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Space Science

Halley's Comet Imaged As Transneptunian Object 139

Posted by timothy from the speck-among-speckles dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The European Space Observatory has imaged Halley's Comet at the farthest point (past Neptune) in which such a 10-kilometer diameter iceball has ever been observed. To image a comet as a raven-black object, without its bright dust tail (coma), is equivalent to seeing a lump of coal at the distance between the Earth's poles and to do so in the evening twilight. The last gasp seen from Halley's Comet was 1991, when a gigantic explosion happened, providing it with an expanding, extensive cloud of dust for several months. It is not known whether this event was caused by a collision with an unknown piece of rock or by internal processes (a last 'sigh' on the way out). Halley has an orbital period just over 76 years and will return in 2062."
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Halley's Comet Imaged As Transneptunian Object

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  • Reading this made me think of the comet rendevous in 2061. I doubt that I'll live to see something like that actualy accomplished.

    What we need is another space race, some incentive to get there. My guess is that the next space race will be for resources, metals, chemicals, etc.

  • Couldn't have been a collision, methinks (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jonas the Bold ( 701271 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:08AM (#6856882)
    It is not known whether this event was caused by a collision with an unknown piece of rock or by internal processes (a last 'sigh' on the way out).

    If they were able to image it, it seems they knew where it was, by mapping where it was going. If it had collided with something, it's trajectory would have changed.

    So does this give us new insight as to how comets die? And if they die, how are they still comets? How does the solar system replenish its comet supply?
    • good question perhaps we should check other intersolarsystem comets and their orbit relationship with Neptune, perhaps an astroid collision may make more. Lots of ice there.
    • A large expulsion of matter can change the trajectory too.

      The Oort cloud has trillions potential comets, and their orbits are occasionally disturbed enough to send a few sunward.

      Comets die when they don't have enough volatile material to throw out a cloud when they approach the sun.
    • Comets are formed when solar nebulae condense. On a cosmic time scale, this is happening all the time. The effects of gravity will work its magic on their orbits, a few of them might find their way into our neighborhood. A good source for information about this is at http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comets
    • Even if the event was caused by internal processes, trajectory changes are still possible due to Newton's 3rd law of motion. A last 'sigh' may not generate as much momentum as a collision, but it should still have enough impulse to make determination of the exact nature of the event non-trivial.

      Should we be worried about the solar system replenishing its comets? I don't think running out of comets should concern us Earth dwellers that much. In fact, it would be best to have as few of them as possible unl
      • Our technology gives us an edge over our Cretaceous-dwelling friends, but the resources needed for a comet defense force seem outrageous when you consider all the problems on Earth that need money, political will, and man power.

        For all that extra brainpower we still can't seem to overcome stupidity.

    • So does this give us new insight as to how comets die?

      Forgot to d/l the latest Windows XP patch. Got blaster worm. Rebooted every 60 seconds and suffered from periodic DoS attacks as a result of RPC vulnerability.

      At least, that's probably what they mean by 'internal processes'.


    • When I first read the post, I thought they were saying that Haley's comet exploded. But if you read the articles that were linked, they say that comet 57P/du Toit-Neujmin-Delporte exploded, not Haley's comet. So I am a little confused as to what exactly the explosion of 57P/du Toit-Neujmin-Delporte has to do with Haley's comet. Other than the date and the posters ability to provide gratuitis links and confuse the issue.
    • Of course, other astrophysical forces could have been responsible. It didn't have to be a local impact event - ever heard of gravity waves? Regardless, I don't appreciate such closed speculation within science.

  • In case of slashdotting... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:10AM (#6856886)
    Here's the image, in case it gets /.'ed:

    . . . . . .
    . , . . . . (the 2nd one)
    . . . . . .

  • What's the fun... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by supersam ( 466783 )
    ... in seeing a comet without its dust tail??
    • What's the fun in seeing a comet *with* its dust tail?

    • Re:What's the fun... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      That's human curiosity, what allowed us to survive and evolve through ages. Give us some knowledge buried under a giant rock and we'll put huge efforts in removing that rock.
      The same applies to the comet's tail: there's a chance to learn something by making observations without the comet tail hiding things.

      • Re:What's the fun... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by iMMersE ( 226214 )
        Hmmm, we didn't have "human curiosity" before we "evolved through [the] ages".

        We had "ape curiosity", or as some scientists call it, "wow-that-ground-sure-looks-better-than-these-tree s curiosity."

  • I'll take it up with Mark Twain... (Score:3, Funny)

    by toxic666 ( 529648 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:21AM (#6856923)
    and see if he is any more impressed than me. Perhaps he'll be more concerned about a 1 in 909,000 chance of an impact than he was about his odds of winning a frog jumping contest.

  • Cool Fact (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Moridineas ( 213502 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:26AM (#6856937) Journal
    Almost 1000 years ago, Halley's Comet was overhead during the Battle of Hastings in the year 1066. That long ago, the comet was said to have virtually filled the sky it was so bright. It must have been perceived as a powerful omen.

