Brazilian Rocket Explodes on Launch Pad

steman writes "BBC News Online says that 16 people have been killed and a Brazillian space rocket was destroyed in an explosion in Brazil. It seems that the space race is heating up again, with many countries getting involved such as China, Europe and Japan to name just three. Will the future of space exploration be dominated by names other than Russia and the USA?"

Re:Europe is a continent

[The Uninformed]

Last time I checked steman wasn't a /. editor

Re:Since when...

[j7953]

But as far as I know none of the countries has its own space program, they cooperate in the European Space Agency [esa.int].

Re:Since when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, most of the effort from European Union countries comes through the European Space Agency [esa.int]. This is why it's probably okay to classify them as "the europeans". They've not done any solo manned stuff yet, but have done a lot with space probes and unmanned missions.

Although they don't have manned launch vehicles of their own, they work with the Soviets and with NASA. Their highest profile manned project is their work on the International Space Station [esa.int] - both in terms of supplying space hardware and astronauts. Their most notable unmanned project is the groundbreaking joint-NASA SOHO [estec.esa.nl] sun observation probe.

Upcoming projects of note: a manned Mars [esa.int] mission is in the (very) early planning stages.

It seems as though international cooperation should be the *only* way to go when it comes to grand plans such as reaching Mars. If NASA, ESA, China, India and the Soviets all put their differences aside and pulled together - humanity could become a truly spacefaring species within our lifetimes (graduating from a "type 0" to a "type 1" species that has mastered interplanetary travel [where type 2,3 = extra-solar and galactic travel).

21 Dead

[zzztkf]

By Nihon Keizai Shinun, the number of death has reached 21. Other 20 persons are heavily wounded. It's tragedy for everyone.

Re:Why

[Anonymous Coward]

The rocket that exploded was meant to put satellites in orbit rather than sending people to outer space. This program is plausible since it's very expensive to use foreign tecnology to do that. Space programs aren't just sending people to outter space to develop cancers and glioblastoms in them after placing a flag and collecting dust.

There're some very bright people working at those projects here (with budgets smaller than you can imagine) and only because Brazil has other problems it does not mean that we don't have the right to have our own space program. Think about the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and you'll see that they're more expensive than what is expected for the NASA Mission to Mars in 2020 (40 bi plus 4 bi each launch).

Instead of developing useful tecnology with those programs, some governments (along with approval from the population) cut the space program's money and invest in other things like warfare just because they think that space programs are just "sending men to the moon" or that they're dangerous for the people involved. This right when the war has already killed more than 60. Go figure.

Re:Since when...

[wheezl]

Whoever modded this as flamebait is an idiot. While the EU is an economic entity.. to call Europe a country is just plain silly.

Yes and no

[amcguinn]

In some ways, a country like the UK has less independent power than Texas, as the EU regulates particularly economic matters more than the federal US government

In most ways, conversely, the EU member states are more independent than US states (e.g. they each have their own army - UK did not need EU approval to send troops to Iraq)

The interesting point is that there is no limit to the power that will be centralised in the EU, and an assumption that every few years a new round of treaties will centralise power further. The treaties are full of the phrase "Ever Closer Union", and explicitly prevent seccession. (To the best of my knowledge, the equivalent question in the USA was, um, unclear until 1861-65).

Obligatory plug (though my membership lapsed some years ago): UKIP [independence.org.uk]

Some info on current space missions...

[Aardpig]

Will the future of space exploration be dominated by names other than Russia and the USA?

This question implies that space exploration in the past was dominated by the two superpowers. From a manned spaceflight perspective, this implication is quite correct; but from an unmanned perspective, it is rather inaccurate. Over the last three decades, a large proportion of the activity in unmanned space exploration has been undertaken by countries other than two superpowers. And let's not forget that, unlike most unmanned misisons, the moon race was about politics, not science.

Looking towards the future, quite a bit of the exploration of our solar system involves both USA/Russia and other countries, either in collaboration or in competition. Particular missions to keep an eye on include:

• Beagle 2 [beagle2.com], the probe onboard the European Space Agency's [esa.int] Mars Express [esa.int] mission. Beagle 2 is scheduled to touch down on Mars this December, and amongst its tasks it will be searching for life, using techniques far more accurate than the previous tests by the Viking Lander [nasa.gov] probes. Mars Express, the spacecraft carring Beagle 2, blasted off from Baikonur Cosmodrome on a Russian-built rocket earlier this year; movies of the launch can be found here [capcave.com]
• Two Mars Exploration Rovers [nasa.gov], which are robots based on NASA's [nasa.gov] very successful 1997 Pathfinder [nasa.gov] mission. The two rovers are due for touchdown in January 2004; they are targeted at analysing the geology of Mars.
• Cassini [nasa.gov], a NASA probe destined for Saturn. Apart from flybys by deep-space probes, we've never had a decent look at Saturn and its satellites. On-board Cassini is the Huygens probe, which will be dropped through the thick hydrocarbon atmosphere of Titan. Titan is the largest of Saturn's moons, and the only satellite in the solar system to have an atmosphere.
• MESSENGER [jhuapl.edu], a NASA mission to Mercury due for launch next year, which will arrive in orbit around the innermost planet in 2009. Amongst other things, MESSENGER will ascertain whether Mercury has deposits of water ice deep within high-walled impact craters near its poles.
• Venus Express [esa.int], the European Space Agency's sister misison to Mars Express, will depart for Venus in December 2005, arriving at the planet the following summer. It will analyse the atmosphere and the surface of the planet, and hopefully explain the anomalous chemical compositions within the atmosphere, which some have suggested are due to microbial life.

