NASA Flies First Laser-powered Aircraft 283
unassimilatible writes "NASA has successfully tested a small-scale aircraft that flies solely by means of propulsive power delivered by an invisible, ground-based laser. How far away can in-flight IP/LASER broadband be?"
Laser (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Laser & Clouds? (Score:2)
Does the plane crash?
Re:Laser & Clouds? (Score:2)
We did this in Canada 15 years ago... (Score:5, Informative)
It used microwaves [friendsofcrc.ca] instead of "invisible lasers" (IR? i havent RTFA yet) but same end result, no?
Re:We did this in Canada 15 years ago... (Score:3)
Thanks for clearing that up; I was worried what would happen if they tried flying these things through a cloud bank. (Isn't a microwave laser more succinctly known as a maser?)
Re:We did this in Canada 15 years ago... (Score:2)
Yes [216.239.59.104].
Daniel
Some old articles... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:We did this in the US almost 50 years ago... (Score:2)
Re:We did this in Canada 15 years ago... (Score:2)
Life Imitating Art? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:5, Informative)
IANAP (I am not a physicist), but isn't using light pressure in a vacuum to drive a light sail entirely different from an aircraft with "specially designed photovoltaic cells carried onboard to power the plane's propeller"?
It's like (poor analogy alert) saying that a gasoline powered car and a squeeze-jet that squirts out liquid gasoline to propel itself through the water are using "the same" propulsive technology.
BTW, light sails were proposed by real physicists long before Niven and Pournelle wrote the excellent Mote in God's Eye.
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:2)
Basically the craft had a tank filled with light that propelled the vehicle around.
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:2)
Not "hallmark", "landmark".
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:2)
Or in the case of Neal Stephenson's new 900+ hardback Quicksilver, "doorstop" or "booster seat".
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:2)
In latter books, it mentioned using lasers to propel cargo/cargo-ships around.
And the bonus is, of course, that when we are attacked by a carnivorous intelligent giant cat-species, we can use the lasers to fight back...
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:2)
Definitely. We'll also need big balls of string to distract them once they get bored chasing the laser beam spots around.
Talking about giant cats reminds me of one of my favorite aphorisms about cats and dogs: If your dog was your size, he'd be your best friend but if your cat was your size, he'd try to eat you.
Re:Life Imitating Art? (Score:2)
When the Kzin first encountered humans, the Kzinti telepath assured his commander (Chuft-Captain?) that the humans had no weapons, because that was what he read in the humans' minds. He also opined that human might be tasty (even though given that the telepath wasn't a warrior, and so was despised, he'd never taste any).
So the Kzin arrogantly attacked head on with li
Laser powered.. (Score:2)
Re:Laser powered.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Laser driven Space Sails (ok not solar in this case, but light-driven, although they would prob use solar as well) use the momentum of the photons to push the craft forward - but you still need a damn powerful laser to do it effectively..
Laser driven space sails are one of the few feasable technologies we really have that could be used for sending probes interstellar distances in a viable time-scale.
The 2 concepts have the same sort of p
Re:Laser powered.. (Score:2)
It won't have lasers at the place it's going to if it's unexplored, so ...
My (novice) idea is to have a system of mirrors. The lasers can still point directly at the craft, but the mirrors will be like a cone deployed at the butt of the craft when it wants to start decelerating. There'd be another ring, like a cone with the top cut off, farther away from the craft, so the laser will bounce off the butt, hit the ring and bounce t
Re:Laser powered.. (Score:2)
Your best bet is to turn around and use the light from the destination star to decelerate - if the destination is a binary, maybe some complex orbit would allow you to loop both stars until a slow speed is achieved.
Otherwise it will be a very fast flyby..
Re:Laser powered.. (Score:2)
Thats ok, and the answer is yes - the laser will feel a reaction. Photons of light actually have weight. From memory, about 2 pounds of sunlight falls on Earth each day. Not much weight, but a heck of a lot of energy.
