories per minute, walking 2mph burns 2.8 - but a bit less, which means a small difference, a few grams of fat a day maybe. The big difference is eating less sugar - 4.5 Cal per M&M adds up fast.

    As for the health of it, if you eat "too much" protein your piss will start to smell weird. If that happens back off. Otherwise it's not likely to kill you. Don't chow down on high saturated fats, the "Atkins helps heart disease" stuff is crap. If you lose weight your cholesterol level will drop, but that doesn't contradict about 50 years of very well documented data showing a direct correlations between saturated fat and heart disease, which strikes thin, otherwise healthy people too.

    Skipping fruit is dumb, but it won't kill you if you're eating your veggies. All the vitamins and minerals are in vegetab
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @07:32PM (#7373955)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Muvlo Redond ( 716505 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @07:37PM (#7373985) Journal
    Perhaps it is time for "a good diet" to mean "foods that are helpful for the body", not "weight loss".
  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @07:46PM (#7374074)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by nomadicGeek ( 453231 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @08:19PM (#7374344)
    Let's just start by saying that I don't believe in the Atkins diet. While you may lose weight while you are on it, I think that you are doing damage to your body for short term gain (not weight gain). There is plenty of evidence out there to support that claim. Many of the other posts probably cover it better than I could. I would like to live a long and healthy life and I think that you have to be careful how you do things when you are younger because there will eventually be a price paid for abusing your body.

    I guess I have struggled with my weight as much as the next geek. I remember seeing my college graduation pictures and being appalled by how bad I looked. My face was pale, I had a little double chin action starting, and I had milk titties with a paunch that hung over my belt. My posture was bad as well. In short, I looked like shit and I felt like shit. Any kind of physical exertion like climbing up a few flights of stairs made me feel ill.

    I've found the best approach is to eat a balanced diet consisting of protein, carbs (tending toward goods with a low glycemic index and trying to stay away from processed sugars), unsaturated fat, and fiber combined with exercise. I split my exercise between weights and cardio.

    When I first started to work out, I hated it. I was always sore for a couple of days after weights and the cardio always made me want to puke. I felt awkward being in the gym because I didn't know what I was doing but after a couple of months I really started to enjoy it. My body got used to exercising and I was reading some books and magazines to figure out what to do. Once you get into it there are so many rewards.

    Weight lifting is more difficult than it looks. How you do it determines the gains that you make and how likely you are to hurt yourself. Technique is the key and it takes a while to learn. I'm to the point now where I set goals for things like squats, dead lifts, and bench press. I work out the plan and then work hard to get there. It's like learning a new scripting language or maybe picking up Linux for the first time. When you first start you don't know what the hell you are doing. After a while you become a pro. Now I'm not a big muscle head, my body is just better proportioned. My shoulders are wider than my love handles, my chest is wider, and I have better posture. I just look better overall. I've also noticed that a lot of nagging aches and pains have gone away. My lower back feels good. I also have an injured shoulder that is going much better now that I have built up a little muscle around it.

    I started running for cardio. My goal was to finish a half marathon. It was something to focus on and judge my progress against. I still do a half marathon every year but I decided that running is not my thing. I've taken up cycling and love it. Just like weights, I set goals to keep things interesting. I started out by signing up for an 860 mile trek from Miami to Tallahassee, FL. I worked out a plan of the number of miles a week that I wanted to ride and did two 100 mile rides the two weekends before the ride. I'm planning a cross country ride in 2007 (why set small goals). I enjoy the cycling on a lot of levels. I get to see a lot of places that I normally wouldn't see. I've met a lot of really cool people. It also clears my mind. I can't tell you how many times I have been frustrated with a technical problem, taken an hour off to cycle, and then come back and knocked it out. I also really enjoy the physical challenge and pushing myself to do things that I wouldn't have imagined that I could do a few years ago.

    I probably sound a little like a zealot here but I can't imagine going back to living the way I used to. I'm happier, healthier, and more energetic.

