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Space Science

Armadillo Aero One Step Closer To Space 213

RobertB-DC writes "The folks at Armadillo Aerospace have taken another step toward the X-Prize, dropping their re-entry vehicle from 2000 feet with no major problems noted. As usual, the Armadillo crew documented the event with text, pictures and video, and the story is also covered by Space.com (though without as many cool technical details). It's a bumpy ride, though -- instruments recorded some 10 G's on touchdown."
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Armadillo Aero One Step Closer To Space

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:22PM (#6397332)
    It could be a very smooth, fast drop.
  • by carl67lp ( 465321 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:23PM (#6397339) Journal
    Lately, we've been hearing more and more about the X Prize and the amateur (and not-so-amateur) aerospace engineers taking part.

    I suspect that the recent projects are to the government-sponsored space programs as open source software is to commercial software. True, the fundamental ideas /might/ be different, but the goals are the same: Take something that you can't have general access to, make it your own, and make it better. Then contribute that idea to the general public.

    In an era when people are becoming more and more concerned with manned space flight, I think projects and contests like this are the only way possible to get humanity into the heavens. Governments will always be under pressure to reduce spending; it will only be with enthusiasts that we make it to our proper place in space.

    (This isn't to say, of course, that a non-government-sponsored flight will be the first to Mars. This is simply to say that it will be the space enthusiasts who shed the light on the important facts about space and its wealth of knowledge.)
  • 10 Gs (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Wyatt Earp ( 1029 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:33PM (#6397389)
    Crash rated seats for military helicopters are rated to take 50G down to 20G so I wouldn't think 10G would be a problem to deal with.
  • Re:10 Gs? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zapp ( 201236 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:49PM (#6397471)
    Actually, 10G's is just enough to make a human pass out.

    This is measured not as a sudden impact, but as a multiple of gravity. IE: when you're in a plane and they pull up sharp, you experience maybe 2x gravity.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:49PM (#6397474)
    Governments will always be under pressure to reduce spending

    usbudget.historical.xls [gpo.gov]

    The only years that government spending have gone down(adjusted for inflation) are 1945-48, 1953-56 and 1968-70.

    The pressure they are under is not to reduce spending, it is who gets the handouts.
  • by DaedalusLogic ( 449896 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:58PM (#6397525)
    Visit www.scaled.com and you'll see who's going to win the X-Prize. Burt Rutan designer of the famous Voyager, the plane that made the first non-stop flight around the world.

    This guy has been engineering exceptional aircraft for years. Father of one of the most radical and popular homebuilt aircraft designs ever.

    J.C. has an interesting background and obviously the mind of an engineer, but no one is going to catch up with Rutan's design which resembles the X-15 project of the 1960's.

    If someone at Scaled Composites is reading... Can I have a job? Yeah, like that will happen...
  • Re:10 Gs (Score:2, Interesting)

    by twostar ( 675002 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:59PM (#6397528) Journal
    except that they've only fallen 2000ft, any guesses as to if the test vehicle made it to terminal velocity?
  • Re:10 Gs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thebigmacd ( 545973 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:13PM (#6397603)
    No guess...an answer. The article at space.com shows the craft PARACHUTING to the ground. I'm sure terminal velocity was attained quite quickly. Ewwww...10 Gs upon landing, WITH a parachute.
  • Re:I Smell A Rat (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:15PM (#6397611)
    Naah, the problem is that you don't make sense. The G force when landing is a deceleration. If you were doing 10 metres per second and stopped in one tenth of a second that would be 10 G, and you would possibly feel bruised but would usually survive.


    OTOH, if they could manage ten G going upwards, all they have to do is maintain that for about thirteen minutes and they would be in orbit. But ten G for that long is rather demanding...

  • Late again (Score:3, Interesting)

    by apsmith ( 17989 ) * on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:26PM (#6397659) Homepage
    RocketForge [rocketforge.org] had a link to this posted 3 days ago! So I got to see the video before you guys slashdotted the server :-)
  • Re:10 Gs? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by IvyMike ( 178408 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:40PM (#6397729)

    Wouldn't 10 g's on touchdown cause death by deceleration trauma?

    Bah. During the cold war, the air force did studies using a rocket sled, led by Dr. John P. Stapp [af.mil] that showed that 10Gs is nowhere near fatal. From the page:

    By riding the decelerator sled himself, Dr. Stapp demonstrated that a human can withstand at least 45 G's in the forward position, with adequate harness. This is the highest known G force voluntarily encountered by a human.