So in space, where there is no friction, a Solar sail [google.com] can accelerate indefinately, but only in the direction of the prevailing photon wind- to do it all with sun-power would require huge sails, or you could use a smaller sail and supplement it with drive from super-accurate laser power, mayb
Re:Laser powered.. (Score:2)
Space Elevator (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Space Elevator (Score:2)
hope someone metamoderates that one wisely
Why can't they do this with power? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:2)
Got any spare gigawatt lasers lying around that you're not using to etch your name into the moon's surface? That's one hell of a power requirement!
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:2)
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:3, Insightful)
Or cities could just use that big natural free radiation source called the Sun.
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:3, Informative)
Also, solar panels are only about 5-15% efficient. That's because they only absorb certain frequencies of light, and the other frequencies that the Sun presents is wasted.
However, if you point a laser at one, they're much, much more efficient (>50%). That's because you can choose the laser to match the solar panel.
But the big problem with laser power beaming is stuff like clouds, and fog...
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:2)
But the big problem with laser power beaming is stuff like clouds, and fog...
, people...
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:2)
, people...
Nah, people are no problem. Cuts through them like a hot knife through butter. No problem at all. :-)
Actually you wouldn't want to be within a mile or two of a 100MW laser. It blinds just from diffusively scattered light at about that range- further than that if you use magnifying optics like binoculars.
From where?? (Score:2)
1. It is very inefficient.
2. There is nowhere to beam it from. You need line of sight.
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:2)
Isn't that per engine? Now if I could only figure out how to fit one of these on top of my car... Ah, finally something to drown out those 1300-watt trash mobiles.
Re:Why can't they do this with power? (Score:2)
Use the right frequency of laser or microwave, and clouds needn't be much of a problem. Come to think of it, if the thing (or part of it) were tunable, it could probably be used to make clouds d
Weather control? (Score:2)
If it can make clouds disappear, I imagine it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to have it (1) make clouds appear, and (2) make air currents hotter/colder, and thus have a shot at making tornadoes and hurricanes disappear... no doubt it's a huge amount of powe
Hmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I know, what a nutty idea... (Score:2)
Ok, NASA just one question... how... (Score:2)
I live in England :-)
Re:Ok, NASA just one question... how... (Score:2)
Any technology distinguishable from magic is not suffic
Re:Ok, NASA just one question... how... (Score:2)
Re:Ok, NASA just one question... how... (Score:2)
Very far off, I hope. (Score:5, Funny)
Let's hope it's very, very far off. A laser beam pointing to/from a commercial aircraft is essentially a giant pointer, constantly updated, announcing the precise position of the plane. It should not be difficult at all to build a guidance system that follows the laser and delivers a payload to the plane just as a line climber [intothewind.com] follows a kite string to a kite. Said payload is not likely to be an emergency delivery of peanuts and soda.
It's Called Radar (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmmm, a system capable of tracking the precise position of an aircraft? You mean like RADAR?
Blockwars [blockwars.com]: free, and multiplayer
Re:Very far off, I hope. (Score:2)
In Soviet Russia, ground smart-bombs plane!
Re:Very far off, I hope. (Score:2)
--trb
What a wast of time and money (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What a waste of time and money (Score:2)
Whether it's a waste is a different matter, mind
Simon
Re:What a wast of time and money (Score:2)
Yes, but difference is that the plane's fuel does not ever change. Most of a rocket's fuel is fuel to carry the weight of the fuel, this kind of vehicle does not have that limitation.
Re:What a wast of time and money (Score:2)
So how about instead of placing the photaic cells on the bottom of the wing and powering it by a laser we put them on TOP of the wing and power it by the sun?
Cool! (Score:5, Funny)
"Homeless celebrate as pre-cooked pigeons fall from sky near airport"
Guided Missiles (Score:3, Funny)
Rus
Re:Guided Missiles (Score:2)
<military-pedantic>
I'm not sure which "most missiles" you're referring to. If you're speaking in-context and on-topic, you're talking about surface-to-air antiaircraft missiles, and I'm not aware of any laser-guided ones in any world inventory. Most missiles in this class are guided by infrared detection or radar guidance (external, from a radar emitter on the ground, or internal, from an on-board radar set.)
