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Biotech Science

Scientists Clone Horse 79

Posted by timothy from the of-course dept.
The Night Watchman writes "Italian scientists have produced the world's first horse clone, according to Yahoo News. Racing is likely to become slightly more interesting in the coming years..."
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Scientists Clone Horse More

Scientists Clone Horse

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  • ... A clony pony?
  • I don't think that cloning will make much difference to current methods of selective breeding; after all, selective breeding works just fine as it is, and I don't think that horses can really be "improved" any further without some large anomalistic genetic change in a large proportion of the species.
    • Cloned horses wouldn't be allowed to race...

      D. To be eligible for registration, a foal must be the result of a stallion's Breeding with a broodmare (which is the physical mounting of a broodmare by a stallion with intromission of the penis and ejaculation of semen into the reproductive tract).

      Taken from this site [jockeyclub.com].

      Also, NPR had a cool story a couple of months ago about the actual process that they go through when trying to breed thoroughbreds. All I can say is that I really felt sorry for the 'teaser

    • In addition to the strict breeding requirements, there's also the fact that race horses seem to have pretty much reached their "design limits", so to speak. WIthout some sort of fairly substantial change (which would render the horse no-longer-conformant to strict race-horse specifications that horse racing organizations use) to the horse's physiology, I doubt anyone could really get anything any better than what already exists...

      It does make me wonder, though - you couldn't race a cloned horse according

      • Its logical to assume this is permitted:

        - The rule quoted above, doesnt seem to question the origin of the horses you breed, just their specifications - and HOW they must reproduce

        - Genetically, cloning a male animal and then using the clone to reproduce in a natural way, is identical to having the original reproduce in the same way

        If you were to clone a female animal, and reproduce using the clone, there would be a genetic difference. The offspring would then have:
        - one strand of DNA from its father

      • > which would render the horse
        > no-longer-conformant to strict race-horse
        > specifications that horse racing organizations
        > use

        There are no such specifications.

        > It does make me wonder, though - you couldn't race
        > a cloned horse according to the existing rules,
        > but could you 'naturally' produce a foal from
        > cloned horses that WOULD be eligible to race?...

        No. The Jockey Club will only register the offspring of horses registered with them and they will not register a cloned horse.

  • SeaBiscuit 2 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @02:55PM (#6627564)
    ccBiscuit (carbon copy)

    Either that or a glitch in the Matrix...they've changed something...oh yeah, the new Apple license!

  • Or less interesting... (Score:5, Funny)

    by nortcele ( 186941 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @02:56PM (#6627570) Homepage
    Gate1: Sea Biscuit Odds 1/1
    Gate2: Sea Biscuit Odds 1/1
    Gate3: Sea Biscuit Odds 1/1
    Gate4: Sea Biscuit Odds 1/1
    etc...

  • Jeez... (Score:3, Funny)

    by IpsissimusMarr ( 672940 ) * on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @02:59PM (#6627585) Journal
    Out of a total of 841 reconstructed embryos, only 22 developed to advanced embryos within about a week. Seventeen of those were introduced into nine mares, resulting in four pregnancies, but only one, Prometea, developed to full term.

    Jeez... if you really want that genetically enhanced captain of the football team genius scientist Richard Gere looking son you better start soon!

  • The steed of choice for the (Score:5, Funny)

    by lightspawn ( 155347 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @03:01PM (#6627607) Homepage
    Clone Ranger.

  • No, no, I've got it.. (Score:3, Funny)

    by L. VeGas ( 580015 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @03:08PM (#6627656) Homepage Journal
    They did it to make a...

    Battalion of Italian Stallions

    har har har *hiccup*

  • a clone of a horse is a horse, of course,of course (Score:4, Funny)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @03:15PM (#6627707)
    And no one can talk to a clone of a horse of course
    That is, of course, unless the clone of the horse is a clone of the famous Mister Ed!

    "She's the clone!"
    "No, _she's_ the clone!"
  • According to the New Scientist [newscientist.com], cloned mammals suffer from some genetic defects. This would open new possibilites for betting: how many races can the horse run - or which clone dies in this race.

    I'm not sure if this is a good thing (TM)...
    • Yup, you can't clone mammals all that well. Each cell's genetic code is imprinted (the DNA is chemically modified with -NH3+ molecules, iirc, so it can't be read) so that it's not the same as the original embryonic cells.

      The clone would be different from the original :D

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @03:17PM (#6627729)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The technology is pretty advanced, and the recordkeeping / auditing requirements when dealing with million-dollar horses is staggering.