    I suppose the "with adequate harness" part can't be stressed enough, but there's nothing automatically fatal about 10Gs.

    Dr. Stapp sounds like a pretty unique guy, and his work led to more survivable crashes in both aircraft and automobiles. I'm giving you One last chance to click on his biography [af.mil], since I really want you to read it. :).

  • Re:10 Gs? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Reziac ( 43301 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:20AM (#6397970) Homepage Journal
    Maxing out at 10 Gs under controlled acceleration and deceleration is a far cry from 10 Gs splat on the ground!

    Also, while controlled accel is not likely to be fatal, it *can* do some damage. I remember reading the story of one of the high-speed rocket-sled experiments, ca.1960 or perhaps a bit before. I can't recall who rode the thing (it wasn't Stapp, tho), but a side effect of the high G was bleeding inside his eyes, so his vision was slightly pinked ever after.

  • Jerk (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Baldrson ( 78598 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:20AM (#6397974) Homepage Journal
    "10Gs" isn't really that informative. In addition to meters per second squared, the key units to report for the landing are meters per second cubed or "jerk [ncku.edu.tw]". That tells you how much destructive load is imparted by the acceleration. If they published the accelerometer output it should be easy to figure.
  • Re:Jerk (Score:2, Interesting)

    by evilWurst ( 96042 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:52AM (#6398119) Journal
    Well, m/s^2 *was* given - that's what gees are. One gravity is, what, 9.8m/s^2? So ten of them would be 980m/s^2. The jerk ratings would be nice, though. If they put up a pretty graph of gees vs time, we'd be able to figure it out.
  • by cheesybagel ( 670288 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @01:05AM (#6398185)
    Rockets got where they are today because some government decided it was neat to have a high-speed, hard to defend, way of killing people.

    The V2 was not done by private enterprise. Or Saturn V. Sorry to bust your ultra-liberal bubble.

    FWIW I agree with you that for space to be explored properly it must ultimately be done by private enterprise. Competition and diversity are key. The launch market should be liberalized and regulations for space launches should be relaxed.

    PS: Giving food for people who do not work is good for everyone unlike what you think. It may not be 100% fair for those who work but it is a compromise. If food was more scarce this would be an issue. Food is abundant in our present Western societies. The fact is people are paid not to produce and food is sent to the trash. Giving some away to improve social stability is good policy.

  • Re:10 Gs? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ncc74656 ( 45571 ) <scott@alfter.us> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @02:58AM (#6398536) Homepage Journal
    Jet fighter pilots can pull 4-5 G's momentarily before blacking out.

    They can go a fair bit higher than that. I saw a show on Discovery Wings not long ago that said Deke Slayton used to pull 9 Gs without a G-suit. (The "without a G-suit" part is a bit extreme, but the "9 Gs" part is kinda on the edge where some people will black out and some won't.) You might want to have a look at this page [nasa.gov].

  • Soyuz = up to 8.1G (Score:4, Interesting)

    by hughk ( 248126 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @03:08AM (#6398565) Journal
    According to this report [spaceref.com], the Soyuz recent TMA-1 that went off track sustained 8.1G. The crew were unharmed. Normally Soyuz, which makes a hard-landing pulls about 3-4G during descent.

    With shock absorbing crash couches and a reclined position, higher vales should be possible. The issue is failed parachute depolyment. Single parachutes may deploy incorrectly or not at all increasing the G load. Normally a cluster of parachutes are used hence the margin needed for error. Without access to the web site, I can't see how many chutes were being used.

  • Re:10 Gs? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by risacher ( 41716 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @10:19AM (#6400007) Homepage
    Back in my flying days, I routinely pulled sustained 6.5 G turns without a G-suit or doing the proper Anti-G Straining Manouver. (AGSM) Some people just have a higher resting G-tolerance than others. Some of my classmates reported routinely "graying out" at as little as 4 G. ("Graying out" is where you progressively lose your peripheral vision.) With a proper G-strain (flexing leg and abdominal muscles to force blood up into cranium), pilots can easily do 6-7 G.

    I only flew with a G suit once, and it was before I went to flight training (I was a back-seat passenger). We pulled 7 Gs on the sortie. The suit squeezed my legs hard enough that it felt like I would have bruises. I didn't black out.

    It does not seem unreasonable at all to me that some trained pilots could pull 9 Gs without a suit.

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