    I think that if you are now where I used to be years back, I would seriously consider a sensible balanced diet and find some physical activities that you enjoy. If you do it right, it can be very physically, intellectually, and spiritual
  • I couldn't agree more. I'm a Freshman college student, and when I came to college, I realized I was overweight (6'2" 238lbs), and the idea of the Freshman 15 wasn't too appeasing. So, I decided to change that. Now, every morning I wake up at 530, go to the gym, and run for 30 minutes (at 6mph, thats 3 miles or about 530 calories) and thats before I've eaten breakfast. Then, throughout the day, I watch my caloric intake (I keep it under 2000), and then at night, I work out again. At night I'll do another 3 miles, and usually 30 minutes on the stairstepper, which can get 700 calories. Thats 1760 calories of working out. It is easy to loose a pound a day. In fact, in the 2 months I've been at college, I've lost 32lbs.

    The key is motivation and you have to push yourself. It is not easy (especially for those of you who don't like waking up early). I have no pity for fat or obese people, even if they do have a disease that forces them to overeat or whatever that crap is. So stick with it, and loose the weight. No fancy diets (whatever this new south beach diet is, I have no idea), just low calories and exercise. Do it.

    -Vic
  • by MasTRE ( 588396 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @09:14PM (#7374657)
    "..because utilizing low-carb methods to modify the metabolism is analogous to hacking and overclocking the body."

    More like being retarded. Like the guy who's fine with his box crashing 2-3 times a day as long as he _knows_ it's oc'ed to the max. Your body will crash too - there is no magic. The difference is that Atkins, when he was alive, marketed for profit his unsafe body overclocking methods that could seriously fuck you up for life, whereas frying a Barton will only hurt your pocket the average monthly salary of a chinese factory worker making the motherboard you fried it on.
  • by LookSharp ( 3864 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @09:26PM (#7374710)
    Granted that the plural of anecdote is NOT data (as snopes.com loves to tell you), I wanted to give the results of four web/Unix geeks where I work. This is going to sound like an infomercial, but all I can do is give you what I've got, and let you decide if I'm honest or not. Hopefully my low UID and post history will help convince you that I'm sincere.

    My buddy, late 30s, lost 35 lbs his first six weeks. One colleague lost 65lbs in 6 months (early 40s), and a guy in his late 20s lost 70lbs in 6 months. So I joined up-- I have been on for eight weeks (I'm 28), and have lost 38lbs (from 262 to 224) so far, following Atkins' New Diet Revolution. That includes going from a 44 inch waist to 38. In two months, without excercise (yet.)

    Basically, the Atkins Diet is like a cult of people who cut almost all of the sugars and starches out of their diet. Permanently, if done correctly. I also cut caffeine out (what a hellish 36 hours withdrawal/hangover that was!)-- not required by "The Diet" but I found it helpful. I call it a cult because you have to continually remind yourself and/or your Atkins Buddies that they're doing well, and steer them clear of carby foods. This often means randomly annoying strangers by picking up food containers and looking at them increduously when you look at the labels. For instance, a small bottle of Cranberry juice has 49 carb grams in it; enough for 2.5 days worth on Atkins' Induction phase.

    Here are my pros/cons list:

    -Pro: I find that I fall asleep/wake up better, and feel "regulated" throughout the day. I do not have post-lunch lag, or groggy mornings where I "need" coffee/Code Red.

    -Con: You need to be creative with your food selection and menu planning. You can eat plenty of junk food, as long as you are getting sugar-free candy and soda, and eat stuff like Beef Jerky and Pork Rinds for snacks. You can and should eat the green vegetables specified, in the amounts specified in the book.

    -Pro: You are losing weight, especially in the early weeks, enough to look in the mirror and tell the difference. Especially those of us who are fat around the face.

    -Con: You need to supplement your diet with vitamins and PLENTY of water. The Diet dehydrates you. I personally find myself drinking somewhere in the neighborhood of a gallon of plain water every day, because I literally feel that thirsty. You also need to make sure you are getting enough fiber, or you will get constipated. The good news is that many sugar-free candies are loaded with non-digestable plant fibers which will take care of that... and much worse if you overdo it!