      If you think that is staggering, you should check out the breeding records and projections of the Bene Gesserit. You could see a Muad'dib from a mile away!
    • Horse Racing doesn't allow AI

      Good for them! It was a crappy movie anyway!

    • So does that make you a stallion fluffer?

      Reminds me of this conversation I started at a party once about bull-fluffers... what's even more amazing than the 12 people who participated, and the poor Domino's Pizza guy we scared the crap out of, is the fact we got 15 minutes of hang-time out of that gag...

      <shudder>

      Yah... that's a story I want to tell the grand-kids...

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • From the article (Score:4, Informative)

    by secolactico ( 519805 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @03:19PM (#6627747) Journal
    "The most obvious use is to give a sterile animal or animals that die or can't breed because of some disease a chance to reproduce," Galli said.

    Thus doing away with that pesky natural selection. Not that that's a bad thing... ;-)
    • This made me think about mules, which as we all should know, are infertile. Suppose you happened to get a super big strong and fast mule... I would probably think that cloning it would be a good idea. Then again, what do I know - do mules actually do anything that horses or donkeys can't?
  • Breeding allows us to enhance the "good" genes while getting rid of the "bad" ones. Cloning doesn't allow for improvement. So until they start messing with genetic modifications (which will probably lead to a lot of screwed-up horses), I doubt clones are going to be winning many races.
    • But, it would be useful in the case of a gelding, for example, who turned out to be a good race horse after all. The genes are the same, so you could breed the clone.

  • Yes, but.. (Score:4, Funny)

    by poity ( 465672 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @03:35PM (#6627858)
    have they isolated the genes that will make me hung like one?
    • but being a nerd, all you would do with it is piss on your shoes.
    • Yes, and there are a number of companies out there who want to sell you their penis-enlarging product. In fact, they keep sending me emails saying that my (nonexistent) relationship with my (nonexistent) wife and/or special person will be deepened and/or enriched if I use their product to enhance my (apparently so small it's nonexistent) penis.

  • Dolly and Arthritus (Score:1, Insightful)

    by aplank ( 678451 )
    I wonder how long this horse will live. Dolly didnt live very long because she had stunted telomeres and I am pretty sure that this horse's telomeres are stunted also.

  • You all have no idea.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by wowbagger ( 69688 ) * on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @04:01PM (#6628044) Homepage Journal
    You all have no idea how important this is!

    Don't you see - now, after we have beaten any given dead horse (e.g. Microsoft is evil, X is slow, ??AA sucks) into a slurry, we can salvage its DNA, clone it, raise the clone to maturity, kill it, and continue to beat it some more!

    This invention has singlehandedly saved the Internet!
  • a horse is a horse of course of course
    and no one can talk to a horse of course
    That is of course, unless the horse
    is a clone of a horse with human genes spliced in

  • Neigh! (Score:3, Funny)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @04:09PM (#6628113) Homepage Journal
    Sadly, Wired magazine had a sharp drop in sales in the month of July when customers confused the cover featuring the cloned horse for Janet Reno.

  • From a working horse owner's perspective (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @04:23PM (#6628209) Homepage Journal
    I can't claim to have real "working" horses -- we're not on the King Ranch [king-ranch.com] riding a hundred miles of fence on horseback. We've got a couple of horses (with more on the way) that we've selected for their smarts and endurance. They're Appaloosas [appaloosa.com], but the pretty patterns are strictly a nice feature, not a design requirement.

    So this statement really irritates me:
    [Texas A&M research veterinarian Katrin] Hinrichs is awaiting the birth of a cloned American quarter horse -- a copy of Hinrichs' 9-year-old daughter's show horse -- in mid-November. She believes cloning's most obvious use in the horse industry would be cloning such show horses.
    Unfortunately, this researcher is probably right on the money, literally. There is huge money in show horses, just like there is in purebred show dogs. The problem is how selective breeding -- in both cases -- has resulted in an animal that is useless for any real purpose.

    Appaloosas get bred for particular patterns of spots, Quarter Horses get bred for very specific ratios of body parts, Arabians are bred to hold themselves "just so"... you get the picture. Thoroughbreds, bred for speed, may be the only horses that are commercially bred for something that is even remotely "natural" to a horse's instincts -- and even they are broken down and "retired" at an age when a working horse is just getting started.