</mili
Re:Guided Missiles (Score:2)
All in all, laser makes a pretty lousy guide for an air intercept missile.
Just one observation, from someone who works in the area. The aperture of your radar beam is typically very large compared to a laser, so you tend to light up the e
Mwhahaha (Score:2)
What is the fixation with wings? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What is the fixation with wings? (Score:2)
In fact airships are significantly more fuel efficient than aeroplanes for holding position.
The Japanese are testing them *right* now.
http://www.nal.go.jp/eng/newsletter/pdf/200
One simple question (Score:2)
Re:One simple question (Score:3, Interesting)
There are two ways of handling this. One is to get the most efficient conversion possible, t
China (Score:2)
Re:China (Score:4, Insightful)
This is cool but I like China's space program better...they are going to be doing manned exploration of S P A C E.
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Re:China (Score:3, Funny)
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
If they just explored space they'd be the NSA... OH HEY! I think I've stumpled onto something!
I'll be right back.. I hear a knock at the door.
A Few Comments (Score:4, Informative)
I first read about this sort of thing back in the 1970s. Proposals back then focused on constructing huge satellites (think 5 miles by 5 miles or 10 KM by 10 KM) in geosynchronous orbit. Energy would be beamed to earth via microwaves or lasers.
Planes could be powered via laser pointed at various reception devices (photovoltaic, steam generators, etc.).
Clouds would not be a major problem. Just pick a frequency that penetrated the clouds fairly easily. Or, in the case of airplanes, fly above the clouds.
For lots more information, just Google "Space Solar Power" [google.com].
What use is this? (Score:2, Insightful)
The plane, with its five-foot wingspan, weighs only 11 ounces and is constructed from balsa wood, carbon fiber tubing and is covered with Mylar film, a cellophane-like material.... The lightweight, low-speed plane was flown indoors at Marshall to prevent wind and weather from affecting the test flights.... Without the need for onboard fuel or batteries, such a plane could carry scientific or communication equipment, for instance, and stay in flight indefinitely.
Okay, they've gotten a
Wireless laptop power? (Score:3, Interesting)
It'd be nice if I could something like this to work to power my laptop!
Dr. Evil! (Score:2)
Does it matter? (Score:2)
You know SCO will claim that it is their IP, and demand that all airline passengers must pay for a $699 license per engine ($1399 after next Wednesday).
So, what happens when it gets cloudy? (Score:3, Interesting)
Or something else that vexes me even more greatly; will it be able to fly in london? (fog).
Re:So, what happens when it gets cloudy? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think this has it's best use in forms of helping a pilot who has run out of fuel. If planes move to fuel cell propulsion (There is a small fuel cell powered plane on the market now!) in the future, as they will once the technology is perfected in cars, if a pilot is running low on power, he can request a laser assist to limp to the nearest airport.
NASA has a laser powered flying saucer (Score:3, Interesting)
I saw it on a PBS show about advanced propulsion devices a few years ago. Very much a research project, and not currently capable of carrying a payload, but interesting for its simplicity (in the craft at least).
Re:But requires 'fuel' and doesn't scal (Score:2)
I should have patented this idea (Score:2)
Another solution in development for a while (Score:3, Interesting)
About 6 years too late to be the"'first" (Score:2)
Their technolnogy is rather different to nasa's photon-pushed leightweight design, instead they have a 1-kilo spinning-top that has a curved mirror on the bottom, which focuses very short laser pulses from the ground to heat the air under the spinning top to extreme temperatures, 'blasting' the top upwards.
Sadly, their website (www.lightcrafttechnologies.com) was last updated
Space based power production (Score:2)
Better efficency from space based solar collection?
What effects would a power laser beam have on surface stuff (people, computers, animals, plants, etc.)?
What if we had huge, tethered balloons, up several miles as receivers for space based power production. Could you use lower power transfer beams, since you wouldn't have to go through the lower 5-10 miles of atmosphere? You'd then pipe the electricity down to ground based distribution station
Poor journalism/contradictory information. (Score:2, Funny)
Ever since the dawn of powered flight, it has been necessary for all aircraft to carry onboard fuel - whether in the form of batteries, fuel, solar cells, or even a human "engine" - in order to stay aloft.