    -Pro: Your total cholesterol goes down. "Good cholesterol" goes up. This is only if you are doing the diet right. The FUDders like to spew that "there's no way so much meat and cheese can be healthy for you." Bullshit. If you're doing it right, your body is metabolizing what you eat, and you are pissing away (literally) your weight through lipolysis-- the breaking down of your stored fat cells. You don't have to skip bacon and eggs, but you also can't eat greasy, saturated-fatty foods for every component of every meal.

    -Con: You eventually start to plateau on your weight loss. At this point, if you're not already doing this, it's time to start excercising regularly to kick-start your CV system and calorie burn.

    The final con is that about 2/3rd of the population is going to accuse you of eating "unnaturally" or foods that are "unhealthy." Franky, I think they are full of shit. Of the dozen or so people I know that have read the book and implemented it to spec, EVERY ONE has lost between 15 and 30 lbs in the first month. Not a one has had negative health effects with the possible exception of some constipation (not enough fiber/water). The trick is staying on the diet, monitoring your blood sugars and cholesterol level with your doctor, and taking the mindset that The Diet is a whole change in lifestyle, not just a quikc solution to kick 20lbs.
  • Worked for me (Score:3, Insightful)

    by plazman30 ( 531348 ) on Sunday November 02, 2003 @11:29PM (#7375260) Homepage
    I did Atkisn for over a year and lost about 100 pounds on it. The whole time I was monitored by my doctor and my blood chemistry improved DRAMATICALLY. If you've never been on Atkins and have NEVER EVEN read the book, then I would say, SHUT THE HELL UP, before you go and make comments about this diet.

    Sure you eat more fat and protein than the average guy, but NOWHERE does Atkins tell you to go and deep fry everything you eat, or cut all veggies out of your diet. And he STRESSES beyond anything else to take vitamin supplements because he says it is an UNBALANCED DIET and you have to get yourself IN BALANCE once you get to your goal weight. That's where you start the maintenance phase.

    The hardest part of the diet for any geek would be the complete lack of caffeine on the diet.
  • by sudog ( 101964 ) on Monday November 03, 2003 @03:14AM (#7376000) Homepage
    Yay, more faulty logic. Right, let's live as cavemen--because soap and hygiene actually clears away all the good bacteria that we need to live healthy cavemen diets.

    (We'll just ignore the vastly improved lifespans due to modern hygiene and disease control.. we were never meant to have soap in an ancestral environment, after all.)

    Let's live as cavemen did, and starve ourselves of certain nutrients for long periods of time, regardless of how bad that's been shown to be for us, and how well primitive agriculture-based societies do (ie: food stores readily available) versus primitive hunter-gatherer societies.

    Those masses of starving people are living the CAVEMAN diet! We should be living like they do!

    Because, you know, a biochemist is the next best thing to a medical doctor, right? Right? He *knows* what's good for a body after those few years of biochem studies..! His biochem degree is EXACTLY what qualifies him to give out medical advice to anonymous people he's never met before!

    Fucking 'tard.
  • YMMV (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 03, 2003 @07:41AM (#7376609)
    I personally lost about 35 pounds on a pseudo-Atkins diet.

    My opinion is that any diet will do: the bottom line is that the calorie intake should be lower than the amount you use. But traditional low-fat diets leave you feeling like having an empty stomach 24/7. Atkins diet leaves a more satiated feeling for a longer time.
  • Holy denial Batman (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gosand ( 234100 ) on Monday November 03, 2003 @10:13AM (#7377174)
    Science/tech created the problem, let it also fix it without this miserable 24/hr discipline shit.

    Wow, dude, are you in denial. Please explain how science/tech caused you to sit on your ass for hours on end and eat fast food 4 meals a day. Until you realize that *YOU* are the problem, all your diet efforts will be in vain. Convenience food is convenient, not mandatory. Did you get insanely fat overnight? No, it probably took you years and years of abusing your body to get that way. So stop looking for the easy way out and change your life. Learn how to fix the *problem* and not just patch the symptoms.

So you think that money is the root of all evil. Have you ever asked what is the root of money? -- Ayn Rand

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