So, we can see that there is a lot going on at the moment in the field of space exploration. Over the past few days, I've been watching HBO's "From the Earth to the Moon", and its made me regret that I wasn't alive during the space race. But, on reflection, there is plenty going on right now to get excited about!

Re:Yes and no

[Anonymous Coward]

The UK is not a good choice for your example since it is one of the few EU countries that is not part of the "EuroZone", so is not subject to the same economic interference. Germany or France would have been a better choice, and even they are not sticking to the rules. The EU (in its current incarnation) is best thought of as a framework through which separate countries cooperate with each other on many things. Though there are some in Europe, particularly in Belgium and to some extent Germany and France who would like a United States of Europe, there are others, most notaby the UK and the Scandinavian countries, who are less keen.

Re:Since when...

[nusuth]

ESA is not an EU agency. In fact the information is just one click away from your link:

Who belongs to ESA? ESA's 15 Member States are Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. Canada has special status and participates in some projects under a cooperation agreement. As can be seen from this list, not all member countries of the European Union are members of ESA and not all ESA Member States are members of the EU. ESA is an entirely independent organisation although it maintains close ties with the EU with whom it shares a joint space strategy.

It's a satellite launche vehicle

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Just to clear one point, the rocket that exploded is not intended for space exploration; it is the third generation of the "VLS - Veiculo Lancador de Satelites", or Satellite Launch Vehicle.

It is a rocket to boost satellites to orbit, a scientific and commercial endeavor, since being close to the Equator make the Alcantara base in Brazil a good launch site.

More on english:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200308/23/eng200 30823_122894.shtml [peopledaily.com.cn]

More on Google News:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe= utf-8&q=brazil+vls&sa=N&tab=wn [google.com]

Thanks,
a Brazilian.

Re:Since when...

[christophe]

BTW, some ESA members like Norway or Switzerland do not belong to the European Union. The ESA and "Europe" (as UE) have probably links must the ESA is not the NASA from the UE.
(And the UE is only half or Europe now, and 2/3 next years).

Future of space exploration.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure that in an window of 20/30 years the US will loose almost all market share in commercial launch. It didn't lose it already because of a strong support provided by the military which fill many launchs.
The french rocket, Arianne is cheap and better.
Despite all dirty and bad behaviour from the US Gov few years ago, trying to shut down the french program.

Btw.. U still have China, India and Ukrain running after the share.

PN

Re:Since when...

[ebassi]

But as far as I know none of the countries has its own space program

Italian Space Agency (ASI), even if part of the ESA, has its own space programme. Part of the International Space Station (the habitats, AFAIR) is provided directly by ASI; there's the "Beppo Sax" satellite, which was successfully used for studying the gamma ray burst events; the tethered satellites tested in two shuttle missions (1992 and 1996); part of the Cassini/Huygens probe that will arrive on Saturn next year; Integral, a gamma ray observatory, etc.

The Italian Space Agency is also working on vector for small payloads (

They're also working on a fission-based propulsion system, codenamed "Project 242".

Re:Europe is NOT a continent

[Waffle Iron]

What is the definition of "continent"?

It has to do with plate tectonics. If it's a large thickened section of the earth's crust "floating" on the mantle, and it moves around as a single independent unit, then it's a continent.

Leaving the Union

[LeftOfCentre]

The treaties are full of the phrase "Ever Closer Union", and explicitly prevent seccession.

The new EU constitution [eu.int], due for adoption next year if things go right, explicitly guarantees member states the freedom to leave the Union:

Article 59: Voluntary withdrawal from the Union

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the European Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention; the European Council shall examine that notification. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council of Ministers, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

The representative of the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in Council of Ministers or European Council discussions or decisions concerning it.

3. The Constitution shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, decides to extend this period.

4. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to re-join, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 57.

Re:Like, WTF?

[Martin Blank]

Would it not be cheaper to contract with the USA, ESA, Russia, or even China to launch satellites to monitor their country than to develop an entire space program on its own? The satellites might cost a couple hundred million dollars to design, build, launch, and manage, but how much did the Brazilian cosmodrome cost? What about the cost of the R&D for the rocket?

There is a pride concern for Brazil. They have an enormous opportunity, and they know it, as they sit on the equator, and have the best chance to get the best performance out of launch vehicles. What the US and especially Russia struggle to do from their launch locations would be much easier for Brazil. The Energia heavy-lift booster was capable of a 100,000kg capacity from Baikonur, and supposedly could be expanded to 200,000kg with additional strap-on boosters, and that's from 46 degrees above the equator. How much additional payload would be possible from an on- or near-equator launch? This is certainly a best-case scenario, but even with something like the Atlas V and its 13,000kg payload capacity, even modest additional payload could allow just one more transmitter or one more instrument to be added, or to have just that much better an orbit be reached.