But a team of researchers from NASA......is trying to change that
But how does it work Bob:
The laser tracks the aircraft in flight, directing its energy beam at specially designed photovoltaic cells carried onboard to power the plane's propeller.
Now how do 'solar cells' count as
Across the Atlantic/Pacific? (Score:2)
A very very long way. Can you say "inefficient"? (Score:2)
Current laser designs are capable of delivering watts of power, at the cost of kilowatts of energy. A few watts, even a few hundred watts is barely enough to power the map light in a plane/space capsule/whatever, let alone make it fly.
They got away with this by:
(a) using incoherent light (a sp
Not the first for beaming energy (Score:2)
spacecraft out past the Moon... (Score:2)
SlashDot effect them to space? (Score:2)
(Yeah, I know it doesn't really work that way.)
How far? (Score:2)
Pretty damn far. I'm still waiting for a flying car [retrofuture.com].
Prior Art (Score:2)
The Brodband Comment is Relavant Only If: (Score:2)
NASA did this in 1999 (Score:2)
Science Fair level engineering (Score:2)
Wrong sig ! (Score:2)
hoping u read this before it goes to -1(offtopic) : your sig is blatantly wrong and should read
Guiness: if you can spell it, you haven't drank enough yet
Re:Wrong sig ! (Score:2)
Guiness: If you can spell it, you haven't drunk enough yet
Daniel
Re:Wrong sig ! (Score:2)
Sorry to spell troll, but I love Guinness and couldn't let beer abuse go unpunished.
Re:Friggin' sharks? (Score:2)
Excuse me, but sea bass are an endangered species now [worldwildlife.org].
Insensitive clod.
Re:Friggin' sharks? (Score:2)
Ummm... tuna? Can we have tuna with friggin lasers?
How about plankton?
Re:Don't cross the beams! (Score:2, Funny)
Dr. Peter Venkman: What?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Don't cross the streams.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Why?
Dr. Egon Spengler: It would be bad.
Dr. Peter Venkman: I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean "bad"?
Dr. Egon Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Dr. Raymond Stantz: Total protonic reversal.
Dr. Peter Venkman: That's bad. Oka
Re:Not a laser.. (Score:5, Informative)
I'm not a physicist, but I've seen lots of inivisble lasers (okay, not the beam itself, but you know...). Lasers in both the infrared and ultraviolet regions are commonplace. Google for "infrared laser" or "ultraviolet laser" and you'll find many, many examples of each.
I suppose you could make some sort of argument that the L in LASER if for "light," and that IR and UV somehow aren't light because we can't see them. But insects and perhaps some animals can see in those regions, so it'd be a difficult position to defend. Both IR and UV are called "light" in general use. Additionally, there's no significant physical difference between a visible light laser and a UV or IR laser. And scientists now use the term "laser" even where most people would agree that the electromagnetic energy in question falls outside the part of the spectrum that we tend to think of as "light," e.g. x-ray lasers [optics2001.com] and microwave lasers [achilles.net].
Re:Not a laser.. (Score:2)
Re:Not a laser.. .. Tesla (Score:2)
Don't be ridiculous. I doubt very much that you can find a freshman physics class in the western hemisphere where Nikola Tesla isn't mentioned. And I don't remember visiting a science museum that didn't have a giant Tesla coil. The man's name is an International Unit for heaven's sake.
Re:Not a laser.. (Score:3, Informative)
Well, if it is invisible, by definition I could not see it...
lasers are in the visible light spectrum
I have an Associate's Degree in Laser Electro-Optic Technology. Any oscillator that produces electromagnetic radiation in the range of infrared or shorter wavelengths by the process of stimulated emission of radiation is considered a laser. In fact, the name has become shorthand for just about anything that produces a beam of anything through quantum
Re:Ummm... (Score:2)
Hmmm. No, you're the only one at the moment. Is there any reason we should?
Re:It's not the first "light" powered craft (Score:2)