    • Re:Cool Fact (Score:4, Informative)

      by toxic666 ( 529648 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:40AM (#6856979)
      Wll, at least sometime around the Battle of Hastings. It appeared near Easter, 1066 and Harold was warned it was a BAD OMEN. Hastings was in September or October, 1066. The Bayeux Tapestry (yes, I've seen it) records the events and the comet appears well before the battle above Harold's minions warning him.

      So shove your Cool Fact urban legend. Not even the Middle Ages records support your ignorant claim.
      • What's with the venom? Having investigated further, I see that I was wrong. Halley's Comet appeared SHORTLY before the actual Battle of Hastings. But what's an urban legend about this, I'm not sure I understand? It WAS there in 1066 and it WAS huge.

        And you capitalize "BAD OMEN" as if to negate something I said? Did I say it was a good omen?

        I'm sorry that I was slightly off in my post (I freely acknowledge this), but come on, no reason to get bent out of shape.

    • Re:Cool Fact (Score:3, Informative)

      by toxic666 ( 529648 )
      I'm sorry I did not flame this comment with the vehemence it deserves. I'm a blood-loyal American of bavarian descent, but respect and study other cultures. The Bayeux Tapestry records the events quite well, or at least better than any other extant records. Harold and his Anglo-Saxon advisors saw the comet around Easter, 1066, well before the battles that shaped the future of England began. Prior to that, he had been washed ashore on the Norman coast and pledged allegiance to William of Normandy in retu
      • The comet was seen as an EVIL OMEN. Look, was it really that EVIL or BAD that you need to type it in all caps, twice?-)
        • Goddammit that omen really is EVIL, caused me to press submit instead of preview... Just ignore me like you usually do.

  • Astonishing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Timesprout ( 579035 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:27AM (#6856939)
    They can pick out such a small dark object at that distance. Makes me hope that maybe one day the Star Trek scenes where Picard asks Data for range to object and then has it on screen in living colour at 50 million Kilometres may one day become a reality.
    • Hey I'm still waiting for the voice activated computer and cheap fusion power.
    • Yeah, and make sure you get the Jeffries Tubes in balance while boundcing an inverse tachyon beam off the target. Then Q will show up and make sure you don't cause an inverse graviton time distortion and suck us all into anti-nowhere.

      How about getting a life that is remotely possible, like writing cheap knock-offs of Windoze viruses.
      • Well, we have three Trek shows named after a place or ship. There's Deep Space 9, Voyager, and Enterprise. I think this trend will continue with Berman and Braga's next creative masterpiece. Star Trek Deus Ex Machina. Tune in every week to see how they modify the transporter, holodeck, warp nacelles, or the deflector dish on the Deus Ex Machina to get out the latest jam. Marvel at the richly detailed Treknobabble! That chief engineer and science officer sure are smart!
      • "Yeah, and make sure you get the Jeffries Tubes in balance while boundcing an inverse tachyon beam off the target. Then Q will show up and make sure you don't cause an inverse graviton time distortion and suck us all into anti-nowhere." How about getting a life that is remotely possible, like writing cheap knock-offs of Windoze viruses.

        Hello, toxic666. I thought I'd just point out the irony in demonstrating more than passing knowledge of Star Trek while you insult a post that referenced Star Trek...

    • To keep up with the good journalists who wrote this article, shown with "...or nearly 1000 million times fainter...", or at nature.com [nature.com] with their "...thousandth of a millimetre across..." and "...rated at a millionth of a milliamp...", you should state 50 million as some obscure number, such as 50000 thousand, or 50000 kilomiles, or 5000 10000 miles. Come on man, keep with the times.
    • >>>

      Here...let me clear this up a bit: this Star Trek thang'. See, in it's original form, Star Trek isn't about technology, it'a about people - people who are adventurers (rabid adventurers) who just happen to use technology to help them get where they are going. So, we see guys like Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc. hammering about God's Creation looking for Alien Love, Perfect Logic and down-home Georgia cookin' - in that order. Nevertheless, they are on a quest, and whether you agree with them, or not

  • The real reason for the telescope (Score:3, Funny)

    by KingRob ( 698441 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:31AM (#6856952)
    ESA's sekret plan is to point that baby at the Apollo landing site and prove once and for all, those lying Amerikanischer Schweinhund never made it to the moon!

  • Slightly over-hyped (Score:5, Interesting)

    by panurge ( 573432 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:34AM (#6856961)
    Everything else has been removed from the picture. In effect, in order to see the comet you have to know exactly where it is, and what all the other things are in the vicinity. It also took a lot of observation (hours) to get the picture.

    It's a remarkable achievement, and shows what can be done with Earth-based telescopes, but it seems to be more proof of concept than practical.