    What you see, way too often, is a horse that looks pretty, but is completely screwed up in the head. And that's with traditional breeding (and I'm including the straw o'semen in the "traditional" category). I can only imagine the neurotic, unpredictable horses that will come from cloning the "best" show horses. They'll be useless for any actual work, probably won't be able to reproduce without assistance (already a problem today), and will be a danger to their rider and anyone nearby.

    Give me a field-bred "grade" horse over a "show" horse any day. It's like our dogs -- we have two mixed-breed puppies (half Jack Russell) that are sharp as a tack. The big black dog that got dumped as a puppy is the loyal protector of the household. And the $700 Schnauzer is the stupidest creature on the face of God's green earth. Show dog? No thanks, I'll take the mutt in the corner.
    • Well, while that seems to be excluding many of the draft breeds, arguably they are being enhanced for function. Horses have 4 mainstream uses at the moment:
      1) Racing.
      2) Showing/Jumping/et al.
      3) Herding/farm work.
      4) Pleasure riding.

      I'm on the eastern seaboard, so I almost swapped #3 and #4.

      As for horses not right in the head, the worst ones I've encountered have _always_ been thoroughbreds off the track. Not that the others are all brilliant, but the thoroughbreds were almost exclusively ditzey.

      The one th
    • You rightly point out several of the fallacies in this current cloning debate.

      Unfortunately you also highlight why it will continue. Not so we can see Pharlap II race, not for laudable if debatable medical purposes, but so that rich fools with nothing better to waste their money on can attempt (and fail) to "recreate" their dear old Schmookie/Fido/Kujo...

      History does repeat, but not that literally. Hrm, an exact clone of my old pet that looks different, acts different and has a reduced life span...

      I

    • very common in dogs.

      For instance, Irish Setters are beautiful but the brains have been breed out of them.

      Golden Retrievers have big time hip problems.

      Cocker Spaniels have ear problems.

      The list goes on where beauty has overcome function.

      Whereas border collies are sharp as tacks because the are breed for working/brains. Not too many people care what they look like.

      • Except my parent's Irish Setter. With 3 legs and a penchant for scratching me whenever she sees me, I can't understand how she can balance on two legs... but she's got my parent's wrapped around her little paws. Whipped I say. That, and she's the first dog in the entire bunch, 4 purebreds and 3 mongrels, to detect strange people at 100 yards instantly.

        There is lots of variation in purebred dogs. The worst part is that many breeds, like my Gordon Setters, bring lots of genetic defects with them (hip dys
    • "What you see, way too often, is a horse that looks pretty, but is completely screwed up in the head."

      And how is this different from women?

    • What you see, way too often, is a horse that looks pretty, but is completely screwed up in the head. And that's with traditional breeding (and I'm including the straw o'semen in the "traditional" category). I can only imagine the neurotic, unpredictable horses that will come from cloning the "best" show horses. They'll be useless for any actual work, probably won't be able to reproduce without assistance (already a problem today), and will be a danger to their rider and anyone nearby.

      Some years ago, Scie [sciam.com]

  • The most obvious use is to give a sterile animal or animals that die or can't breed because of some disease a chance to reproduce

    And WHY do we want to do that? Are there morals that tell us to give every animal a chance to reproduce, or do we just like seeing weak and ill-prone beings reproduce and take a sh*t in the genetic pool?
    • hmm, not every circumstance in which an animal has acquired a disease may be due to natural causes, and many of the reasons that we now find animals becoming extinct has alot to do with humans exercising their right of "survival of the fittest." If it was true that when humans burn down a forest and any animals that don't survive have only been filtered out of the gene pool, then your argument would seem to make sense. But that's just not the case. This isn't us screwing up the gene pool, it's an attemp
      • This isn't us screwing up the gene pool, it's an attempt to fix it

        By letting animals that naturally shouldn't have offspring... breed? Sounds like a good idea to me, since mother nature WANTED them to breed...
        • It's not about what mother nature wants or doesnt want. It's about preserving something that is about to be destroyed.
          • It's not about what mother nature wants or doesnt want. It's about preserving something that is about to be destroyed.

            Not everything is meant to be preserved... especially when it comes to horses. They have plenty, why bother with the sickley ones? There's no point in putting embryos in them.

  • racing will likely become more interesting

    How will it be more interesting when all the horses are identical?
  • The mother horse gave birth to her own clone. That's somewhat like this plant I have that keeps making copies of itself. And even weirder: it's like giving birth to your own identical twin! Scary! I'm glad that I'm a man...
  • Darryl and the whole works, if they have cloned a horse there is no reason why they cannot clone a certain part of the horse.

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