    • Re:Slightly over-hyped (Score:5, Informative)

      by MartyC ( 85307 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:50AM (#6857005) Homepage
      True. Halley's Comet is ideal for this kind of observation because it has one of the most accurately known orbits of all comets of this kind of orbital period.
      But you shouldn't see this as just a comet finding exercise (though it does prove the capabilities of the VLT rather well).
      By analysing the image further it will be possible to determine whether there is any activity at this distance, or a residual dust cloud. Depending on what filters they used for the observation, they might be able to compare the "colour" of the nucleus with that observed by the spacecraft back in 1986 and look for changes. This might indicate a change in surface conditions at large distances form the sun.
    • Back in the old days science was 95% imagination, 5% data.

      Now it's 5% imagination, 5% data, and 90% computation.

    • The comet was imaged as part of a much larger survey of transneptunian objects. Its the survey thats the science. Finding Halleys Comet provides two very important things. First, because the comet is in a predictable location and has a perdictable brightness, its imaging will provide a baseline for calibrating the survey processes. Second, the imaging creates a great news story to keep the public interested in astronomy.

  • just to clarify (Score:5, Informative)

    by MartyC ( 85307 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:38AM (#6856976) Homepage
    That should be European Southern Observatory (www.eso.org [eso.org]).

  • Explosion didn't involve Halley? (Score:5, Informative)

    by meowsqueak ( 599208 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @03:54AM (#6857010)
    Hmmm, I read that as a 'gigantic explosion' involving Halley's Comet, however it seems to involve Comet 57P/du Toit-Neujmin-Delporte according to one of the linked articles. Did I miss something?

  • Incorrect link or error in the article (Score:4, Informative)

    by shanen ( 462549 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @04:08AM (#6857044) Homepage Journal
    The link that is described as referring to an event involving Halley's Comet is talking about a different comet. I should poke around for events actually involving Halley's, but I'll just settle for saying that I don't recall hearing anything unusual as it wandered away, and I'm actually rather skeptical we could see so much of it at that time (though the latest imaging is an impressive accomplishment).
  • I've been complaining about the signal to noise ratio in the media for a while. Can you picture what this technology could do to CNN coverage, or (gasp) Slashdot?

    No wait, it requires a long exposure to the signal. No improvement for all of the "All the news in the blink of a hyperactive ferret on vivarin's eye" culture.

  • OK... (Score:2, Funny)

    by advocate_one ( 662832 )
    If they can image a piece of coal some 20,500km away... can they please try and find those black socks I lost on the beach at Scunthorpe last year???
  • Anyone else see the dancing mouse in the lower left hand corner? I swear, those darn magic eye pictures take me *FOREVER* to see....

  • Knock before entering. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "Halley has an orbital period just over 76 years and will return in 2062."

    I plan on being out of town that year.
  • As I distinctly remember observing Halley with the naked eye in March 1996 then the /. take on all this is simply wrong.
  • I saw it last time it came close - I must have been 12 or 13. If I can make it to 89 without my eyesight failing too much, I hope to see it again, and by that time I hope I'll

    a) Have a decent-sized telescope
    b) Not live in London where you can't see a damn thing in the night sky

    • Re:I saw it last time (Score:1, Interesting)

      by LoadWB ( 592248 )
      That sounds about right for me as well. I remember that Hardees was selling these mini telescope things to use to see it in the night sky. I lived in North Dakota at the time and the clear nights (I seem to recall seeing it in the winter) were perfect for viewing. Being 17 miles from the nearest city's lights also helped. It was actually quite awesome and I believe I still have the telescope in a box somewhere... though I doubt it, or for that matter Hardees, will survive to 2062.

      I wish I could accurat

      • Re:I saw it last time (Score:3, Interesting)

        by EnglishTim ( 9662 )
        Did you have a look at Mars last week? I did, but only through this tiny collapsable telescope a friend gave me. It was very difficult to find Mars in the first place as fully extending the telescope focuses it at somewhere past infinity so the deal was:

        a) try and find something in the distance to focus on (not easy at nighttime - luckily the sillhouette of the trees against the bright yellow London night sky sufficed)
        b) try for ages to get the damn thing pointing in the right direction
        c) Try not to look t
  • Reporter: Mr. Halley, if we could just get a word. As we all know, you made your last appearance in 1991...

    Mr. Halley: Get the hell out of here! I aint appearing again until 2062, and that's that! No interviews, no nothing! Hey, it takes me 76 years to prepare for these shows, and I don't need somebody ruining my concentration...

  • It's not like imagine that lump of coal at all (Score:3, Insightful)

    by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) ( 613870 ) on Wednesday September 03, 2003 @10:03AM (#6858402) Journal
    I'd put money on it in fact being impossible to view a lump of coal at that distance. In fact, I propose someone do a lump of coal viewing test. These people can get away with all sorts of silly analogies to make themselves seem impressive and nobody calls their bluff.

  • Sigh.... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Not even the editors RTFA.

  • here's a stoopid question:

    How long is halley's comet going to last? If its a little 10km diameter object thats not only melting on each pass, but breaking up as well, how many times can it survive its lap of the sun?

    Inquiring Minds want to Know!

  • um.. 1991 + 76 != 2062...

    or did I miss something important somewhere?

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